George Floyd/Black Lives Matter Protests

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

2 hours ago, MixuFruit said:

I don't know if it's just the way it gets reported but I get the impression the police over here spend a lot of effort infiltrating environmental groups compared to fascists.

Id disagree. Both are high priority, but theres different considerations, if you have an enivronmental group threatening to essentially shut down airports (well probably at any other time than just now) and critical infrastructure or blocking access roads in cities including the pathways of ambulances etc, then that has serious consequences. Id say the vast majority of people support the general ideas behind slowing/eradicating climate change but disagree with the methods used by some of the more extreme groups. On the whole people in these environmental groups though tend to be very pleasant people to engage with. 
On the far right I would disagree that it’s not a priority, it really is, I think though that because a lot of the work done isnt always in the public eye and the actions of these groups arent always visible then you cant measure the two comparatively. 

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

I just thought it was funny that one cause is very prominent in the public consciousness in this regard and another isn't.

Which one?

[Boo Khaki]

32 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

If anyone actually tried to get their guns off of them they'd fight to the death.

I know, and that's why it needs dealt with ASAP. 

They might be civilians, but generally speaking, when you start waving kit around, somebody else turns up with the next level gear. The fact these guys are now congregating openly in groups makes me think it's only a matter of time before somebody rolls up in a Humvee or such, with a few homemade adaptations, something seriously beefy on the roof, and wipes 20 of these clowns out in the blink of an eye. 

Not that I'd lose any sleep to be honest, but the way they are behaving, openly congregating and loitering, constitutes an escalation in itself. How long are they going to get away with antagonising people, shooting the odd protester, and generally acting like aggressive dickheads before somebody cracks and says 'f**k this'. Somebody with the hardware to make these twats look like the incels playing the hardman that they are. It's not as if there isn't serious kit in public hands in the US.

[welshbairn]

18 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Here’s a Twitter thread about the shooting from a New York Times reporter who has analysed a number of live streams.
 

 

 

 

"What did he do?.

"Shot someone."

"Get his ass."

Fine upstanding citizens imo.

[D.A.F.C]

Going back to my comment about Ian Wright I have to say I’m delighted that Charlie Nicholas and his fellow morons are going to be replaced by a more diverse, less stupid bunch of pundits.

[Gaz]

37 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

"He didn't go in to do him, he just mistimed it. He's not that sort of player."

"If anything, he's shot them too well".

[Silvio Tattiescone]

3 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

environmentalists. There's been a number of scandals involving undercover police lying to women and living with them in some cases, when the woman has though it was a genuine relationship. I'm not saying it hasn't also happened with far right infiltration, just that if it has, it hasn't been exposed in the way it has with environmentalists. On the face of it that makes it look like the police have been prepared to do this kind of thing for groups largely of the left, and perhaps not from the right. If you look at the list of infiltrated organisations in this article it seems like right wing ones don't really figure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_undercover_policing_relationships_scandal

Maybe left wing women are easy? 

[BFTD]

3 minutes ago, NewBornBairn said:

Maybe left wing women are easy? 

Maybe right-wing women are...

You know, I'm not going to finish that thought.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

10 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

environmentalists. There's been a number of scandals involving undercover police lying to women and living with them in some cases, when the woman has though it was a genuine relationship. I'm not saying it hasn't also happened with far right infiltration, just that if it has, it hasn't been exposed in the way it has with environmentalists. On the face of it that makes it look like the police have been prepared to do this kind of thing for groups largely of the left, and perhaps not from the right. If you look at the list of infiltrated organisations in this article it seems like right wing ones don't really figure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_undercover_policing_relationships_scandal

The sarcastic in me questions ‘would you want to shag a nazi?’  
 

But no in serious terms I totally disagree with that having happened, its despicable and inexcusable. Yes the people may have developed feelings etc environmentalists ey. Seem to be decent, principled folks so its possible to see why the relationship happened, but regardless of that its wrong. 

on a purely practical basis though in terms of the make up of these undercover teams, which were back at the time in question mostly made up of male heterosexual officers and the make up of most of the far right groups being male and quite largely homophobic its easy to see why we’re not seeing much recording of relationships between those.

[welshbairn]

10 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

environmentalists. There's been a number of scandals involving undercover police lying to women and living with them in some cases, when the woman has though it was a genuine relationship. I'm not saying it hasn't also happened with far right infiltration, just that if it has, it hasn't been exposed in the way it has with environmentalists. On the face of it that makes it look like the police have been prepared to do this kind of thing for groups largely of the left, and perhaps not from the right. If you look at the list of infiltrated organisations in this article it seems like right wing ones don't really figure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_undercover_policing_relationships_scandal

There are quite a few attractive women in influential positions in the environmental movements, can't think of any apart from girlfriends who keep their fackin maoths shat on the far right, apart from some absolute boilers. Maybe the undercover cops just find green babes more easy going?

[welshbairn]

34 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

 

These points make sense where the infiltration involved sexual relationships, however I believe I'm right in saying these were the minority of cases? There's a long list of organisations on that wiki page and they don't all correspond to a male policeman having a relationship with a female activist. I'm less interested in the ethics of those police that did form a relationship as it goes without saying it was unacceptable, more just I find it weird there's not much in that list that is far right.

That list is nearly all from last century, I'd imagine and hope they'd be targeting more far right groups these days, whatever the institutional bias.

https://www.ucpi.org.uk/who-is-involved/#police

Edited August 27, 2020 by welshbairn

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

HB even being mocked by The Onion now

https://www.theonion.com/blue-lives-matter-supporters-say-kyle-rittenhouse-not-r-1844869225

“Do we sympathize with this 17-year-old police admirer’s desire to live out a long-nurtured militia-man fantasy of patrolling the streets and administering justice? Certainly. Does the real blame ultimately lie with the people who were shot for failing to obey his orders? Of course. Nonetheless, we cannot condone Rittenhouse’s decision to pull the trigger without a badge.”

[Gaz]

Maybe no-one wants to volunteer to infiltrate far-right groups because then you'd need to live with and pretend to be friends with folk on the far-right?

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, Gaz said:

Maybe no-one wants to volunteer to infiltrate far-right groups because then you'd need to live with and pretend to be friends with folk on the far-right?

It would be a stretch to find a volunteer to shag Nigel Farage.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

6 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is we're maybe living today with the consequences of not treating these groups in the past as needing the same attention as the "threat" posed by anti 3rd Heathrow runway protestors or whatever. 

The dynamic of both types of groups makes that a more complex comparison, on the whole groups like the environmentalist groups are easier to infiltrate in terms of placing someone into them as they are in essence open groups keen to grow. In far right groups membership is closely vetted and it would be more difficult to put someone in undercover, its more likely to be that with far right groups they rely on other intellogence gathering options like sources within the group or types of surveillance.

[Boo Khaki]

21 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

Back on topic: I see.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1299026266868203520

It's laughable. Lawmakers and those in charge of upholding it are basically saying the US is a fucking shambles that we've lost control over, so go ahead alt-right, nazis, racists, got-toting good ole boys, take your guns and "clean it up" for us.

The fact they think it's the BLM lot and antifa protesters that are the 'out of control' group that needs reined back in is cognitive dissonance level 9000

Edited August 27, 2020 by Boo Khaki

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

39 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

 

I'm aware this is derailing the topic a bit but I'm quite uncomfortable with ease or appeal being factors in this context. 

Well im sure they try but if its more difficult to do then the levels of success wont be the same. If its easy to place an undercover cop in a far left group and there are lawful grounds to do it you can’t say oh no we can’t do that because its harder to infiltrate a right wing group and we’ve got to have even numbers of undercover cops in each side. Like I said they have other methods of disrupting far right groups, which have obviously been largely successful on the whole. 
I dont think appeal comes into it, well I know appeal doesn’t come into it. 

[welshbairn]

33 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

Back on topic: I see.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1299026266868203520

The whole thing is worth a watch.

"These trash came down and stole $6000 of TOMMY HILFIGER CLOTHING!!!!
They don't need to be out."

He thinks that people who do badly at school are the type to end up shoplifting, and should be locked up in warehouses for the rest of their lives, with no recreation time, and when they die they can turn the warehouses into shopping malls or Amazon depots. JG Ballard stuff.

https://rumble.com/v4b335-kenosha-county-sheriff-reacts-five-milwaukee-suspects-charged-in-pleasant-p.html

[Benjamin_Nevis]

9 hours ago, MixuFruit said:

Back on topic: I see.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1299026266868203520

Fucking hell 

'Murica really does have an absolutely enormous number of white middle-aged inadequates with uniforms, guns but absolutely no social awareness or intelligence. It's been said a few times on here, but I genuinely believe they are a handful of race-related deaths and riots away from a full-on bloodbath/civil war. I read on the BBC piece about Kenosha yesterday that it wasn't long before civilians armed with automatic weapons and in their "military fatigues" started gathering to "protect statues". 

How do you even explain that to your wife? "Honey I'm just nipping out with the AR-15 to threaten some black folk".

9 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Well im sure they try but if its more difficult to do then the levels of success wont be the same. If its easy to place an undercover cop in a far left group and there are lawful grounds to do it you can’t say oh no we can’t do that because its harder to infiltrate a right wing group and we’ve got to have even numbers of undercover cops in each side. Like I said they have other methods of disrupting far right groups, which have obviously been largely successful on the whole. 
I dont think appeal comes into it, well I know appeal doesn’t come into it. 

Far right groups are invariably full of fucking imbeciles and fall apart with little encouragement from anyone else. The BNP fell away as Britain First became a thing - however Britain First was little more than a Facebook page. Their "rallies" never really attracted large numbers. Someone posted a link up a few years back to an article an undercover reporter had done about a Britain First "Annual conference" which was attended by about 40 folk in some shithole pub in the midlands.

Most of the fash groups end up fighting each other and splintering into even smaller groups which are little more than a tiny platform for bald ICF wannabees to spout racist shite. Even Tommy Robinson's attempts to bring his far right pish into the mainstream have turned into a shambles, ably assisted by his hilarious coke-fuelled video rants. He's trousers tens of thousands of pounds from his idiot supporters so he barely needs to bother any more. The Far Right in the states do seem far more organised and far more sinister. 

 

[Silvio Tattiescone]