League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[JimmyMirren]

1 hour ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

Fair play to you, you've got to be one of the most persistent trolls on here ever.

Fixed that for you Ross...

[Broomhill Ultra]

16 - 10 - 20

Split the top league after two rounds, top 6 play each again twice to keep Sky happy. Bottom 10 play each other again once. Last game split gate so no financial loss for teams with one less home game. Actually looks a decent top flight to me, loads of derbies.

Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd, Dundee, Motherwell, Hamilton, Kilmarnock, Ayr Utd, Ross County, St Mirren, St Johnstone, ICT, Livingston

And the championship still got some big names

QOS, Morton, Falkirk, Raith Rovers, Dunfermline, Partick T, Arbroath, Alloa, East Fife, Montrose

20 team third tier with proper relegation/promotion to HL/LL, means an extra 4 teams up with no stinking colts so the league 2 strugglers will have more of a safety net, although should be relegated if they deserve it obviously.

[SouthLanarkshireWhite]

2 minutes ago, Broomhill Ultra said:

16 - 10 - 20

Split the top league after two rounds, top 6 play each again twice to keep Sky happy. Bottom 10 play each other again once. Last game split gate so no financial loss for teams with one less home game. Actually looks a decent top flight to me, loads of derbies.

Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd, Dundee, Motherwell, Hamilton, Kilmarnock, Ayr Utd, Ross County, St Mirren, St Johnstone, ICT, Livingston

And the championship still got some big names

QOS, Morton, Falkirk, Raith Rovers, Dunfermline, Partick T, Arbroath, Alloa, East Fife, Montrose

20 team third tier with proper relegation/promotion to HL/LL, means an extra 4 teams up with no stinking colts so the league 2 strugglers will have more of a safety net, although should be relegated if they deserve it obviously.

FFS - another 4 teams to spread the money around. Why not make it a round 50?

[Coventry Saint]

I certainly won't miss the endless posting of different league structure permutations.

[gannonball]

39 minutes ago, DumbartonBud said:

No myth peddling here, given the resources and pull that the OF have on young players their record at producing top players is woeful. 

Many of the OF players are capped just because they are OF players so your ‘team of internationalists’ is pretty irrelevant. 

Allowing the OF to have colt teams in the league so that they can secure future talent for Scotland as is proposed is perpetuating the mistakes of recent times. 
 

We need fewer young players going there not more. 

You could argue that Rangers might have a woeful record but not us. Seriously look at our record properly before you lazily lump the two of us together. Someone already has made the same mistake as you and got pulled up by myself and another non-celtic fan but I cant be arsed finding the quote and listing the players again.

Also If a player is getting a game for Celtic where often on paper It is better than the Scottish team then there is every chance they are going to get capped, its not irrelevant.

As for Colts I totally get the arguments against it but lets not just make up stuff when there already is valid arguments against it.
 

Edited June 9, 2020 by gannonball

[Green Day]

I am just back in - has there been any changes today or just more of the same tedium and conspiracy theories?

[EdinburghLivi]

lol

[Junior Pub League]

8 minutes ago, EdinburghLivi said:

lol

Third Lanark would argue that one.

[Alan Stubbs]

55 minutes ago, Tony Wonder said:

Equally, we aren't in England yet it's not stopped people on here using their ruling as an example of why Hearts are in the wrong to challenge.

The closest thing we've had to an explanation of the club's legal case from Hearts fans has been mentioning a UK Parliament Act. On that basis, English leagues following the same course of action is of more interest than what happens in France.

The reality of course, is that none of us have a clue about the legalities involved. So this news serves as a bit of background noise while the situation drags on for what seems like an eternity.

[Sergeant Wilson]

35 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

I certainly won't miss the endless posting of different league structure permutations.

It'll never end. There is a subspecies of football supporter, usually ones that don't actually go, they just go through every permutation infinitely.

[Bazil85]

2 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

You seem to be making a good argument for having colt/B teams in the lower leagues.
It's not just up to Celtic to provide players like you said the need for more young talent is obvious, the status quo isn't working.
Whats more important winning trophies or bleeding young talent it's very hard to get the balance right.
Celtic spent a lot of dosh on the youth setup so it needs to produce for me it's getting better but still needs to improve.

I have little doubt the colt teams will improve Celtic & Rangers youth development. That isn't the argument against it (if you're a Celtic & Rangers fan anyway). 

- To fill these teams, they'll likely sign even more promising young players making it more difficult for other teams (St Mirren for example, would we have gotten Morgan, McLean, Baird etc if there had been a colt team for them to prove their worth at?) 

- As much as it may improve youth players for Celtic & Rangers, we need to be producing far better players overall than that level to get the national team back where we belong. The best young Scottish players will generally need to be playing at a much higher level at these ages

- It will turn a number of fans of many clubs away from the game, plenty have stated it for years, every time this subject comes up (self included) 

As for your other points, I don't see Celtic's youth getting any better, don't see Ralston lasting the pace, Henderson is a doubt, Miller is away, they haven't produce a quality player since Tierney (with Johnston still far from proven). Rangers is even worse, I can only think of McGregor as someone in their strongest squad of 18 that's been through their youth academy & he's almost 40. Argument for Gilmour at Chelsea being a success but would he have been if he stayed at Rangers, given their success rate? Are these really clubs we are willing to trust with improving Scottish youth talent? Would we really be willing to take the hit of disenfranchising possibly thousands of Scottish football fans and devaluing potentially two of our leagues? It's got to be an absolute no from many clubs which means it's dead in the water, as it was last time it was proposed.  

For me the solution needs to be much more radical. Put all clubs on notice, in five years starting 11s MUST have 8 homegrown players. Definition of a homegrown player is someone trained in Scotland for a minimum 4 years before their 21st birthday (or under 21 and set to meet that requirement). Further break it down from those 8 players, 5 must have been developed through their own youth academy and  at least 3 of the 8 must be under 21. 

The argument might be, what about competitiveness in Europe? It's hardly an issue now, we aren't competitive in Europe and likely won't be anytime soon. There's also plenty of time to make sure this isn't a hindrance to that while developing quality young players. If this is implemented across Scotland, no one is disadvantaged in bleeding youth talent. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Bazil85

[DC92]

2 hours ago, JamesM82 said:

Although the report I've read says that the relegations of Amiens and Toulouse are only suspended, i.e. they might still be relegated if the French bodies are unable to agree a format that includes those two extra teams for 2020/21. French league tried to argue in court that they couldn't expand because they have a contract with the French federation (FA) to have a 20-team league, but the court said that wasn't relevant because that contract expires on June 30th. So if the French federation come back and say that the league has to have 20 teams, there won't be room for Amiens or Toulouse.

Very little of this seems relevant to Scotland, other than the simple principle of relegating based on a shortened season.

Yeah, I think the most relevant difference is that the LFP were saying reconstruction is impossible, which the French courts have found not to be the case. The SPFL can claim they've tried to implement reconstruction but there isn't the necessary support for it.

[DumbartonBud]

2 hours ago, gannonball said:

You could argue that Rangers might have a woeful record but not us. Seriously look at our record properly before you lazily lump the two of us together. Someone already has made the same mistake as you and got pulled up by myself and another non-celtic fan but I cant be arsed finding the quote and listing the players again.

Also If a player is getting a game for Celtic where often on paper It is better than the Scottish team then there is every chance they are going to get capped, its not irrelevant.

As for Colts I totally get the arguments against it but lets not just make up stuff when there already is valid arguments against it.
 

No I will argue it, with the massive turnover, year upon year of Champions league money, Lennoxtown and the tie up with the local school Celtic should have been a lot better with their conveyor belt of talent, certainly should be blowing every other team in Scotland out the water ..... or are the other teams over achieving?
 

I will agree with you that there are plenty of other arguments against colts though. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by DumbartonBud

[Tony Wonder]

1 hour ago, Alan Stubbs said:

The closest thing we've had to an explanation of the club's legal case from Hearts fans has been mentioning a UK Parliament Act. On that basis, English leagues following the same course of action is of more interest than what happens in France.

The reality of course, is that none of us have a clue about the legalities involved. So this news serves as a bit of background noise while the situation drags on for what seems like an eternity.

I agree totally about knowing really knowing the legalities.  Was just pointing out people are jumping on news items that suit their agenda. On both sides of it.

[LincolnHearts]

14-10-18 anyone?

[Zing.]

11 minutes ago, LincolnHearts said:

14-10-18 anyone?

Just like every other proposal so far that abomination wouldn’t get the required backing from the clubs. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Zing.

[JamesM82]

1 hour ago, DC92 said:

Yeah, I think the most relevant difference is that the LFP were saying reconstruction is impossible, which the French courts have found not to be the case. The SPFL can claim they've tried to implement reconstruction but there isn't the necessary support for it.

Which is why Hearts' best hope in a legal action might be to argue that the other clubs haven't been acting in good faith in those reconstruction discussions, and have in fact been trying to eff Hearts over. That might be hard to prove though. 

[theoriginalhedge]

Why the infatuation with 3 leagues?  The leagues of 10 with the play offs have made each of the lower leagues very competitive with very few meaningless games at the end of the season.  Can't see a problem with a 14-10-10-10 set up myself. 

To suggest an 18 or 20 team bottom  league smacks of getting the top 2 leagues sorted and f**k the rest off to do what they want. .............Oh and chuck a couple of colt teams in just to piss them off even more . ...................What do you mean they won't be happy ? ...........ok let's get the OF to  throw in £125k each. That'll do them. 

 

 

 

[D.A.F.C]

9 hours ago, DumbartonBud said:

He was actually dumped by Rangers as a youth before he could get near a Colts team, taken on and developed by St Mirren before being taken by Celtic and left on the bench. 
 

An ideal example of why kids shouldn’t be near the OF. 

We signed Lewis Martin from rangers who has been pretty much in the first team ever since and kept Celtic out almost single handedly in the cup. He’s better than half of the dross they’ve had since and can play in every position across the defence. Arguably one of the best defenders in the championship. Flip side we had a great young striker, PJ Crossan who left to go to Celtic and has disappeared after loans to Alloa. 
Genuinely these colt teams are going to have a negative effect on Scottish football. They will just snap up any talent and play them in the lowest division, players need games at the highest level possible. I tried to argue this point with a Celtic fan but when he said that teams will be all for it because they will get tv money I just gave up. You could, you know, actually go and support your local team maybe?

[D.A.F.C]

Have to say the only real youth talent has mostly come from Accies, Livingston and Hibs. This was achieved by playing young players early and giving them time. Don’t mean to go on but this colts thing is nonsense.