Benjamin_Nevis Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said: That's quite something from a fan of the club that caused this whole thing. Settle down pet. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 8GamesToGo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Just now, RandomGuy. said: THEY DIDNT END THE SEASON UNTIL MAY. OVER 2 MONTHS WENT PAST BETWEEN THE SUSPENSION OF THE SEASON AND THE OFFICIAL ENDING OF THE SEASON. WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY WERE DOING FOR TWO MONTHS? I've made this really easy to read, since I've already said this to you three times and you seem unable to process it. I can't await for your fourth attempt at arguing the league was called too early and a mid-May time wouldve more appropriate I CLEARLY SAID HOW ABOUT MID-JUNE FOR A DECISION. AS FOR WHAT THEY WERE DOING THEY WERE TRYING TO PUSH THROUGH THE DECISION THEY WANTED WHICH WAS TO END THE LEAGUE TO AVOID ANY POSSIBILITY OF NULL AND VOID. ANYHOW WE'LL MAYBE FIND OUT WITH ARBITRATION AS THE SPFL CERTAINLY DIDN'T TELL US THEY USED THOSE TWO MONTHS TO MOVE HEAVEN AND EARTH TO FIND A WAY TO PLAY THE LEAGUE TO A FINISH. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, 8GamesToGo said: It's not perfect but it's not a perfect situation is it? The WC is just an example of a lot of game sin a short period using hub stadiums. That could have been the model. Obviously fitness wouldn't be the best. So we use 5 subs and have water breaks and longer half times. Teams can play youth players. Of course we could have played the remaining games if the will was there to make it happen. Christ if small and large businesses can completely pivot their operations almost overnight to survive this thing, we could have collectively found a way to make it work. Yes, if you disregarded all the barriers to playing the rest of the games, and the will was there, you could have done it. You win. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 8GamesToGo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said: Yes, if you disregarded all the barriers to playing the rest of the games, and the will was there, you could have done it. You win. It's a challenging time. There are barriers. Also solutions. Would be nice to have at least tried . As I say maybe in arbitration we'll find out how the SPFL went about this and what sort of effort they put into other options or if it was all focused on pushing through ending the league. Edited July 8, 2020 by 8GamesToGo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Day Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 I did a little decluttering last night - feels good 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, 8GamesToGo said: It's a challenging time. There are barriers. Also solutions. Would be nice to have at least tried . You keep buying the myth that no one tried. Spend less time on Kickback. Every single player, club, fan, SPFL executive, Daily Record hack, moron on kickback wanted the remaining games to be played. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DA Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 9 hours ago, 8GamesToGo said: I haven't seen evidence because I don't know how hard the SPFL pushed to be in a position to restart the league. Or rather I do know, they didn't push at all because the called the league so early all they've focused on is starting the new season. Unlike other countries around Europe that somehow managed to successfully restart. Businesses everywhere have been lobbying governments to restart and change rules, etc etc. The SPFL could have put a plan together with all the safety protocols. They didn't even attempt to. I've seen evidence the government might let Scottish football start on August and evidence the SPFL have been pushing to get crowds in as early as possible, which has probably rubbed the government up the wrong way. How can I get evidence of the SPFL and government working together to help football start sooner when the SPFL took that option off the table by ending the league as early as they did. Scotland's curve started a couple of weeks later than other European countries so we're behind the curve on that one. The Scottish Government were busy saving lives and would not have listened favourably to any such requests from the SPFL. Before you say that we don't know until we try, I think we all know Nicola Sturgeon by now. Perhaps the board of the SPFL were like-minded and didn't want to put football ahead of controlling the pandemic. Your second paragraph even admits that pushing the Government 'rubs them up the wrong way'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 8GamesToGo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said: Settle down pet. Contact games have been announced as possibly starting this Saturday. Just thought it was relevant to the debate. If all these fans of clubs who voted themselves out of relegation trouble or to get their titles early want to believe there was no way to play the remaining games or to get some sort of temporary reconstruction done that didn't harm any clubs much more than others then that's up to them. Lord Clark said we have a case so we'll find something out one way or the other. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DA Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said: It's a challenging time. There are barriers. Also solutions. Would be nice to have at least tried . As I say maybe in arbitration we'll find out how the SPFL went about this and what sort of effort they put into other options or if it was all focused on pushing through ending the league. This is unlikely to be the focus of the arbitration panel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DA Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, 8GamesToGo said: Contact games have been announced as possibly starting this Saturday. Just thought it was relevant to the debate. If all these fans of clubs who voted themselves out of relegation trouble or to get their titles early want to believe there was no way to play the remaining games or to get some sort of temporary reconstruction done that didn't harm any clubs much more than others then that's up to them. Lord Clark said we have a case so we'll find something out one way or the other. So back in April/May, clubs were supposed to extend player contracts in the hope that football MIGHT be possible in July/August? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 8GamesToGo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: You keep buying the myth that no one tried. Spend less time on Kickback. Every single player, club, fan, SPFL executive, Daily Record hack, moron on kickback wanted the remaining games to be played. Could have fooled me. I don't remember any big discussion - certainly nothing led by the SPFL - about how to finish the league. All the talk was how null and voiding would be unfair, especially on Celtic. Their PR machine went into overdrive. The whole debate was framed as null and void vs end the league like they were the only two options. And even I agree end the league early is the preferable one there. Edited July 8, 2020 by 8GamesToGo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said: I CLEARLY SAID HOW ABOUT MID-JUNE FOR A DECISION. AS FOR WHAT THEY WERE DOING THEY WERE TRYING TO PUSH THROUGH THE DECISION THEY WANTED WHICH WAS TO END THE LEAGUE TO AVOID ANY POSSIBILITY OF NULL AND VOID. ANYHOW WE'LL MAYBE FIND OUT WITH ARBITRATION AS THE SPFL CERTAINLY DIDN'T TELL US THEY USED THOSE TWO MONTHS TO MOVE HEAVEN AND EARTH TO FIND A WAY TO PLAY THE LEAGUE TO A FINISH. By mid-May the government had already outlined "phases" to get out the lockdown, with competitive contact football being far enough away it obvious to anyone with a brain it wouldnt be possible to complete the season. And, as has now been proven, it turned it would be (unless you're a moron who's wanting teams to play a game every day for two weeks). They used the two months to try and convince the government to let them finish the season, that's why they held off while the lower leagues ended early. Your own club, who apparently are so desperate to avoid relegation and dont believe anything the SPFL say, agreed to end the season in mid-May. Why do you think Hearts, who have fought like f**k to avoid relegation, voted to end the season? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 8GamesToGo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, The DA said: So back in April/May, clubs were supposed to extend player contracts in the hope that football MIGHT be possible in July/August? Football has been possible in July and August for a while now. The Scottish gov allowed professional sport to restart on June 22. If the SPFL had had a plan to restart and hadn't ended the league way back when, they could have gone to the Scottish gov at start June and said "Look is there any way at all we can play closed door games starting mid June? How can we make that happen?" If they said no, end the league there and then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 8GamesToGo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: By mid-May the government had already outlined "phases" to get out the lockdown, with competitive contact football being far enough away it obvious to anyone with a brain it wouldnt be possible to complete the season. And, as has now been proven, it turned it would be (unless you're a moron who's wanting teams to play a game every day for two weeks). They used the two months to try and convince the government to let them finish the season, that's why they held off while the lower leagues ended early. Your own club, who apparently are so desperate to avoid relegation and dont believe anything the SPFL say, agreed to end the season in mid-May. Why do you think Hearts, who have fought like f**k to avoid relegation, voted to end the season? They didn't. Also the Scottish Gove said professional sport could start June 22. There was nothing about "contact football" (no-one has shown me a link saying definitively that couldn't;t happen until a specified date) as that was up for discussion. or would have been if the SPFL hadn't jumped to a decision too early. That's exactly what has happened in other countries. Dialogue has taken place between sports bodies and governments to come to solutions. Edited July 8, 2020 by 8GamesToGo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Just now, 8GamesToGo said: They didn't. Aye, they did. Maybe you should question why Budge was happy to end the season, and accept relegation, then go straight into a massive PR drive to make the SPFL and other clubs the villains of the piece. You've been completely fucked over by an owner who only cares about salvaging her own image amongst your fans, and she's not only cost you your top flight place through total dereliction of duty, shes now costing you a fortune in legal fees to save face. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 8GamesToGo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Aye, they did. Maybe you should question why Budge was happy to end the season, and accept relegation, then go straight into a massive PR drive to make the SPFL and other clubs the villains of the piece. You've been completely fucked over by an owner who only cares about salvaging her own image amongst your fans, and she's not only cost you your top flight place through total dereliction of duty, shes now costing you a fortune in legal fees to save face. They really didn't. It wasn't a vote. It was an agreement that games couldn't happen as per the current fixture schedule. Also we don't know (yet) what happened in that meeting and who said what. Who knows if reconstruction was actually being talked about seriously by folk who later changed their minds. You don't know. The simple fact is there WERE other options that didn't force 3 clubs to take the entire financial hit for the other clubs instead of spreading it around. Edited July 8, 2020 by 8GamesToGo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said: Could have fooled me. I don't remember any big discussion - certainly nothing led by the SPFL - about how to finish the league. All the talk was how null and voiding would be unfair, especially on Celtic. Their PR machine went into overdrive. The whole debate was framed as null and void vs end the league like they were the only two options. And even I agree end the league early is the preferable one there. Of course they did. Ending the season early comes with costs. TV Money owed to BT and Sky, fans were entitled to refunds on season tickets, the promotion/relegation issues, potential court action, reputational damage, reduced income. The list goes on. Do you really think in the face of all that clubs and the SPFL's concern was 'ohhh but null and void is unfair on wee Celtic, let's end the league's and give them their trophy, we'll pick up the bill for it'? No, they were thinking that they didn't know when they could play again, they wanted some sense of certainty to manage their short term cash flows, they wanted to be able to deal with expiring player contracts, to start planning, to give themselves some breathing space in an unprecedented situation, to protect the new and much bigger tv deal, to protect clubs interests in European competitions, to maximise the potential for fans in stadiums whilst clubs worked out the economic feasibility of behind closed doors games. They didn't know if they could stream games to fans, if they could justifiably sell season tickets. Again, the list goes on and on. They balanced the costs of the scenarios and made the sensible choice. Hearts weren't 'put down' or 'expelled' their relegation was an unfortunate consequence of an incredibly difficult situation, but ultimately justified given where they were in the league. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans on Toast Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Came on this morning to see 10+ new pages, thinking something exciting has happened. What an absolute let down. Mindless ramblings from some roaster who at one point said they don't consider 3 leagues to be multiple leagues. That's the type of logic you need to get around Hearts going down. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 8GamesToGo Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: Of course they did. Ending the season early comes with costs. TV Money owed to BT and Sky, fans were entitled to refunds on season tickets, the promotion/relegation issues, potential court action, reputational damage, reduced income. The list goes on. Do you really think in the face of all that clubs and the SPFL's concern was 'ohhh but null and void is unfair on wee Celtic, let's end the league's and give them their trophy, we'll pick up the bill for it'? No, they were thinking that they didn't know when they could play again, they wanted some sense of certainty to manage their short term cash flows, they wanted to be able to deal with expiring player contracts, to start planning, to give themselves some breathing space in an unprecedented situation, to protect the new and much bigger tv deal, to protect clubs interests in European competitions, to maximise the potential for fans in stadiums whilst clubs worked out the economic feasibility of behind closed doors games. They didn't know if they could stream games to fans, if they could justifiably sell season tickets. Again, the list goes on and on. They balanced the costs of the scenarios and made the sensible choice. Hearts weren't 'put down' or 'expelled' their relegation was an unfortunate consequence of an incredibly difficult situation, but ultimately justified given where they were in the league. Expelled into a 27 game league not starting until October and even that was only decided recently (talking of planning). Thistle didn't even know if clubs in their new league were going to play at all until recently. If it was so sensible why did they need that Dundee vote fiasco to get it done? What an embarrassment this whole thing has been from start to finish. And more to come. The sensible decision was try to play to a finish (or at least try harder than the SPFL did) and if that didn't work out reconstruct to avoid what has now happened. Edited July 8, 2020 by 8GamesToGo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, 8GamesToGo said: If it was so sensible why did they need that Dundee vote fiasco to get it done? What an embarrassment this whole thing has been from start to finish. And more to come. Sorry mate, you aren't reading a single word and you really are blinded to this. So I am out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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