Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[doulikefish]

Scotland the only country where wearing a mask that might help or giving a new born babies mother a nice wee starter pack box is deemed as a terrible thing by some 

[madwullie]

2 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

There's obviously cultural differences between countries and places but I don't think that we can say that contact tracing is impossible in the UK but not in Asia.  People in this country have shown a very high compliance to the lockdown measures, considering how alien it is to so many people.  Support for the lockdown remains high, as seen in just about every poll.  If people support being confined to their homes then I think they'd probably be in favour of testing and isolation for people found to have it.

 

That's something that's been annoying me - the idea that us brits just weren't the type of people to have a lockdown, and this being used as an excuse (that plenty are buying) for us not to have locked down earlier because we wouldn't have stood for it. 

[dirty dingus]

3 minutes ago, madwullie said:

NS laying the groundwork to keep the lockdown in place 

Yes I think it will be end of May before they even consider a partial opening. They will be watching Germany closely. I don't know how the supply of tests works and the availability but  they need to get the finger out and get all health and social care tested on a regular basis whether they are symptomatic or not.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

47 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Also, that last sentence seems to contradict old prof Hugh Pennington.

Now I'm certainly not an expert, and i have no idea whether there will be a second spike, but he's got some pretty good credentials. What are you bringing to the table, other than absolute certainty on a topic you're not that clued up on?

All I'm bringing to the table is twenty plus years of operational experience, including involvement with pandemic contingency planning when we were threatened by H1Ni, Avian flu, and SARS. I'm still working in a frontline role, as a Health and Safety Adviser, and as such am in daily contact with Covid Gold, the team co-ordinating the response to this threat. It may interest you to know that Cygnus was not the only large resilience exercise carried out to identify failings in our ability to combat these threats - nor was it the only one to be roundly ignored when the cost implications were realised. I'm seeing no change in the mindset this time around - simply put, they'd rather spend a tenner to fix a problem than spend a fiver to prevent that problem occurring. The current PPE crisis is an obvious example.

[Alert Mongoose]

34 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Indeed. Just like Priti the Traitor's ludicrous crime reduction claims, there will be many fewer deaths in care homes once they're all empty. The negative in that situation is the vultures which run these establishments being rescued by taxpayer funds.

FTFY. Sadly.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Alert Mongoose

[Granny Danger]

3 minutes ago, madwullie said:

I know I'm an snp voter and wouldn't cross the road to pish on a tory on fire, but I genuinely can't see how anyone could say that sturgeon isn't head and shoulders above the offerings we're given from down south. Honest, factual, explains her thinking, assumes we're smart enough to deal with the concepts, not evasive, just generally a really good leader in a time of crisis. 

I’ve also been very impressed by Surgeon’s handling of the briefings and she is definitely motivated by what is good for the country without bowing to interest groups.  However there needs to be an analysis of the Scottish Government’s handling of this once the time is right.  We seem to be proportionate to the U.K. as a whole in terms of casualties and that is too high a figure.

I also think we need to know if Scotland played a role in and/or were appraised of the findings of Cygnet.

 

[jagfox]

Andy Cole interview. Former Manchester United striker on living in lockdown, how lots of transplant patients ‘hate themselves’, and the value of support

An interesting piece touching on various effects of lockdown on mental health.

[Jacksgranda]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52188820

Spain seems to have made nearly as big a hash as we have.

[jagfox]

24 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Honestly? I've never in 20+ years known such an atmosphere of tension and, in cases, fear. This applies to staff and prisoners. Our problem (in all non-open prisons) is that, while the wall is a pretty good barrier to isolate the community inside, this barrier will eventually be breached. The infection rate inside prisons is far lower than in the general community, BUT..

Once an infection (colds, bugs, seasonal flu, etc.) gets into a jail, it tends to ricochet around for ages, with everybody (staff and cons) getting a taste. Hopefully our protective measures will minimise this in the case of Covid-19.

We have had a couple of staff confirmed with the virus, and currently around 5% of the staff are absent either through shielding or self-isolating.

We had our first (inmate) positive in my nick last weekend. We now have three confirmed cases. All our customers have single en-suite cells, so isolation is as simple as closing his door and putting a warning sign on it. Well, not quite, but it's fairly simple. Everyone is just waiting for the second shoe to fall, tbh. We seem to have held this fucker at bay abit longer than we'd expected, but now it's in the nick, all bets are off. We also have a disproportionately high number of prioners classed as "vulnerable", so it could be hellish. We're as prepared as we can be, but there's an air of waiting for a massive attack from an unseen enemy.

Happy Days!

Thanks for the insight.

What's the script with PPE? Are staff being supplied.

Here's a piece I saw on the general effect on prisons in England and Wales.

Nearly 1,800 ‘possible’ coronavirus cases in English and Welsh prisons Figure is more than five times the confirmed tally, as experts report ‘cautious optimism’

Quote

The Ministry of Justice said it would free up to 4,000 prisoners who were within two months of their release date and had passed a risk assessment. But on Monday the justice secretary, Robert Buckland, revealed that only 33 prisoners had been released, including pregnant prisoners.

Any idea why this measure seems to have been so ineffectual @WhiteRoseKillie?

Is it seen as worthwhile?

[Steven W]

21 minutes ago, madwullie said:

NS laying the groundwork to keep the lockdown in place 

Yep.

Beginning to think we could see a situation where the rest of the UK is relaxing the lockdown to some extent (it kind of has already), and us Scots still stuck in the house.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

9 minutes ago, madwullie said:

I know I'm an snp voter and wouldn't cross the road to pish on a tory on fire, but I genuinely can't see how anyone could say that sturgeon isn't head and shoulders above the offerings we're given from down south. Honest, factual, explains her thinking, assumes we're smart enough to deal with the concepts, not evasive, just generally a really good leader in a time of crisis. 

Political allegiance aside, the treatment of the electorate by the Scottish Government and that at Westminster is night and day. As you say, the SG will tell the voters some complex facts, and explain them as far as to make them make sense to a layman. Refreshingly, they trust the populace to be bright enough to understand, or at least ask for clarification where required.

The UK Government, on the other hand, believe they are above the common herd, and that it is pointless confusing the poor dears with diffcult stuff when a few mentions of WWII, some flashy PowerPoint slides, and an illegitimate child will distract the rabble from scrutinising what's actually happening. Sadly, they know their target audience. After acknowledging Johnson has produced another child which will probably never know its father at PMQs yesterday lunchtime, Raaab started yesterday's briefing by inviting a joyous nation to celebrate the birth - before revealing that hundreds moe innocent lives had been lost to this virus. As wrong notes go, this is only superceded for me by that witch Patel and her crowing about a fall in crime figures. I would have thought it obvious shoplifting would fall when all the fucking shops are shut, but she seemed to think it was a major achievement.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

 

Still, good old Boris has another b*****d

 

10 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

an illegitimate child

Johnson has produced another child which will probably never know its father

Bit obsessed m8, this is 2020.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

1 minute ago, jagfox99 said:

Thanks for the insight.

What's the script with PPE? Are staff being supplied.

Here's a piece I saw on the general effect on prisons in England and Wales.

Nearly 1,800 ‘possible’ coronavirus cases in English and Welsh prisons Figure is more than five times the confirmed tally, as experts report ‘cautious optimism’

Any idea why this measure seems to have been so ineffectual @WhiteRoseKillie?

Is it seen as worthwhile?

Right, here goes.

PPE: in common with other agencies, we have struggled to source sufficient PPE. In our environment, cleaning/disinfecting and social distancing is massively important and regimes have (for the most part) been adjusted to accommodate this. Actual PPE required is not that sophisticated  - gloves, surgical mask and apron is standard, with eye protection if there is a risk of aerosol effect. Some staff feel this is not adequate, but in fairness, given that we are not a clinical environment and interaction is limited, it is the proper use. Full bio-suits and ffp3 masks are used for cleaning possibly contaminated areas - interestingly enough, prisoner cleaners (BICS-trained) carry out these tasks, as well as the general cleaning and disinfecting. I hear various tales from around the Estate, but our governor has not only sourced extra PPE himself when supplies were running short, he is ready to stop doing the tasks which require it rather than ask staff to work unprotected.

The early release scheme is a strange one - obviously, 98% plus of those who go to jail get out at some point. This scheme has been a wee bit of a PR stunt, mind, as it didn't let anyone out who wasn't going to be out in a couple of months anyway. I don't know how many have come into the system, as the CJ system appears to be shutting down so newly convicted prisoner numbers must be dropping too. Certainly, in the Long Term Estate, there's not the number of big cases* coming to trial at the moment.

*Which result in big sentences, natch.

[Thane of Cawdor]

Steve Bell cartoon in The Guardian. Personally I haven't found Bell funny or perceptive since he furiously lampooned Tony Blair, but I simply don't understand this cartoon. Is he celebrating the strength and determination of Jock firing the virus into the sea loch? Or is it a lazy stereotype and piss-take showing his disdain for the pitiful and inadequate measures introduced by the Scottish Government?

 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

37 minutes ago, doulikefish said:

Scotland the only country where wearing a mask that might help or giving a new born babies mother a nice wee starter pack box is deemed as a terrible thing by some 

Its a sair fecht.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

4 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

 

Bit obsessed m8, this is 2020.

Not obsessed at all, I've no problem with any sort of modern relationship.

I do have a problem with irresponsible people not taking parenting seriously, with the double standards from the leader of a party which celebrates "family values" and mocks the Deputy Leader of the opposition for her family history, with a man who spends an entire Election campaign telling us his children (specifically how many) are none of our business then can't wait to leave the latest spawn with his mother and leap out from his purdah to distract from the fact that people are dying, and the suspicion that a fair proportion of these deaths are down to actions and inactions which can be laid directly at his door, and with a sycophantic media who are disgustingly grateful to have a puff piece on this child to take up screen-time and column inches rather than, you know, report the news because people dying is a sad story and won't be helpful at a time when we need national unity.

Still, Spitfires, Churchill, clapping,eh?

[Todd_is_God]

1 hour ago, madwullie said:

I think that's incredibly optimistic. Are there any trustable figures for what proportion of the population have already been infected. 

 

I agree it's very optomistic.

No to the second part. There doesn't seem to be much desire at the moment to find that out. I find that slightly puzzling as I imagine that if more asymptomatic cases can be identified then the approach going forward could change quite a bit.

[dirty dingus]

50 minutes ago, doulikefish said:

Scotland the only country where wearing a mask that might help or giving a new born babies mother a nice wee starter pack box is deemed as a terrible thing by some 

   

 

These iteam above have been approved by the scottish govt as adequate facial protection

[welshbairn]

[Arch Stanton]

36 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

 

Bit obsessed m8, this is 2020.

She has a point.