Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Melanius Mullarkey]

I’m sure it’s all fine.

[mizfit]

Should we be worried again?
 
In Australia, the premier of Victoria, Daniel Andrews, has announced a return of coronavirus restrictions after the state recorded 25 new cases in 24 hours, the biggest increase in two months.
The number of guests people can have in their home will be reduced to five, and restaurants and pubs will have to remain at the limit of 20 guests until at least 12 July.
Andrews said he was “disappointed” by the behaviour reported by health authorities, with large gatherings held at homes between families and friends despite orders to isolate.
“It is unacceptable that families anywhere in our state can, just because they want this to be over, pretend that it is. It is not over,” he said.
South Korea has reported its largest 24-hour increase in confirmed coronavirus cases in about three weeks, with 67 additional cases raising the country’s total to 12,373, with 280 deaths. Officials said 31 of the new cases came from outside the country and the other 36 were locally transmitted.
The director general of the World Health Organization, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said: “The world is in a new and dangerous phase” of the pandemic as cases globally accelerate. “The virus is still spreading fast, it is still deadly, and most people are still susceptible.” On Thursday, 150,000 new cases were reported – the highest in a single day, with nearly half of those in the Americas.

Sturgeon must respond.

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, beefybake said:

From the bits and pieces I've read, general impression is that insurance companies were moving heaven and earth to avoid paying out on anything

connected to coronavirus.

Really? That's unusual for insurance companies...

[Todd_is_God]

53 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

So you're a fair weather friend.

You have only two choices. Independence or in a one-sided union. So make your mind up.

I wasn't the other day, but I am now calling you a cult follower.

Fucking hell.

[Frankie S]

15 hours ago, virginton said:

You can't remove ineffective non-entities while you've got ~500 spots to fill at Westminster, Holyrood and council level. There's nowhere near that amount of competence in all the Scottish political parties put together and even the post-2014 surge took in far more whamees than it did legitimately fresh talent. It should be no surprise that a party that has dominated every level of politics for over a decade is in need of a refresh. It's why every party loses power eventually. 

I’ve been pro Indy and voted SNP for years, but surveying the ‘talent’ across the SNP’s Holyrood contingent is a painful business, and their collective lack of competence has been thrown into stark relief by the Covid crisis. I’m not sure I’d put Jeane Freeman in charge of the cake stall at a school open day, let alone make her Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport.

TBF, same goes for the Westminster govt. Sunak aside, who I think has done a decent job under the circumstances, the Conservative cabinet seem to have been assembled purely on the basis of their compliance with the Brexit project: a bunch of nodding dogs; a ministry of none of the talents. I’m still reeling from the revelation that our Foreign Secretary thought taking the knee came from Game of F***ing Thrones. Raab, Patel, Williamson, Hancock, Shapps.....it’s a dismal list of nonentities promoted well beyond their abilities. 

There’s been a vacuum of talent and lack of leadership on both sides of the border during this crisis.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Frankie S

[coprolite]

22 minutes ago, Snafu said:

Then there's -

The £55.2billion borrowed last month was the highest since records began in 1993. The total government debt of £1.95trillion now exceeds Gross Domestic Product for the first time in more than 50 years. Chancellor Rishi Sunak said yesterday’s figures confirmed the severe impact of coronavirus on public finances.

He said: “The best way to restore our public finances to a more sustainable footing is to safely reopen our economy so people can return to work.”

Mr Sunak added: “We’ve set out our plan to do this in a gradual and safe fashion, including reopening high streets across the country this week, as we kick-start our economic recovery.”

Income from tax, National Insurance andVAT all dived in May amid the coronavirus lockdown as spending on support measures soared.

This is the first time debt has been larger than the size of the economy since 1963, though it hit 258 per cent in 1946-47.

https://todaynewspost.com/news/business-news/coronavirus-crisis-uks-2tr-debt-is-now-bigger-than-the-economy-itself-city-business-finance/

I expect we'll see more of this ill informed/disingenuous framing from the press. 

You'd be forgiven for concluding that the increase in the debt is the problem here. Deby exceeds GDP mainly because GDP has fallen by more than the rise in the debt. 

That's the real story. We need more government spending not less. 

Ironically and unusually the tory quoted does seem to get that. 

Edited June 20, 2020 by coprolite
Shite maths

[Juanhourjoe]

58 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Border control is reserved.  

 

 

Quarantine is also a reserved matter.

 

 

 

Do you think those steps should have been taken, if those powers weren't reserved? And nothing was stopping Sturgeon from at least asking for the UK government to implement it.

Also it's possibly still relevant in the event of a big second wave coming. We should be more prepared for that outcome.

[coprolite]

2 minutes ago, Snafu said:

We should still sell Wales to the Chinese regardless.

It would be a good move for Wales but wouldn't raise much more than a church jumble sale. 

[Wee Willie]

19 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

Which is the reason they can do whatever the f**k they want, as well or as badly as they want, with absolutely no risk.

That you don't seem to understand how this could possibly be a bit of a problem is incredible.

I support Scottish Independence as in the current landscape I believe it is what is best for Scotland. If that was to change then so would my views on it.

Supporting anything political "whatever the cost" is daft.

 

17 hours ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

Given that the only other landscape on offer is continuing with Westminster I'd be interested to hear what Westminster might do or offer to change your mind from Scotland having all the levers of an independent country.

Has he replied yet?

1 hour ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

Not yet, Wee Willie. 

 

10 minutes ago, Frankie S said:

I’ve been pro Indy and voted SNP for years, but surveying the ‘talent’ across the SNP’s Holyrood contingent is a painful business, and their collective lack of competence has been thrown into stark relief by the Covid crisis. I’m not sure I’d put Jeane Freeman in charge of the cake stall at a school open day, let alone make her Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport.

TBF, same goes for the Westminster govt. Sunak aside, who I think has done a decent job under the circumstances, the Conservative cabinet seem to have been assembled purely on the basis of their compliance with the Brexit project: a bunch of nodding dogs; a ministry of none of the talents. I’m still reeling from the revelation that our Foreign Secretary thought taking the knee came from Game of F***ing Thrones. Raab, Patel, Williamson, Hancock, Shapps.....it’s a dismal list of nonentities promoted well beyond their abilities. 

There’s been a vacuum of talent and lack of leadership on both sides of the border during this crisis.

It's great to have hindsight. Do you think Carlaw or Leonard or Rennie would have handled the pandemic better?

If you get rid of the SNP government then you are handing Scotland back to be governed by Westminster

6 minutes ago, Juanhourjoe said:

Do you think those steps should have been taken, if those powers weren't reserved? And nothing was stopping Sturgeon from at least asking for the UK government to implement it.

Also it's possibly still relevant in the event of a big second wave coming. We should be more prepared for that outcome.

Are you really that naive. Do you really think BoJo would agree to anything NS asked?

[Wee Willie]

1 hour ago, Wee Willie said:

So you're a fair weather friend.

You have only two choices. Independence or in a one-sided union. So make your mind up.

 

 

 

48 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I wasn't the other day, but I am now calling you a cult follower.

Fucking hell.

Am I wrong? You only have two choices.

[Marshmallo]

If health and caution is the main concern, has anyone been able to provide a logical explanation as to why we are lifting restrictions on people who are shielding?

I don't understand how it can be safer for my grandparents with every underlying condition from Alzheimers to COPD to heart problems to go out and play a round of golf, than me having two mates round to sit in opposite corners of my living room?

Folk in the Western Isles where there has been no new cases since the start of May and 7 cases in total can't sit at a picnic table to have a pint, but someone in Glasgow in the highest risk groups can have 8 people in their garden drinking cans? 

At this stage I don't think we should be having blanket restrictions across society in Scotland. Target it at certain groups or localised areas if we see spikes.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Then there's -
The £55.2billion borrowed last month was the highest since records began in 1993. The total government debt of £1.95trillion now exceeds Gross Domestic Product for the first time in more than 50 years. Chancellor Rishi Sunak said yesterday’s figures confirmed the severe impact of coronavirus on public finances.
He said: “The best way to restore our public finances to a more sustainable footing is to safely reopen our economy so people can return to work.”
Mr Sunak added: “We’ve set out our plan to do this in a gradual and safe fashion, including reopening high streets across the country this week, as we kick-start our economic recovery.”
Income from tax, National Insurance andVAT all dived in May amid the coronavirus lockdown as spending on support measures soared.
This is the first time debt has been larger than the size of the economy since 1963, though it hit 258 per cent in 1946-47.
https://todaynewspost.com/news/business-news/coronavirus-crisis-uks-2tr-debt-is-now-bigger-than-the-economy-itself-city-business-finance/

The total extra amount borrowed coud be well over £500 billion once this is over.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Do you think those steps should have been taken, if those powers weren't reserved? And nothing was stopping Sturgeon from at least asking for the UK government to implement it.
Also it's possibly still relevant in the event of a big second wave coming. We should be more prepared for that outcome.

The only way those steps would happen is if there was independence - no UK government is going to relinquish border control to the devolved governments.

[D.A.F.C]

2 hours ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

Can someone point me to the thread written by P&Bs experts on what should have happened during this unprecedented pandemic and what should we doing going forward even though we still have little information on the long term effects of a 6 month old virus?

The plan was to continue as normal, tell the public we were prepared but at the same time not even bother attending COBR meetings. 
Next step was to ignore scientific advice from Italy and China and tell our scientists to go along with some bizarre Nazi type extermination experiment that went against everything the rest of the world advised.

Then when we realised that 2 million deaths might be a bit unpalatable we decided to completely reverse previous decisions and contradict ourselves completely by banning mass gatherings but at the same time shaking hands with coronavirus victims was ok.

Now we had to clear out the hospitals depriving sick people of care and we then built several hospitals that would become unused costing millions. The really clever bit was to move infected pensioners back into homes and killing thousands as a result.

But, we contained the virus!

Remember to stand and clap for the people we flung under the bus with lack of PPE and equipment.

Please go outside, but don’t go outside. Do spend money but only do it in a safe way in an unsafe environment. We lowered the threat level because hospital admissions are still high and the virus is still in general circulation.

Im pretty sure p&b couldn’t do worse if they tried tbh.

[Todd_is_God]

19 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

Am I wrong? You only have two choices.

What chance do you, or the SNP, have of converting NO voters, when you have a go at YES voters for not being quite yes enough for your liking, or pointing out that the SNP are coasting?

[Juanhourjoe]

31 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

 

Has he replied yet?

 

It's great to have hindsight. Do you think Carlaw or Leonard or Rennie would have handled the pandemic better?

If you get rid of the SNP government then you are handing Scotland back to be governed by Westminster

Are you really that naive. Do you really think BoJo would agree to anything NS asked?

No. But if it was ideally the best option. She should have the duty to at least ask. And would face less criticism from the Scottish electorate, to be seen to try her best to protect people.

[vikingTON]

2 hours ago, Paco said:

 

I’m at bit of a loss seeing the procession of pubs/restaurants/bars whining they’ll go bust if the government don’t relax the 2m rule, versus the procession of pubs/restaurants/bars whining they’re not allowed to open in Scotland under the very same 2m rule.

 

The latter are venues that have significant outdoor spaces attached - for example,  the West Brewery at Glasgow Green and so planned for a Phase 2 opening; the former do not have sufficient outdoor space to operate but still require their Phase 3 opening/equivalent in England to be conducted under a sane set of rules instead of the current and useless OCD nonsense. Just about every other sector is in the same boat on that point. 

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, coprolite said:

I expect we'll see more of this ill informed/disingenuous framing from the press. 

You'd be forgiven for concluding that the increase in the debt is the problem here. Deby exceeds GDP mainly because GDP has fallen by more than the rise in the debt. 

That's the real story. We need more government spending not less. 

Ironically and unusually the tory quoted does seem to get that. 

We don't need more government spending to keep people in the house and businesses in situ long after the purpose of the lockdown has been achieved though. Next to none of this extra borrowing is actually going to important tasks like shoring up the social care sector, nor will it deal with a collapse in employment during the autumn exacerbated by the ongoing restrictions. It'll simply give opposition parties in Westminster and the devolved governments far less scope to make progressive arguments for change once the 'credit card has been maxed out' again. We've literally just seen this trick play out over the past decade.

Edited June 20, 2020 by vikingTON

[Thereisalight..]

I thInk the 2 metre rule will be relaxed in England before they start phase 3 in early July. That’s when hairdressers/beauticians are allowed to open back up and it would be an absolute mockery to still have the 2m rule in place whilst allowing close proximity work like hairdressing to happen. The same will happen here when the health and beauty industry is giving the green light to reopen 

[19QOS19]

I thInk the 2 metre rule will be relaxed in England before they start phase 3 in early July. That’s when hairdressers/beauticians are allowed to open back up and it would be an absolute mockery to still have the 2m rule in place whilst allowing close proximity work like hairdressing to happen. The same will happen here when the health and beauty industry is giving the green light to reopen 

It can be done