Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[peasy23]

Reports on the radio this morning that Boris will announce today that cinemas, museums and art galleries in England can open from 4th July.

[Jacksgranda]

9 hours ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

10 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Misses the point as ever.

Aye. I've only been teaching 12 or so years maybe and I've taught Standard Grade and Higher/Advanced, then Int 1, Int 2 and Higher Still/Advanced then National 3/4/5 and CfE Higher/Advanced. And that's just the senior school. We've also went from 5 to 14 to CfE with a lot of change even within CfE for the juniors. All at the same time the parents have increased demands, budgets have been cut, staff shortages abound and support services for pupils with learning or behaviour problems have been decimated (Todd was asking upthread about what do you do with someone who just won't take a telling - in the past you might have excluded or sent them to an off-campus facility where there are specialists and a police liaison etc. but guess what? Cut. So we have to "internally exclude" them instead which is a joke as all it does is make them miss more classes while taking a member of staff out thr picture). Yes, other industries and sectors have seen change, but is there the same level of public scrutiny? I'd encourage anyone who thinks it's a cushy number to try it - even arrange a visit to a local school to see what the job is like (many schools will allow that to former pupils etc if they are considering going to teacher training college) - some of you might even enjoy it.

I don't understand half of that, some of it sounds like change for changes sake, surely you need time for these changes to bed in to see if they actually work? Or are all these (bolded bits) just cosmetic changes?

I never fancied being a teacher - being a university lecturer was far more appealing to me (not that I was one) - I was at a secondary school where the ability and aptitude of pupils was quite high and most of us were willing to learn and fairly easily disciplined, even allowing for the "stupid" ones who were fee paying who probably brought down the ability part of the equation (as opposed to the capable ones who were fee paying), but even then the class sizes were big (30 or so) and the range of abilities was quite big, too. It must have been a bit stressful trying to teach and control 30 boys (nearer 180 over the course of the school day, I suppose), and even when I was a pupil being a teacher wasn't high on my list of potential jobs.

What it was like being a teacher in a school where the pupils didn't want to learn and were just putting in time to leave and get a job (plentiful back then "open the school doors and let the kids walk across to the shipyards/mines/trawlers/car factories") I don't know.

I've never subscribed to this "eight weeks holiday" nonsense, and even if teachers do get 8 weeks holiday (in the summer), so what? It's part of their work conditions.

[Steven W]

Chap from Belfast University on Sky News this morning. They've been doing studies into children and Covid-19.

Their results will be out "any day now", (they've been sent to a journal for publication) but he hinted several times that children don't spread it in the same way as adults. That allied with the fact they seemingly almost never suffer badly from it, should you would think have an enormous bearing on how we proceed with this. It should also be remebered that a Swiss study a couple of months ago found the same thing.

Meanwhile Swinney will take the stage today and deliver meaningless drivel, and our kids will go back to school in August on a part time basis for an indefinite peroid of time.

I can't find the story on Sky News, but the Irish Times are running it;

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/06/23/news/queen-s-university-belfast-team-lead-major-trial-to-discover-children-s-immunity-to-coronavirus-1982144/

I should add I'm a little puzzled by the "results any day now" the man on Sky said, given the research is still on going. But say it he did.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Steven W

[Wee Bully]

Chap from Belfast University on Sky News this morning. They've been doing studies into children and Covid-19.
Their results will be out "any day now", (they've been sent to a journal for publication) but he hinted several times that children don't spread it in the same way as adults. That allied with the fact they seemingly almost never suffer badly from it, should you would think have an enormous bearing on how we proceed with this. It should also be remebered that a Swiss study a couple of months ago found the same thing.
Meanwhile Swinney will take the stage today and deliver meaningless drivel, and our kids will go back to school in August on a part time basis for an indefinite peroid of time.
I can't find the story on Sky News, but the Irish Times are running it;
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/06/23/news/queen-s-university-belfast-team-lead-major-trial-to-discover-children-s-immunity-to-coronavirus-1982144/
I should add I'm a little puzzled by the "results any day now" the man on Sky said, given the research is still on going. But say it he did.

According to the article, we are 8 weeks into a 6 month study - so 4 months to go.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

No one is saying it's a "cushy number". There seems to be a disproportionate number of teachers who think their job is impossible and ever changing, while everyone else is sitting with their feet up living an easy life and working 10 hours a week.

I didn't say that though - the conversation was about people thinking teaching was easy - it isn't.

Anyone thinking of doing the job because the pay is relatively good and the holidays is doing it fot all the wrong reasons.

Yes - I know other jobs are just as challenging - but that wasn't the discussion.

[dirty dingus]

35 minutes ago, peasy23 said:

Reports on the radio this morning that Boris will announce today that cinemas, museums and art galleries in England can open from 4th July.

Listened to that, seemed to be saying if you want to go to the pub on July 4th you have to pre book as table service only and that there will be a get the virus don't blame us disclaimer. I think beer gardens will do good trade, the public they had on giving their views, a lot seemed apprehensive about being indoors in these places. I know a few boozers in Inverclyde are looking to get permits for areas outside the boozers to set up tables and chairs like the did when the tall ships visited.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Chap from Belfast University on Sky News this morning. They've been doing studies into children and Covid-19.
Their results will be out "any day now", (they've been sent to a journal for publication) but he hinted several times that children don't spread it in the same way as adults. That allied with the fact they seemingly almost never suffer badly from it, should you would think have an enormous bearing on how we proceed with this. It should also be remebered that a Swiss study a couple of months ago found the same thing.
Meanwhile Swinney will take the stage today and deliver meaningless drivel, and our kids will go back to school in August on a part time basis for an indefinite peroid of time.
I can't find the story on Sky News, but the Irish Times are running it;
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/06/23/news/queen-s-university-belfast-team-lead-major-trial-to-discover-children-s-immunity-to-coronavirus-1982144/
I should add I'm a little puzzled by the "results any day now" the man on Sky said, given the research is still on going. But say it he did.

Most of the scientific evidence is inconclusive so far - even this one - it hasn't been completed yet.

[Jacksgranda]

40 minutes ago, Steven W said:

Chap from Belfast University on Sky News this morning. They've been doing studies into children and Covid-19.

Their results will be out "any day now", (they've been sent to a journal for publication) but he hinted several times that children don't spread it in the same way as adults. That allied with the fact they seemingly almost never suffer badly from it, should you would think have an enormous bearing on how we proceed with this. It should also be remebered that a Swiss study a couple of months ago found the same thing.

Meanwhile Swinney will take the stage today and deliver meaningless drivel, and our kids will go back to school in August on a part time basis for an indefinite peroid of time.

I can't find the story on Sky News, but the Irish Times are running it;

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/06/23/news/queen-s-university-belfast-team-lead-major-trial-to-discover-children-s-immunity-to-coronavirus-1982144/

I should add I'm a little puzzled by the "results any day now" the man on Sky said, given the research is still on going. But say it he did.

"Preliminary results", maybe?

[Steven W]

26 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

49 minutes ago, Steven W said:

Chap from Belfast University on Sky News this morning. They've been doing studies into children and Covid-19.
Their results will be out "any day now", (they've been sent to a journal for publication) but he hinted several times that children don't spread it in the same way as adults. That allied with the fact they seemingly almost never suffer badly from it, should you would think have an enormous bearing on how we proceed with this. It should also be remebered that a Swiss study a couple of months ago found the same thing.
Meanwhile Swinney will take the stage today and deliver meaningless drivel, and our kids will go back to school in August on a part time basis for an indefinite peroid of time.
I can't find the story on Sky News, but the Irish Times are running it;
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/06/23/news/queen-s-university-belfast-team-lead-major-trial-to-discover-children-s-immunity-to-coronavirus-1982144/
I should add I'm a little puzzled by the "results any day now" the man on Sky said, given the research is still on going. But say it he did.

Most of the scientific evidence is inconclusive so far - even this one - it hasn't been completed yet.

I've merely repeated what I saw on TV this morning and posted a link to a report on it from the Irish Times. I'm guessing you never saw the piece this morning, but chap mentioned several times that he didn't think that children were able to spread the virus. 

As I said, this allied with the Swiss study is of significance I'd have thought. You seem to be quite dismissive of it.

[Steven W]

55 minutes ago, Wee Bully said:

According to the article, we are 8 weeks into a 6 month study - so 4 months to go.

Well like I said, I'm puzzled as to why he said what he said. But he did say that the results (as Jacksgranda says possibly premliminary results?) would be out "any day now".

[madwullie]

A few schools have seen outbreaks and had to close since opening up. Not sure if it's the kids causing the spread, or the adults employed there. Definitely needs to be some caution anyway. 

 

 

[Musketeer Gripweed]

Does anyone actually believe the Government are still listening to the scientists and the medical experts at this point, like they claim they are doing?

[madwullie]

Bets for what Swinney is going to say today? 

I reckon he'll go down the We would like to open normally and we're not ruling that out, but there is a high chance we won't be able to so that needs to be planned for. 

It's easier to plan for 2m etc and open normally than open normally then try to change. That's basically what we have right now and everyone agrees that's a shit show

[madwullie]

3 minutes ago, Musketeer Gripweed said:

Does anyone actually believe the Government are still listening to the scientists and the medical experts at this point, like they claim they are doing?

I feel like NS is, especially because people like Devi Widhrir keep writing articles that broadly sound like what she says. 

Down south no, I think they're just going as quick as they can. Cinemas sound like a terrible idea for eg. and the fact that scientists have become a rarer sight at the briefings tells a story imo

Edited June 23, 2020 by madwullie

[Steven W]

9 minutes ago, madwullie said:

Bets for what Swinney is going to say today? 

I reckon he'll go down the We would like to open normally and we're not ruling that out, but there is a high chance we won't be able to so that needs to be planned for. 

It's easier to plan for 2m etc and open normally than open normally then try to change. That's basically what we have right now and everyone agrees that's a shit show

That'll be about it.

He'll pad it out with ten minutes of waffle, but the nuts and bolts of it will be no change from where we are at the minute.

[mizfit]

I feel like NS is, especially because people like Devi Widhrir keep writing articles that broadly sound like what she says. 
Down south no, I think they're just going as quick as they can. Cinemas sound like a terrible idea for eg. and the fact that scientists have become a rarer sight at the briefings tells a story imo

Jennie Harries yesterday basically telling people to stop being scared and return to work said it all. She’s done and said whatever has been expected of her.

[super_carson]

13 minutes ago, madwullie said:

Bets for what Swinney is going to say today? 

I reckon he'll go down the We would like to open normally and we're not ruling that out, but there is a high chance we won't be able to so that needs to be planned for. 

It's easier to plan for 2m etc and open normally than open normally then try to change. That's basically what we have right now and everyone agrees that's a shit show

It's going to be all fart and no poo.  

[madwullie]

2 minutes ago, mizfit said:

 

 

Jennie Harries yesterday basically telling people to stop being scared and return to work said it all. She’s done and said whatever has been expected of her.

 

 

Yeah, her science has very coincidentally been in perfect lockstep with whatever message the tories are trying to get out at that moment  

They're either visionaries or lying

[Salvo Montalbano]

I don't understand half of that, some of it sounds like change for changes sake, surely you need time for these changes to bed in to see if they actually work? Or are all these (bolded bits) just cosmetic changes?

Without straying even further from the topic, I'll just quickly reply to this and I'll spoiler tag it so people can skip it.

It's fair to say Standard Grade needed refreshed (in the late 90s/early 2000s, SG Physics still had bits about how a black and white TV worked) but many teachers feel SG was a good qualification. Everyone found their level, Foundation, General or Credit and there was a decent structure in place. However there was the problem of pupils who got a Foundation or General finding their level in a subject capped as they couldn't cope with Highers. Intermediate 1 and 2 were partly brought in to try and offer people a progression in a subject (you could do Int 1 OR SG in a subject then do Int 2 before Higher as a "bridge" if you found the jump too high) but sadly there were loads of problems. The jump from Int 1 to Int 2 was far too high in some subjects, in some cases just as bad if not worse than the jump from SG to Higher. The qualification was also inequitable - Int 2 Physics was a lot harder than SG but in Maths it was the other way round, meaning the lower ability kids actually did Int 2 rather than SG and had to then make a huge leap if they wanted to do Higher Maths. It also led to some schools putting lots of Int 1 classes together of poorer ability or pupils with behaviour issues which meant they became a dumping ground. I think Intermediates were quite unpopular and the only benefit people saw was the introduction of Access level qualifications below that which meant that pupils who really struggled or were in Departments of Additional Support at least gained some qualifications. The Nationals are a bit of a hybrid but even in their short lifespan there have been changes in terms of internal assessment (which the government like as its cheaper than external assessment) and some course content. There has also been a shift towards National Progression Awards in some schools which means yet more course development and changing of timetable structures etc. In the Junior School, 5-14 was OK in theory but you're never going to get all Primary Schools covering all the experiences and outcomes especially in subject specific areas such as Science and Languages Languages which means a lot if S1 and S2 was covering work that should have been done in Primary. IMO, CfE has almost made this worse as a lot of Primary schools do more work on confidence and responsibility and the 4 "capactities" rather than the basics of Maths, English, Science and other core subjects. So the newer S1 and 2 pupils may be confident and know how to make a Power Point up and know about rights and so on (which are all good things, don't get me wrong) but can't count or read or write or are able to study or plan or work on their own or concentrate on one piece of work for more than about 10 minutes. On top of all the curricular things, behaviour management has totally changed to the idea of restorative practices (which doesn't work for a lot of pupils, but - I kid you not, when queried about one aspect of it at a meeting on my school, a depute said "Well, if you look at the study done in the Canadian Prison Service..." As you can imagine you could have heard the guffaws from down the corridor) and schools are almost forbidden from excluding pupils unless they do something so terrible they have no choice. So yeah, to answer your point, a lot of changes have been needed but they haven't always been managed in the best way and the pace of change has been very challenging with a new course to be written and assessed almost every year or 2 years for at least a decade.

 

[Dunning1874]

18 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

Something I hadn't even considered until now is the 7 day average % of positive tests.

We've got a full week of new style results in, and that average is now 0.7%

That seems fairly significant as it is lower now than it was 3 weeks ago.

I do wonder slightly, though, what is driving 22,500 new people (ie people never tested before) over the last 7 days to get tested, for only around 150 to be positive? I can't imagine over 22,250 people over the last 7 days have developed covid-19 symptoms that subsequently turned out not to be Covid-19. Are people just booking tests for themselves because they can, rather than because they think they might need one?

While there are no doubt some hypochondriacs booking tests for no reason, it's entirely feasible that 20000 people have had a cough or sore throat over the course of a week and decided to be tested to be sure it is just a normal cough. That seems entirely reasonable.