The SPFL recommendation?

[inreganhendrywetrust]

So many bitter Falkirk inbreds on here. You had your chance and blew it

[Shadwell Dog]

2 minutes ago, Paco said:

 

We’d have finished 1st or 2nd. Raith fans have almost unanimously said we want this to pass for promotion, as has the chairman (he adds its for the ‘greater good’ which causes annoyance). Falkirk fans seem to want it to fail simply for a weaker rival in the league next time around under the guise of ‘fairness’, while the board bleat about reconstruction that they’ve ‘always wanted’ that would just so happen to benefit Falkirk.

I’m not saying it’s a fault by the way. Each supporter and each club is right to want what’s best for them. The arguments about it are tedious. I just wanted an acknowledgment that Falkirk would ‘just happen’ to benefit from the general choice of their fan base on here, and Shadwell Dog provided it.

 

Raith will go up one way or the other. It's what happens to those in relegation places and promotion playoff spots that needs ironed out. Theres loads of time to do that if you get the cash out now.

[renton]

12 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

I genuinely don't want to keep butting head with Raith fans over this so don't consider this an attack on Raith for their fans.

Of course the majority of clubs voted Yes to last week's proposal and for most of them, it's because they knew they'd get the positional-based payments due to to them that will ease financial difficulties.

The problem a lot of people have with this is precisely that conflation of deciding championships / promotion / relegation together with payment. It means that you could see this as something close to a bribe - vote for our proposal on how to end the leagues and you get your money. Don't and you won't. Shaft Hearts, Partick and Stranraer for cash.

Everyone knows you can be dishonest whilst saying things that are true. We're not kids, we all understand that. It's the reason the phrase 'the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth' exists.

The reason people see Bill Clark as dishonest here is because he's pushing that conflation of payments and promotion. Of course he wants that prize money, the same way chairmen at Falkirk, East Fife and Forfar do. But it's clear that, primarily, he wants to push through the issue of promotion for Raith inside that financial issue. I don't blame him for that. It's what I'd do in his position, it's what the vast majority of us would do. But it's a bit silly to pretend that's not the case.

This isn't a court of law, we don't need to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that's the case or put him through a lie detector test. it's human nature, we all know that's the case because that is exactly what everyone would do in that situation.

No one is pretending that isn't the case. Clark, over several interviews on out own website at least has made it clear he views a cessation that doesn't see Rovers go up as unsatisfactory. In all the same interviews he's also mentioned that we'd be fine for the next two months, but would be staring down a barrel come the summer months. Something he reiterated a short while ago.

When it comes to his enthusiasm for this version of the deal, it is of course clear that since it also promotes us, there is likely to be little resistance to it from us. At the same time, there is a paucity of other, workable suggestions coming out from other clubs, many of whom voted Yes as well. So maybe the SPFL are laying it on thick and giving it the old TINA treatment, however, outside of Dundee's bizarre "Give the Arabs the trophy and the money but not the leg up to the Premier" and The Rangers illegal loan idea, there seems to be a lack of short term, workarounds to allowing clubs to get the money and plan for next season.

The idea that Clark is being disingenuous with his motives doesn't stand up to scrutiny. I dont think he's trying to rush others into agreeing because of Rovers promotion, I think he's doing it primarily because we'll be in trouble down the line if we dont sort this quickly. The fact that other clubs voted Yes seems to corroborate that. 

You can have overlapping, ranked priorities. This deal happens to satisfy both our selfish self interest (promotion) and our enlightened self interest (finishing the season to release money, plan and budget for next). Maybe because there are those two strands to it he is not a good spokesman for this. On the other hand, I'd argue that his primary goal is the same as other clubs: to ensure the continued existence of the club. Rovers are no different in that respect and if it is the prime mover behind all the other Yes votes it shouldn't be discounted as the prime mover behind the Rovers vote either. 

[Shadwell Dog]

1 minute ago, raith1974 said:

I keen to have the season ended now for one simple reason, there's not a fucking hope in hell of the season being completed prior to player contracts ending or even this side of August. Get over it we are top and have been for months, you are not. You've failed all season to beat us, clearly second best to us. Now just hope that the SPFL agree to promote the top 2 otherwise dont cry when we rightfully get promoted along with Dundee Utd and Cove Rangers.

See this is where you lose goodwill from me. This we were top for how many weeks and you couldnt beat us in 3 games blah blah blah. That has nothing to do with this whole thing.  You were top on the random weekend that the season finished thats all that matters at the moment. It could quite easily  have been us the next weekend. Raith will go up quite rightly and that's there good fortune . We may well follow which is why we want there to be proper discussions on this instead of a here you go sign up to this and only then will u get any money demand.

[CALDERON]

At the end of the day, the SPFL have created this conflation of prize money and final positions and have painted it as the only available option. 

[Diamonds are Forever]

33 minutes ago, Paco said:

 

Out of interest. Why are you so bitterly opposed to Raith being promoted?

I know it’s unfair but as you rightly point out, someone is going to be hurt here. Yourself and a few Falkirk fans are utterly opposed to the idea of us going up, but not null and void. Both scenarios are the same for Falkirk - another season in League 1.

Is it that you fear Partick Thistle more than Raith? So really null and void is just a screen to an easier season next season for Falkirk?

 

 

It will just be the frustration of missing out for them. It will make them feel better if no-one goes up because in that scenario their crapness throughout the season would have made no difference, they could have played like Barcelona all season and they still wouldn't have gone up. However if Raith get promoted they'll know that if only they had been marginally less poor this season it would have been them. The end result is the same - Falkirk stay down. However one scenario would probably create a lot more frustration at missing out.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Diamonds are Forever

[San Starko Rover]

Christ I hope Dundee vote one way or the other soon so we can stop going round in circles for 20 odd days. I wonder if every league in Europe is having the same argument?

[Shadwell Dog]

1 minute ago, CALDERON said:

At the end of the day, the SPFL have created this conflation of prize money and final positions and have painted it as the only available option. 

Exactly. My disappointment has been that the clubs haven't stood up to this board of incompetents and said. Look get the feckin cash out now and forget all this pish.  We're all talking about reconstruction for 42 clubs. We'll.be lucky to have that if the spfl dont just get a proposal out there now to release the bloody money.

[Grangemouth Bairn]

32 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

 

I highly doubt people are donating money they can’t afford to donate. Yes some people are on reduced income but I’ve found my outgoing have gone down massively as I’m sat in the house or at work, I’m sure many will have found the same.

Yes that’s a fair point. If people are choosing to use that additional income to pay footballers wages it’s entirely up to them.

Like I said, I don’t agree with it, only my opinion, but if Mill reaches the target of £50k, he’s played a blinder.

[Bairn in Exile]

10 minutes ago, inreganhendrywetrust said:

So many bitter Falkirk inbreds on here. You had your chance and blew it

Oi, Inreganhendrywetrust, nós somos seus primos no Brasil, como você está?

[Shadwell Dog]

4 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

Christ I hope Dundee vote one way or the other soon so we can stop going round in circles for 20 odd days. I wonder if every league in Europe is having the same argument?

They aren't as no other league is asking their teams to vote on promotion and relegation at this stage. We're the only fannies doing that at the moment.

I now doubt a vote either way will stop us going round in circles anyway due to the complete incompetence of the spfl bod.  This will now run and run as people turn to legal teams. We needed a quick and transparent vote to sort this out which is exactly what we definitely didn't get.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Shadwell Dog

[Scary Bear]

41 minutes ago, AL-FFC said:

UEFA about to abandon the 19/20 camapaign:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-red-alert-fifa-bigwig-21853906

FIFA bigwig Michel D'Hooghe believes UEFA will make the call to abandon this season imminently.

The governing body have hired world-renowned Belgian virologist Marc Van Ranst to advise them about the future impact of the coronavirus and he has urged them to forget about any prospect of playing out the remainder of the season.

He said: "I have the distinct impression UEFA have turned and have changed their mind. And that's a very good thing because lives are at stake here.

"I admire the work of Marc Van Ranst and welcome UEFA asking him for advice on the coronavirus crisis. It's not before time too. 

"In Italy, their doctors are saying football won't be played any time soon. And UEFA appears to have lost sight of the fact that the health crisis will not be resolved within two months.

Seeing how the SPFL have handled this, it’s probably for the best that they just do what UEFA tell them.

[roverthemoon]

2 hours ago, Rovers_Lad said:

As far as Rovers fans i,ll be in the minority on this but I actually agree with you to an extent.Find some of the stuff he comes out with a bit cringey

Don’t think you’re alone on this. Most folk I know think he should adopt radio silence for a bit. Danger of getting on SkySports going to his head. Interviews on Raith TV explaining to fans are great but not sure becoming rent a quote for the wider game is helpful for the club as a whole. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by roverthemoon

[Guest Ecosse83]

One thing that's clear to me is the way they have handled it probably means no relegations, it would be too much hassle for them dealing with lawyers etc. 

It will either be null and void which Celtic won't allow or some kind of bigger league next season which Celtic just might allow to happen of it means they get 9 in a row this season. 

 

[raith1974]

11 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

See this is where you lose goodwill from me. This we were top for how many weeks and you couldnt beat us in 3 games blah blah blah. That has nothing to do with this whole thing.  You were top on the random weekend that the season finished thats all that matters at the moment. It could quite easily  have been us the next weekend. Raith will go up quite rightly and that's there good fortune . We may well follow which is why we want there to be proper discussions on this instead of a here you go sign up to this and only then will u get any money demand.

Try 4 games we beat you in the cup. Goodwill left several days ago with the bitterness of some fans on here. We can't get promoted so why should you etc etc etc. In terms of being top of the league some random weekend, please let me know when Falkirk, Airdrie or East Fife were last top of the league. Its hardly some random week regarding Raith being top.

[Big Fifer]

19 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

At the end of the day, the SPFL have created this conflation of prize money and final positions and have painted it as the only available option. 

Indeed, which it absolutely isn't. This line that they cant just pay the money now and sort the league in future due to "regulations" is utter horseshit, it's a members organisation ffs. 

Gordon also answered those asking regarding the Clark stuff, I've been away an hour.

[Guest Ecosse83]

My goodness why is everyone constantly going on about promotion? You do realise it's relegation that's the issue, no league has been won so why should anyone have the right to promotion? 

Teams just can't be relegated without playing the sufficient amount of games, it would make a mockery of football. 

No relegation means no promotions, it's as simple as that!

[CALDERON]

9 minutes ago, roverthemoon said:

Don’t think you’re alone on this. Most folk I know think he should adopt radio silence for a bit. Danger of getting on SkySports going to his head. Interviews on Raith TV explaining to fans are great but not sure becoming rent a quote for the wider game is helpful for the club as a whole. 

Yeah, there's no point in sitting for 30 mins on Monday trying to reassure the fans, only to be quoted later that week in tnr press saying we could be in Administration in a few months. 

[renton]

2 minutes ago, Big Fifer said:

Indeed, which it absolutely isn't. This line that they cant just pay the money now and sort the league in future due to "regulations" is utter horseshit, it's a members organisation ffs. 

Gordon also answered those asking regarding the Clark stuff, I've been away an hour.

If changing the rule is as simple as s votes why hasn't it been tabled? Genuine question, would've figured a half dozen clubs could or should have brought that forward.

[Grangemouth Bairn]

11 minutes ago, raith1974 said:

Try 4 games we beat you in the cup. Goodwill left several days ago with the bitterness of some fans on here. We can't get promoted so why should you etc etc etc. In terms of being top of the league some random weekend, please let me know when Falkirk, Airdrie or East Fife were last top of the league. Its hardly some random week regarding Raith being top.

Raith are top of the league mate. Cup wins don’t gain you points towards your league campaign.