Boghead ranter Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 5 hours ago, 101 said: No one has ever complained about my Dunfermline cup. Wow, Dunfermline and cup in the same sentence 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_carson Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 She was talking about lockdown until we were close to zero covid only yesterday. Not sure how that is going to be achieved with schools open. Because she's pandering to the masses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theroadlesstravelled Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Bairnardo said: Actual adults having a problem with a colour I work with a guy who won't sit on green seats etc. He is in his 40s. Minter. A lot of **** won’t eat vegetables cause they are green. And that’s why they look like mutants. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thereisalight.. Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 51 minutes ago, Marshmallo said: She's definitely now tweeting with the sole intention of winding up VT Aye keep a distance, dont party, stay at home, exist only to work, but throw open the schools again! wonder why she wasnt as keen to want the pubs, hairdressers and gyms open 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 This thread has turned into a parody of itself now. It's extremely post modern. Good work lads 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: Like what happened in 1918 with the Spanish flu? It all depends on how long immunity lasts after people have had it or been vaccinated. Nobody knows for sure yet on that but saw a study yesterday that suggested it was still holding up strong in New York after eight months. The ideas of a constantly evolving virus and perpetual vaccination programs are already being seeded by the media. We have been addressing this as a practical problem and now it's becoming clear that it's a political issue. Ending homelessness is on the face of it a simple practical problem which is in reality a complex political issue. As long as lockdown benefits elites (and their wealth has shot up) it is unlikely to end. Edited January 9, 2021 by Detournement 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven W Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 18 minutes ago, Detournement said: The ideas of a constantly evolving virus and perpetual vaccination programs are already being seeded by the media. We have been addressing this as a practical problem and now it's becoming clear that it's a political issue. Ending homelessness is on the face of it a simple practical problem which is in reality a complex political issue. As long as lockdown benefits elites (and their wealth has shot up) it is unlikely to end. There may well be several 'elites' whose wealth has benefited from lockdown, but surely on the whole, everyone on this planet is looking forward to the day this nightmare is over? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_dog Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) With the Sridhar article, and 'we can just get back to normal once vulnerable are vaccinated', why do you think people like Whitty are already raising the topic of having more restrictions next winter? Until we discover the vaccines stop transmission, we're going to need at least some form of restrictions until a significant number of people are vaccinated. If we just do the wishful thinking bit of returning to normal once vulnerable are vaccinated, we may just end up stacking up more problems for next winter. The vaccination we're going to use most (AstraZeneca) has a 90% rate at best (or between 62-90%), so there will still be people who become seriously ill and die even once vaccinated. Plus, we don't even know if the immunity will last for an extended period, so the vaccine is not some silver bullet. Unless, you get the numbers so low that hardly anyone has it and therefore spreading it isn't such a huge issue as any small outbreaks can be contained. The less than 100% efficacy of the vaccine won't matter so much as since there is hardly anyone spreading it, and even if the immunity does start to fade, there won't be the same danger of the virus running out of control like it has done twice already. Then you can more quickly have less and less restrictions on everyday life, you can actually meet people for a drink and go to the football. The economy will improve, and the one main restriction left will be around travel, but even that could work with testing/quarantine. Herd immunity through vaccination needs the vast majority of the population to be vaccinated, and it also needs that immunity to last. So do we wait a couple of years while we reach the required levels of vaccination in the UK, and with the hope the immunity lasts? Or do we do what people like Sridhar & Bauld are talking about and try and get ourselves in a position like Australia in the short term, with the vaccination being the long term end game? Edited to add: and as for laughing at aiming for Australia as an end game. Well as was pointed out by some doctor on Question Time a couple of days ago, we had more deaths recorded in a single day at over 1000, than they've had in the entire pandemic in Australia. So that sounds like a fucking terrific endgame in comparison. Anyway, TLDR; I don't think you can just say Sridhar's article is utter pish and dismiss it out of hand. I get the point she and her ilk are public health advisors so that's there focus, but I do think she has a point that the economy is fucked because of the virus, and lockdowns are just a consequence of that. And what she is pursuing is a possible way out of it, rather than the constant cycle of infection waves and lockdowns. Edited January 9, 2021 by s_dog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) Why would immunity not last? This has been an utterly ridiculous red herring since the 'oh but you might get Covid again!!!111!!!' days of the spring which - surprise! - has not actually been happening. Once the immune system is given exposure with the correct dosage then it is ready to effortlessly deal with it again in the future. We would not exist as a species if it magically forgot how to deal with a virus - never mind having being given a scientifically designed dose to acquire immunity in the first place. NB: Quote she has a point that the economy is fucked because of the virus, and lockdowns are just a consequence of that. And what she is pursuing is a possible way out of it A set of indefinite restrictions on everyday life whenever somebody gets a glorified sniffle again and the complete destruction of entire sectors of the economy - all hinging on the myth that a country of 65 million people can be magically isolated from an adjacent continent with which it has been highly integrated for decades - is not a 'way out' at all. It is an utterly pointless cul-de-sac. Edited January 9, 2021 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 When I worked in Ibrox we had blue slips for the Rangers match betting and green slips for weekend coupons which was never normally an issue apart from one guy in his 60s with a cowboy hat on who had a massive crisis of identity over having to accept a line that was in that colour. He eventually accepted it after kick off and shoved it as far into his pocket as it could go presumably so none of his pals knew he'd chosen a potential 78 quid over his identity as a staunch Orangeman. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juanhourjoe Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, virginton said: Why would immunity not last? This has been an utterly ridiculous red herring since the 'oh but you might get Covid again!!!111!!!' days of the spring which - surprise! - has not actually been happening. Once the immune system is given exposure with the correct dosage then it is ready to effortlessly deal with it again in the future. We would not exist as a species if it magically forgot how to deal with a virus - never mind having being given a scientifically designed dose to acquire immunity in the first place. NB: A set of indefinite restrictions on everyday life whenever somebody gets a glorified sniffle again and the complete destruction of entire sectors of the economy - all hinging on the myth that a country of 65 million people can be magically isolated from an adjacent continent with which it has been highly integrated for decades - is not a 'way out' at all. It is an utterly pointless cul-de-sac. Loada shite 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 I'm not quoting all of that but how would you define "a significant number of people" being vaccinated? And what sort of restrictions are in place until we hit that figure? Can we ease off some things till we hit that number? I appreciate the situation is fluid but given we now have a vaccine it would be good to see triggers and thresholds for lifting restrictions at varying levels. It would help morale and potentially increase compliance if people can see targets to try and hit (eg less than 50% ICU capacity and we can drop to tier 3). Saying "we might have restrictions next winter" isn't helping anybody - it just creates a greater culture of fear in some people and a "f**k this, might as well do what I want just now then" amongst others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) Quote Edited to add: and as for laughing at aiming for Australia as an end game. Well as was pointed out by some doctor on Question Time a couple of days ago, we had more deaths recorded in a single day at over 1000, than they've had in the entire pandemic in Australia. So that sounds like a fucking terrific endgame in comparison. Given that there are 60k confirmed cases per day in the UK and the R rate is still above 1, it would take fucking forever to get anywhere near your zero Covid fantasy though. England didn't manage to get close to eradication at the regional level at any point in 2020 while still having restrictions in place. There's neither the economic means nor the societal will to pursue this utterly ruinous path on some fatuous 'just in case' basis. Edited January 9, 2021 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 I really don't understand the current obsession with "bUt dOeS iT sToP tRaNsMisSiOn?" Does the flu vaccine prevent transmission? If it doesn't, this whole point can be discarded into the bin, and anyone who brings it up ignored immediately. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_dog Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, virginton said: Why would immunity not last? This has been an utterly ridiculous red herring since the 'oh but you might get Covid again!!!111!!!' days of the spring which - surprise! - has not actually been happening. Once the immune system is given exposure with the correct dosage then it is ready to effortlessly deal with it again in the future. We would not exist as a species if it magically forgot how to deal with a virus - never mind having being given a scientifically designed dose to acquire immunity in the first place. NB: A set of indefinite restrictions on everyday life whenever somebody gets a glorified sniffle again and the complete destruction of entire sectors of the economy - all hinging on the myth that a country of 65 million people can be magically isolated from an adjacent continent with which it has been highly integrated for decades - is not a 'way out' at all. It is an utterly pointless cul-de-sac. There are people who've had Covid more than once already? Was just reading about someone who'd had it in March with only mild symptoms but this time she'd ended up in hospital. You may well be right about immunity lasting, I hope so (I suppose you could be right about one thing, even you or that Todd guy might manage it once!). It is a possible way out, and one that might be quicker and less harmful to what we've being doing up to now. I know you are completely blinded by your glorified sniffle nonsense, but a short, local lockdown or there always being the danger of things getting out of control and a long, national lockdown? I think I'd prefer the first one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, virginton said: Once the immune system is given exposure with the correct dosage then it is ready to effortlessly deal with it again in the future. If only these pesky viruses would stay the same, as anyone who's had more than one cold or flu episode in their lives would say. It's likely a covid vaccine will be added to the flu cocktail jag rolled out every year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Just now, s_dog said: It is a possible way out, and one that might be quicker and less harmful to what we've being doing up to now. I know you are completely blinded by your glorified sniffle nonsense, but a short, local lockdown or there always being the danger of things getting out of control and a long, national lockdown? I think I'd prefer the first one. Please show your working as to how a virus that currently produces 60k confirmed cases per day - with the ONS estimating far more than that - would be reduced to 0 cases per day through a "short, local lockdown". Because other than picking a magical 0.0 R rate, that's not happening. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_dog Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, Marshmallo said: I'm not quoting all of that but how would you define "a significant number of people" being vaccinated? And what sort of restrictions are in place until we hit that figure? Can we ease off some things till we hit that number? I appreciate the situation is fluid but given we now have a vaccine it would be good to see triggers and thresholds for lifting restrictions at varying levels. It would help morale and potentially increase compliance if people can see targets to try and hit (eg less than 50% ICU capacity and we can drop to tier 3). I don't know, don't they talk about something like 70-80% for herd immunity, so maybe something similar? As for triggers and thresholds, yeah I can see the point about it being something to lift morale, but a lot of what happens also depends how many people actually take the vaccine when offered it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_dog Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, virginton said: Given that there are 60k confirmed cases per day in the UK and the R rate is still above 1, it would take fucking forever to get anywhere near your zero Covid fantasy though. England didn't manage to get close to eradication at the regional level at any point in 2020 while still having restrictions in place. There's neither the economic means nor the societal will to pursue this utterly ruinous path on some fatuous 'just in case' basis. The reason England didn't manage it was because they eased up too quickly on restrictions while their numbers where still too high. We had similar R rates in Scotland at times, but we managed it? To be fair, you are right in that its got so out of control now that it'll be difficult to get numbers low enough. But if it wasn't for the fact that we did such a shit job of it in the UK as a whole, and that we had a government who encouraged everyone to go and eat out to help out, and there weren't so many people pushing anti-mask or covid denial, we might not be in the pathetic state we are right now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, welshbairn said: If only these pesky viruses would stay the same, as anyone who's had more than one cold or flu episode in their lives would say. It's likely a covid vaccine will be added to the flu cocktail jag rolled out every year. Here was me thinking that we weren't supposed to compare Covid to the flu. And I see that you've qualified as an epidemiologist recently as well, given your braying hostility towards laymen making predictions about the pandemic. The cold is not caused by a single virus but hundreds. Flu has been circulating among humans, pigs, birds and other species in close contact with humans for millennia. That is why there is a huge range of flu virus variants and why vaccine producers have to design how to best cover their seasonal strain. Neither are even remotely comparable with Covid-19 right now, for which have three highly effective vaccines within 15 months of its discovery. But yes of course we should trash the economy for an indefinite period of time on the off-chance that we might need to create a second vaccine down the line instead which would cost money as well. Simpering, tuned to the moon nonsense doesn't even fully cover it. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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