Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[DeeTillEhDeh]

A lot of responses to this seem to center around "if you still think it's a cold / flu after 2 years..."
It's not possible to converse in a meaningful way with people who hold that particular view as they choose to ignore that the "payload" of the current virus variant in circulation is almost unrecognisable to the Wuhan variant.

Trivialising it as a shan virus or just like the cold though is not helpful either if you want to have that conversation. Remember that people have had 2 years of being bombarded with negative after negative by the press - and it's still happening.

[Todd_is_God]

Just now, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Trivialising it as... just like the cold though is not helpful either if you want to have that conversation. Remember that people have had 2 years of being bombarded with negative after negative by the press - and it's still happening.

 

If Omicron is "just like the cold" then I don't think saying so is trivialising it, though.

[Forever_blueco]

Lol

[Billy Jean King]

I’m not sure that’s realistic or else the NHS will always be at breaking point with staff absence. If staff are symptomatic then that’s one thing, but if you genuinely think testing of all staff to find asymptomatic cases will be a permanent thing then the NHS is done. This isn’t something that happened in the past, so unsure where you’re getting that from? Asymptomatic staff have never been tested daily for the common cold?

Asymptomatic testing wasn't mentioned in the original post I was responding to. NHS staff did go off sick before Covid and will continue to do so where infected. Asymptomatic cases won't be the issue once sector specific mandatory testing stops. Those staff were not routinely tested for any viruses pre Covid AFAIK (might have been for flu in wards that were particularly vulnerable)

[DeeTillEhDeh]

If Omicron is "just like the cold" then I don't think saying so is trivialising it, though.

As ever you miss the point.

I meant having the conversation with people who have 2 years of it being drummed into them the dangers of Covid.

Using that sort of language is just going to get some people's backs up and not convince them otherwise.

[Monkey Tennis]

24 minutes ago, ddfg said:

If the priority is to minimise cases and protect the NHS shutting the schools makes more sense than banning vaccinated adults standing outside in the fresh air for a couple of hours. 

Well of course.  

However, there is some recognition going on that closing sectors carries other costs.  

Now, I think the football situation right now is rather stupid and unnecessary.  Nevertheless, I also think that seeing it as more important in general that schools stay open than football grounds, is perfectly sensible.  It was that 'agenda' that apparently troubled you.

[Todd_is_God]

6 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

As ever you miss the point.

I meant having the conversation with people who have 2 years of it being drummed into them the dangers of Covid.

Using that sort of language is just going to get some people's backs up and not convince them otherwise.

I think it's you that's missed the point tbh.

No amount of persuasion is going to get these people to understand, regardless of how soft the language you use is. The only way they are ever changing their views is if Chris Whitty or Jason Leitch tell them to.

[Michael W]

29% positivity. My word. 

ICU numbers still pretty low despite the case numbers is a good sign. 

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I think it's you that's missed the point tbh.
No amount of persuasion is going to get these people to understand, regardless of how soft the language you use is. The only way they are ever changing their views is if Chris Whitty or Jason Leitch tell them to.

We'll agree to disagree.

I just feel if you are going to build up pressure on the politicians to roll back restrictions then you need to take people with you - otherwise they will always have the get out of "but people support the restrictions" - which is what a lot of the polls are still telling us.

I'm also thinking about relatives with entrenched views - particularly the elderly (and often with underlying health conditions) - I think softening the language is more helpful in those situations.

[LongTimeLurker]

4 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

...However, there is some recognition going on that closing sectors carries other costs...

If the politicians were not willing/able to make the tough decisions required to genuinely go after zero covid by accepting those costs they shouldn't have targeted politically expedient low risk sectors as a way to make it look like they were actually doing something they weren't. There was a whole charade going on where they were really just letting it rip to save the economy by keeping schools and workplaces open but were constantly guilt tripping people with absurd nanny state rules that were never going to be effective at reversing the wave. Those rules kept getting ratcheted up until the wave finally peaked as it was always going to do anyway.

[Left Back]

9 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

 

 

We'll agree to disagree.

I just feel if you are going to build up pressure on the politicians to roll back restrictions then you need to take people with you - otherwise they will always have the get out of "but people support the restrictions" - which is what a lot of the polls are still telling us.

 

Polls shouldn't come into it and if things are being done purely because of polling data then the people in charge aren't fit to lead.

[GiGi]

Quote

Almost 16,000 daily positive cases is probably in tune with the central estimates of modellers but we could still see a sharp rise over the next few days as the data starts to catch up. It may be that the worst-case scenario has been avoided because people have adapted their behaviour even before restrictions were brought in.

That's from the BBC article on the record case numbers today. The bit in bold just seems like pure conjecture. I've no evidence to counter this baseless claim but I will say that I was out for a beer on Christmas Eve and went to the cinema this week and both places have been absolutely rammed. You could barely move around Silverburn and all the restaurants were packed with long queues waiting to get in.

Anecdotal or not I highly doubt we're only avoiding the worst case scenario because more people are being careful. 

[Bairnardo]

Worth noting after they mental numbers that the cases by specimen date doesn't look quite as dramatic

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Polls shouldn't come into it and if things are being done purely because of polling data then the people in charge aren't fit to lead.

As far back as I can remember politicians have used (and abused) polling data to back their arguments.

[Monkey Tennis]

3 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

If the politicians were not willing/able to make the tough decisions required to genuinely go after zero covid by accepting those costs they shouldn't have targeted politically expedient low risk sectors as a way to make it look like they were actually doing something they weren't. There was a whole charade going on where they were really just letting it rip to save the economy by keeping schools and workplaces open but were constantly guilt tripping people with absurd nanny state rules that were never going to be effective at reversing the wave. Those rules kept getting ratcheted up until the wave finally peaked as it was always going to do anyway.

Remember that schools did actually get shut, for two separate spells which each lasted a few months.  

Are you saying any restrictions on what people can do, must be 'all or nothing'?  If not, an agenda which prioritises schools, does not strike me as a particularly indefensible one.

[LongTimeLurker]

5 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Worth noting after they mental numbers that the cases by specimen date doesn't look quite as dramatic

...there's a reason today was chosen for the big announcement. More petty nanny state restrictions were no doubt planned but they bottled it because they knew there would finally have been a major backlash this time in public opinion terms.

Edited December 29, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[Blue Brazil Forever]

8 minutes ago, Michael W said:

29% positivity. My word. 

ICU numbers still pretty low despite the case numbers is a good sign. 

 

When is the Tsunami of cases forecast by the First Minister and by Sage advisers likely to occur? We haven't been told so we are still feart

[Billy Jean King]

I think it's you that's missed the point tbh.
No amount of persuasion is going to get these people to understand, regardless of how soft the language you use is. The only way they are ever changing their views is if Chris Whitty or Jason Leitch tell them to.

Most of the folk I know who are hiding indoors and pretty scared to do anything are as far away from the SNP on the political spectrum as you can get. They are far removed from being fanboys but are non the less pretty terrified. We managed 3 out of 11 to go to the pub last night. Most replies were "it's too risky". They were not particularly vulnerable either mostly. To argue that only SNP idoloitors are buying into fear is total nonsense.

[Zetterlund]

Anecdotally, much more people I know have tested positive recently than at any other time since this all started, however nearly all of them are asymptomatic or have very mild symptoms. A few family members I've seen over Christmas, including my wife, have had a normal winter cold, testing negative multiple times but with symptoms worse than any of the covid-positive folk.

It's quite strange, despite the numbers and the ever-present fearmongering from the media, the mood among most people out & about is that covid is just about done. The biggest concern most have is the isolation rules rather than any fear of the virus itself.

[Billy Jean King]

...there's a reason today was chosen for the big announcement. More petty nanny state restrictions were no doubt planned but they bottled it because they knew there would finally have been a major backlash this time in public opinion terms.

It's getting a bit ridiculous when folk are now making excuses like "bottled it" when there are NO new restrictions announced.