Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[bennett]

39 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Info handed to the UK Covid enquiry shows that Nicola Sturgeon manually deleted messages from her WhatsApp, Sunday Mail reports.

 

Same with our friendly neighbourhood dentist. 

 

I wonder what they're trying to hide.

[Arthur Orton]

23 minutes ago, bennett said:

 

Same with our friendly neighbourhood dentist. 

 

I wonder what they're trying to hide.

They will be hiding their incompetence, their lies and the contempt they showed for the average person during COVID.

Their comments on us scummy football fans would have been of interest that's for sure.

They're an absolute disgrace and a shower of embarrassing clowns.

 

[ScotiaNostra]

Its hard to believe a first minister would knowingly delete any conversations related to government

[UsedToGoToCentralPark]

1 hour ago, ScotiaNostra said:

Its hard to believe a first minister would knowingly delete any conversations related to government

Disagree.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Surely this amounts to misconduct in public office? 

[deegee]

Whilst I don’t really understand why senior government business would be conducted on WhatsApp, it does seem to be the case that once there was talk of an inquiry, all communications would by law need to be preserved.

That’s what was discussed on the Sunday Show this morning with the lawyer Aamar Anwar, If true, Sturgeon and the Dentist could be criminally culpable.

Edited October 29, 2023 by deegee

[Michael W]

I suppose Ms "can't recall" has just taken the necessary step here to ensure that she indeed can't recall when she's questioned on the bad stuff. Nothing she's written available to be brought in to assist her...

An utter disgrace. And it'll keep happening until those doing these things are prosecuted. 

[ScotiaNostra]

21 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Surely this amounts to misconduct in public office? 

I would agree, to me this is along those lines if true

[ScotiaNostra]

16 minutes ago, deegee said:

Whilst I don’t really understand why senior government business would be conducted on WhatsApp, it does seem to be the case that once there was talk of an inquiry, all communications would by law need to be preserved.

That’s what was discussed on the Sunday Show this morning with the lawyer Anas Sarwar. If true, Sturgeon and the Dentist could be criminally culpable.

and from day 1 of a lockdown being called, it would have been obvious some sort of enquiry would happen. To knowingly delete government business conversations that would be known to be needed to fully learn and improve on any future pandemic response. 

Theres just no logic to it at all

[Michael W]

21 minutes ago, deegee said:

Whilst I don’t really understand why senior government business would be conducted on WhatsApp, it does seem to be the case that once there was talk of an inquiry, all communications would by law need to be preserved.

That’s what was discussed on the Sunday Show this morning with the lawyer Anas Sarwar. If true, Sturgeon and the Dentist could be criminally culpable.

It definitely has its place as a communication method. It's efficient and you have access to it at any time. 

The problem is the record keeping. If, for example, Sturgeon had an in-person meeting with Jason Leitch or her cabinet, there would be a written record of that and the points of discussion. Anything discussed on WhatsApp almost certainly isn't recorded separately because the audit trail and a full account of discussion is there within the app. However, that gives the individual(s) a very easy way to get rid of it. All they have to do is hit delete. I think they can even set their messages to autodelete after a certain time. 

I don't think there's a suggestion decision making was conducted via WhatsApp, but some of the decisions made have almost certainly been undertaken based on such conversations; they need to be on the record. 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Michael W

[Netan Sansara]

1 minute ago, Michael W said:

It definitely has its place as a communication method. It's efficient and you have access to it at any time. 

The problem is the record keeping. If, for example, Sturgeon had an in-person meeting with Jason Leitch or her cabinet, there would be a written record of that and the points of discussion. Anything discussed on WhatsApp almost certainly isn't recorded separately because the audit trail is there. However, that gives the individual(s) a very easy way to get rid of it. All they have to do is hit delete. I think they can even set their messages to autodelete after a certain time. 

I don't think there's a suggestion decision making was conducted via WhatsApp, but some of the decisions made have almost certainly been undertaken based on such conversations; they need to be on the record. 

I’ve worked places where the auto delete of messages was legally required exactly for the arse covering aspect of discovery in a lawsuit. Usually this covered instant messaging like WhatsApp with emails preserved (and always reminded that anything you sent by email could end up on the front pages). It’s wrong but is incredibly common place in business. 

Total shambles that it’s happening in government though. They’ll fall back on Covid being a strange time, everyone trying to be “agile” so they were using WhatsApp instead of more official means. 

Theres been a massive crackdown by the SEC in the US this year on banks using WhatsApp for official bank business, conveniently raising millions but officially because of the lack of regulatory control. 

[Todd_is_God]

27 minutes ago, ScotiaNostra said:

Theres just no logic to it at all

I disagree.

The only logical reason for deleting a Whatsapp message is to ensure no-one can read something you don't want them to.

[Miguel Sanchez]

[Derry Alli]

Nicolas Sturgeon is, in fact, a cretinous little shit?

I am shocked.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

27 minutes ago, ScotiaNostra said:

and from day 1 of a lockdown being called, it would have been obvious some sort of enquiry would happen. To knowingly delete government business conversations that would be known to be needed to fully learn and improve on any future pandemic response. 

Theres just no logic to it at all

They surely knew there was going to be a washup of some description coming once it was all over with,  if the truth is (and I think it is) that they simply got caught up in the panic of early 2020 ( when they should have been the ones to stay calm) abandoned all previous plans and made it up as they went along. which is a bit shit but can at least be used for the lessons learned afterwards.  If they are deliberately denying and hiding things then it will only fuel more and more conspiracy theories that there was something more contrived going on re power grabs and excuses to force through unpopular changes - like drinking on trains or stricter controls on football fans. 

if you look back far enough on this thread, all of the main players had noticed that politicians at least appeared to be very very careful not to explicitly promise that we would eventually revert back to 2019 normality, there was all this talk of new normal and behavioral changes. That fueled a lot of anxiety and people have every right to know why that was the case

[alta-pete]

1 hour ago, deegee said:

 

That’s what was discussed on the Sunday Show this morning with the lawyer Anas Sarwar. If true, Sturgeon and the Dentist could be criminally culpable.

 

[Bairnardo]

Have to say this is pretty shambolic. The fact that deletion of a message is a deliberate act rather than something that just happens if you let it for me means there should be charges brought at whatever level destruction of this sort of record applies, and also an immediate halt to politicians using whatsapp or similar to communicate, until clear policy is made re making sure this doesn't happen again.

The idea that in the cold light of day, when it's time to review the calls that were made, people have purposefully hidden things is nauseating. The sheer arrogance alone is astounding. I expect it from Tories but this is the death of Sturgeons credibility for me, which is a real shame. 

Leitch can just f**k off tbh. 

[Rugster]

Must be the first time in history that the phrase “Jason Leitch would not comment” was uttered. The c**t would turn up to the opening of an envelope normally. 

[Michael W]

1 hour ago, Netan Sansara said:

I’ve worked places where the auto delete of messages was legally required exactly for the arse covering aspect of discovery in a lawsuit. Usually this covered instant messaging like WhatsApp with emails preserved (and always reminded that anything you sent by email could end up on the front pages). It’s wrong but is incredibly common place in business. 

Total shambles that it’s happening in government though. They’ll fall back on Covid being a strange time, everyone trying to be “agile” so they were using WhatsApp instead of more official means. 

Theres been a massive crackdown by the SEC in the US this year on banks using WhatsApp for official bank business, conveniently raising millions but officially because of the lack of regulatory control. 

Doing business via WhatsApp was forbidden in the firm I worked for. Anything relating to business activity beyond some basic messages with team members (when will the report for client X be ready etc.) was a no-no. 

I have few doubts it still happened on the sly, right enough, but it wasn't allowed and would've resulted in a "no biscuits" meeting if discovered. Although not a US entity, we served clients subject to SEC rules and so these were always taken very seriously. The position on WhatsApp has almost inevitably been tightened as a result. 

My role is no longer a client-facing one, but my new employer similarly doesn't allow work to be conducted via WhatsApp. 

I do however think it's different for private companies and the Government. Governments need to keep records and show why decisions have been taken; I have no problem with them talking about that on WhatsApp as a medium, but it needs to be retained and recorded appropriately to evidence the decision. Private businesses are inclined not to allow WhatsApp or severely restrict it in case a mislaid device makes its way into the wrong hands and exposes confidential information, leading to any number of problems. Businesses operating in regulated sectors also have additional issues with record retentions. Add on the potential for conflicts of interest and bribery (e.g. between a client and a service provider) and It's just not worth the risk. 

[ScotiaNostra]

I think this story is going to gain momentum through the week