Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Bert Raccoon]

10 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

That's exactly what someone asking that would look like

 

 

 

MRS BUNFIELD!

[super_carson]

41 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

The latest BBC morale boosting pick-me-up !

BBC News - Covid: Why won't vaccinating the vulnerable end lockdown?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757369

Fear sells, unfortunately.  Not just with covid, but anything due to our ingrained negativity bias -  apparently a psychological trait in humans that suggests we are far more likely to be influenced by negative information than positive.  That is undoubtedly heightened at the moment and the media are driving that in the pursuit of clicks, views and 'likes' on social media.  

I did actually read the article though, and there were a couple of interesting comments at the bottom.  The first of all was made by Chris Witty at the start of December essentially saying that, while it may be a gradual process rather than sudden declaration, we will eventually arrive at a point whereby the risk/death rate from covid is deemed acceptable - much in the same way as we do with flu.  I went back to look at his comments to a Parliamentary committee (9th Dec if anyone is interested) and he was making the point that this position was likely to be arrived at by society, through political leaders. 

It kind of echoed what I, and a few others, have said on this thread - that the scientists and health advisers (who are getting all the attention at the moment) are making all this noise about needing lockdowns and restrictions indefinitely as that is their one area of focus.  People like Sridhar will advocate that position because it is, arguably, the best course of action with regards to tackling the virus.  However, the virus is not the only problem that exists and another months-long lockdown will only exacerbate other societal issues.

That's where the second comment in the article, from a sociology professor who advises the UKg, comes in.  He echoes Witty's comments about people eventually getting to a point where deaths from covid will reach an acceptable level and that point will arrive sooner rather than later.

I know P&B isn't exactly the most diverse cross-section of society, but even taking this as a tiny sample you can see people are fed up with this situation.  People, and I include myself in this, who were originally supportive of the first lockdown as a necessary evil are now wanting to know when this will end.  As more and more people become opposed to these restrictions (as will surely happen the longer they are enforced), governments will be pressurised into lifting restrictions - even if it goes against the science.  Eventually these advisers will take more of a back seat as we start to look at the impact on other areas of society.

That is why, in part, I think they are doubling down on the fear and emotional black-mail messaging (rhetoric of stay at home, protect the NHS and save lives for example).  At this exact moment in time, I don't think anyone would suggest we just lift the restrictions and go back to 2019 levels of activity.  We can accept the NHS is under pressure and we can accept we need time to get more people vaccinated to reduce that risk.  What people, anecdotally, seem to be losing patience with is the lack of commitment to lift restrictions at some point.  What that point may be is fully up for debate, but it seems that a lot more people have grown weary of covid-life and governments are aware of this.  But, influenced by science and public health advisers, the fear-mongering is ramped up to ensure compliance. Compliance that may be necessary now, but could lessen as the impact of yet another lockdown starts to take it's toll.  

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

Donathan was tiptoeing around doing a racism last night and has decided to jump in two footed with it this morning. These alias accounts can never help themselves.

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 hour ago, Donathan said:

 

 

The rule of thumb is that Indian employees are great at following a defined script and utterly useless at thinking on their feet. Any role that requires a lot of expert judgement needs kept in the UK.

 

 

^^^

[101]

13 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

That's exactly what someone asking that would look like

Good point of what's the point of public compliance is low ruined by the fact she seems to be out and about every day of the week. Shops and folk driving really are not great indicators of rules being broken or followed as for groups outdoors, it's the lowest risk place for them.

[Rob1885]

I wonder if the Euros will get canned as well.
I’m not a huge fan of The Olympics but they are bigger deal than the Euros.

UEFA have said this simply isn't an option. Lose too much TV money apparently.

[SlipperyP]

1 hour ago, Donathan said:

 

 

The rule of thumb is that Indian employees are great at following a defined script and utterly useless at thinking on their feet. Any role that requires a lot of expert judgement needs kept in the UK.

 

 

Quote

Dyer is reported to have, from time to time, "checked his fire and directed it upon places where the crowd was thickest",^[not because the crowd was slow to disperse, but because he "had made up his mind to punish them for having assembled there."^[ Some of the soldiers initially shot into the air, at which Dyer shouted: "Fire low. What have you been brought here for

Reginald "Don" Dyer 1919

Think before you shoot Donny. 

[Slacker]

22 minutes ago, super_carson said:

I know P&B isn't exactly the most diverse cross-section of society, but even taking this as a tiny sample you can see people are fed up with this situation.  People, and I include myself in this, who were originally supportive of the first lockdown as a necessary evil are now wanting to know when this will end.  

Largely because during that initial lockdown we were told the way out of this was an effective vaccine.

Now that it seems like we've got this, there's a concern that they're shifting the goalposts. Let's hope not. Obviously it takes time to roll out and they'll need to analyse their data, so maybe I'm panicking too early, but hints of major restrictions being in place this summer/autumn is giving me the fear.

[welshbairn]

2 hours ago, Donathan said:

 

 

The rule of thumb is that Indian employees are great at following a defined script and utterly useless at thinking on their feet. Any role that requires a lot of expert judgement needs kept in the UK.

 

 

[djchapsticks]

9 minutes ago, Snafu said:

I don't know about any conspiracy theories involving the BBC as I don't watch it at home, but as far as care homes go the NCA 'guy could be right as the first line of defence against the virus is your own immune system. A good number of these elderly would  have low immunity in the first place so the vaccine could only do so much. 

There's always a need to back up so called claims, have a look around and see if there are numbers to back it up, see if it is false.

Regardless of any campaign if there is any, the vaccination of the population of the UK will end the lockdowns and the high level restrictions in areas for this virus this year, there is no if or buts about it.

 

I mean I wouldn't go as far as 'conspiracy theory' but there is a clear and consistent narrative to the tone of almost every story they chuck out.

I can sort of understand. Throwing a lot of positive spins on proceedings may well pose a risk of those reading the stories being lulled into a false sense of everything being OK  and not being as stringent with following guidelines so I do get the point of driving home how serious the situation is at the current moment.

But the constant barrage we are seeing of projecting terrible, bleak news months and even in some cases years forward is horribly irresponsible at a point where a lot of anxious people still look to the BBC as a source of information. Particularly at a time in the pandemic where there is actual cause for optimism and hope.

You are allowed to be understanding of the graveness of the situation and severity of restrictions in this point without essentially hinting to people that if you don't behave now, this will last forever. I'd argue that it's actually counterintuitive to take this approach. 

[Scosha]

53 minutes ago, mizfit said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-norfolk-55738780

Suspect many companies will follow this route.

My work were bizarrely always against home/flexible working pre Covid as Senior Management basically didn’t trust anyone to be as productive. I suspect we’ll be in the minority but the company has had its best year to date this year with all of us at home. I doubt they’ll have a leg to stand on when folk ask if they can work from home more often whenever ‘normality’ returns. 

[D.A.F.C]

The £500 for isolating seems like a good idea but will be hard to execute.

Maybe better to give the money to a local team who can distribute medical stuff, food and help with bills or talk to employers?

Edited January 22, 2021 by D.A.F.C

[djchapsticks]

1 minute ago, Scosha said:

My work were bizarrely always against home/flexible working pre Covid as Senior Management basically didn’t trust anyone to be as productive. I suspect we’ll be in the minority but the company has had its best year to date this year with all of us at home. I doubt they’ll have a leg to stand on when folk ask if they can work from home more often whenever ‘normality’ returns. 

My work has absolutely exploded since WFH has came in but then we deal with manufacturing the covid tests that get distributed to the govt.

I'm literally collecting 10x as much money for them as I did in January 2020.

[well fan for life]

25 minutes ago, super_carson said:

I know P&B isn't exactly the most diverse cross-section of society, but even taking this as a tiny sample you can see people are fed up with this situation.  People, and I include myself in this, who were originally supportive of the first lockdown as a necessary evil are now wanting to know when this will end.  As more and more people become opposed to these restrictions (as will surely happen the longer they are enforced), governments will be pressurised into lifting restrictions - even if it goes against the science.  Eventually these advisers will take more of a back seat as we start to look at the impact on other areas of society.

I think this is where a lot of people, including myself, stand. Now I understand that we do need these restrictions I don't think it can be expected that people will just accept them and go about their lives. If they're wanting to keep people in lockdown then why not publish what we're measuring against and, fucking curse me into the oblivion of the Business Bullshit thread, publish a roadmap of how we expect to move out of the restrictions. The black box approach of placing us all in a lockdown for an unknown period of time due to unknown to the outside measures probably doesn't help. 

 

Just now, Scosha said:

My work were bizarrely always against home/flexible working pre Covid as Senior Management basically didn’t trust anyone to be as productive. I suspect we’ll be in the minority but the company has had its best year to date this year with all of us at home. I doubt they’ll have a leg to stand on when folk ask if they can work from home more often whenever ‘normality’ returns. 

My work are now shifting to majority of work done from home. I worked a couple of days at home anyway but shifting to it most of the time is new. There was the chat about not being as productive but I swear between like August - December that's the most we've ever achieved as a team. 

[hk blues]

1 minute ago, D.A.F.C said:

The £500 for isolating seems like a good idea but will be hard to execute.

Maybe better to give the money to a local team who can distribute medical stuff, food and help with bills or talk to employers?

I think the 450m it will cost per week could be better spent, in a more targeted way - just as you have suggested.

[djchapsticks]

2 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

The £500 for isolating seems like a good idea but will be hard to execute.

Maybe better to give the money to a local team who can distribute medical stuff, food and help with bills or talk to employers?

Having seen how local teams dealt with distributing school meals to children, I'd say you're better taking your chances with the money.

Unfortunately, I would not trust any private company or team to distribute goods to the value of X without skimming something off the top.

[btb]

PM doing a conference this afternoon and the "leaking" regarding what he might say is tending to think there'll be more bad news than good.

For a government that was mainly issuing optimistic summaries up until just before they cancelled Christmas I think this change is the main reason we're seeing PP in the last few weeks. Here she is in her true form...

Edit - If the news s the £500 grant to self isolate , that wouldn't be bad news and it might (in his own mind) be then three cheers for Uncle Boris.

Edited January 22, 2021 by btb

[Billy Jean King]

I don't know about any conspiracy theories involving the BBC as I don't watch it at home, but as far as care homes go the NCA 'guy could be right as the first line of defence against the virus is your own immune system. A good number of these elderly would  have low immunity in the first place so the vaccine could only do so much. 
There's always a need to back up so called claims, have a look around and see if there are numbers to back it up, see if it is false.
Regardless of any campaign if there is any, the vaccination of the population of the UK will end the lockdowns and the high level restrictions in areas for this virus this year, there is no if or buts about it.
 

Surely Covid protection via the vaccine isn't influenced by your immune system. The vaccine efficacy has got to have a zero immunity baseline. No way Pfizer are going to claim (for example) 90% efficacy then put in brackets and small print (unless you are already elderly and have weakened natural immunity). Or is it the case that a 90% in my example is an average and in effect it's almost 100% in a healthy 35yo but way lower in a care home bound 85yo ?

[101]

9 land borders seems like a tough ask to get to Zero Covid. Will be interesting if her sympathetic view turns into reality.

 

 

[vikingTON]

39 minutes ago, super_carson said:

People like Sridhar will advocate that position because it is, undoubtedly, the best course of action with regards to her getting a cushier job.  

FTFY

The issue of course is that we're just not seeing enough of these necessary, different perspectives in the mainstream news media though. It is wall to wall public health officials and hospital shots and weepy ICU updates which yeah is quite clearly a critical issue right now but is also being conflated with what should be done in the spring as well. There's no rational debate because these other perspectives have been crowded out.