George Floyd/Black Lives Matter Protests

[Bairnardo]

I have posted it in here before and I am not trying to big myself up, just to add some context to this comment. I am qualified to practice law in America, and my sister and her family actually lived in Kenosha for five years, and I've visited the town. For those reasons, I took a particular interest in this case, and I have watched A LOT of the raw videos of the trial. I think that this was legally the correct result.
Once the defendant raised self-defence, the prosecution has d to disprove it beyond all reasonable doubt. The prosecution had to show that the Defendant did not have a reasonable belief his life was in danger beyond all reasonable doubt. In this case, there existed some form of uncontroverted evidence of danger in respect of each shooting. 
For the first shooting, the deceased was chasing the accused having made threats to the accused's life earlier in the evening. 
The second count, which arises from the first shooting and covers the risk to bystanders of firing your weapon, didn't fall to be considered once self-defence was established for the first. 
The third to fifth shootings all happened while the accused was on the ground, with people around him attacking him and shouting "get him", and with members of the crowd having previously fired shots in the air.
For the third shooting, the guy jump kicked the accused in the head. 
For the fourth, the guy was bashing the accused with a skateboard. 
For the fifth, the guy was stepping towards the accused and pointing his weapon at him.
In each of these instances, there is enough context that I would expect a jury to find him not guilty. There is enough to create a reasonable doubt that he may have genuinely feared for his life and that such fear was reasonable. It doesn't mean he definitely feared for his life, but there's enough there to require a jury to find self-defence. 
His moral culpability is a different matter. We know he travelled to a protest with a rifle. The prosecution and defence have different versions of why and what he's like as a person. It's a different country and the truth is hard to find. 
I also think the judge handled the case superbly. I don't think he was biased at all. A bit of a character, but impartial, and legally correct in every decision I saw him make based on the submissions made to him. 

The media coverage of the case has been a pure circus and a good example of why I really hate the way media cover and are allowed to cover ongoing trials. One opinion piece after another on why this trial actually represents this or that.

f**k off. It represents legal due process in whether certain legal tests are met in order to convict/exonerate person A of charge B and so on.

Honestly, the judges fucking ringtone..... Give me strength.

[Michael W]

I get the acquittal of the murder charges, given the fact pattern. 

What I don't is that he was charged with illegal possession of a weapon as well. What happened to this charge? I know nothing about the US legal system, but I thought that one looked pretty clear cut. 

[Priti priti priti Patel]

15 minutes ago, Michael W said:

I get the acquittal of the murder charges, given the fact pattern. 

What I don't is that he was charged with illegal possession of a weapon as well. What happened to this charge? I know nothing about the US legal system, but I thought that one looked pretty clear cut. 

Everyone thought it looked clear cut, but essentially the statute was written in a strange way which created a loophole for people aged 16-18. It looks like the statute was just drafted erroneously, but once the defence highlighted the actual wording to the judge, he couldn't do anything other than dismiss the charge. Expect to see the Wisconsin legislature amend the legislation asap, assuming they're not gun nuts. 

Edit: I am trying to load the Wisconsin legislature website to quote the legislation but it's not loading. I presume too many people are trying to access it.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Priti priti priti Patel

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

Travis McMichael was scared. He is innocent. Set him free. He was scared. 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

32 minutes ago, Priti priti priti Patel said:

I have posted it in here before and I am not trying to big myself up, just to add some context to this comment. I am qualified to practice law in America, and my sister and her family actually lived in Kenosha for five years, and I've visited the town. For those reasons, I took a particular interest in this case, and I have watched A LOT of the raw videos of the trial. I think that this was legally the correct result.

Once the defendant raised self-defence, the prosecution has d to disprove it beyond all reasonable doubt. The prosecution had to show that the Defendant did not have a reasonable belief his life was in danger beyond all reasonable doubt. In this case, there existed some form of uncontroverted evidence of danger in respect of each shooting:

• For the first shooting, the deceased was chasing the accused having made threats to the accused's life earlier in the evening. 
• The second count, which arises from the first shooting and covers the risk to bystanders of firing your weapon, didn't fall to be considered once self-defence was established for the first. 
• The third to fifth shootings all happened while the accused was on the ground, with people around him attacking him and shouting "get him", and with members of the crowd having previously fired shots in the air.
• For the third, the guy jump kicked the accused in the head. 
• For the fourth, the guy was bashing the accused with a skateboard. 
• For the fifth, the guy was stepping towards the accused and pointing his weapon at him.

In each of these instances, there is enough context that I would expect a jury to find him not guilty. There is enough to support the idea that he genuinely feared for his life, and that such fear was reasonable. It doesn't mean he definitely feared for his life, but there's enough there to require a jury to find self-defence. 

His moral culpability is a different matter. We know he travelled to a protest with a rifle. The prosecution and defence have different versions of why and what he's like as a person. It's a different country and culture. The truth about his moral culpability is hard to find. 

I also think the judge handled the case superbly. I don't think he was biased at all. A bit of a character, but impartial, and legally correct in every decision I saw him make based on the submissions made to him. 

You could have just said thank god the white guy got off with murder. Saved a lot of time.

[Priti priti priti Patel]

Just now, Melanius Mullarkey said:

You could have just said thank god the white guy got off with murder. Saved a lot of time.

lolol I could have, but my girlfriend, a black American*, would not have been very happy.

 

*(that's something else I have posted on here before, in case you think I am just making shit up)

[paul-r-cfc]

I get the acquittal of the murder charges, given the fact pattern. 
What I don't is that he was charged with illegal possession of a weapon as well. What happened to this charge? I know nothing about the US legal system, but I thought that one looked pretty clear cut. 

Judge dropped that charge I'm sure. One of several strange decisions he made.

[doulikefish]

Hiya swampy hiya pal

[G51]

I’m surprised anyone saw this going any other way.

The trial was little more than a spectacle for people’s entertainment. Much like politics itself is. 

Plenty of people will learn plenty of bad lessons from this, when really only a few matter: 

1) Being rich/having money means you can get away with anything, and 

2) The US justice system is fundamentally corrupt, which means it’s working exactly as it’s supposed to.

[welshbairn]

39 minutes ago, Priti priti priti Patel said:

For the first shooting, the deceased was chasing the accused having made threats to the accused's life earlier in the evening. 

The second count, which arises from the first shooting and covers the risk to bystanders of firing your weapon, didn't fall to be considered once self-defence was established for the first. 

The third to fifth shootings all happened while the accused was on the ground, with people around him attacking him and shouting "get him", and with members of the crowd having previously fired shots in the air.

For the third shooting, the guy jump kicked the accused in the head. 

For the fourth, the guy was bashing the accused with a skateboard. 

For the fifth, the guy was stepping towards the accused and pointing his weapon at him.

If it had been anyone else than a young white man running around with an AR15, the people who tried to stop him would have been called heroes. 

[Priti priti priti Patel]

Just now, welshbairn said:

If it had been anyone else than a young white man running around with an AR15, the people who tried to stop him would have been called heroes. 

Agreed.

[welshbairn]

3 minutes ago, doulikefish said:

Hiya swampy hiya pal

Quick change from delivery boy for a Chinese restaurant to qualified US lawyer.

[Mark Connolly]

40 minutes ago, Priti priti priti Patel said:

I am happy for him.

I know you've put a caveat on this, but I can't see how you can be "happy" for a vigilante who killed two people, and injured a third, with an AR-15

[jamamafegan]

46 minutes ago, Priti priti priti Patel said:

it was incredibly emotional watching the boy as the verdicts were read out. I am happy for him. My happiness for him will last as long as he stays out the spotlight. I really, really hope he continues his nursing degree down in Arizona and has a quiet, peaceful life.

State of this.

[dirty dingus]

My verdict is a kid should never be armed with a rifle, never mind turning up 20 miles away at a flash point dressed as Rambo and out to own the Libtards. America is fucked. I've been predicting a civil war within ten years think when/if Trump gets back in it will go full tonto.

[Bairnardo]

My verdict is a kid should never be armed with a rifle, never mind turning up 20 miles away at a flash point dressed as Rambo and out to own the Libtards. America is fucked. I've been predicting a civil war within ten years think when/if Trump gets back in it will go full tonto.

We are fundamentally different from Americans. If nothing else comes from this, take that from it. We might look the same and sound the same, but we would struggle to be further apart culturally.

Our frame of reference doesnt allow us to view the little scrote turning up to something thats none of his business with a gun as being anything other than the very heart of the problem, yet over there that face is largely inconsequential.

Their country is nothing line ours.

[Moomintroll]

11 minutes ago, paul-r-cfc said:

Judge dropped that charge I'm sure. One of several strange decisions he made.

Nah he dropped the charge that there was no chance of getting a not guilty verdict past the Jury no matter what, utterly disgusting yet so predictable from the very start of the shitshow. That cesspit is beyond parody & this opens the door for every "Patriot" to do what they want to save 'Murica for God and Donald with no comeback.

[Priti priti priti Patel]

24 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

I know you've put a caveat on this, but I can't see how you can be "happy" for a vigilante who killed two people, and injured a third, with an AR-15

I totally understand that.

No-one will agree with me, and I am not trying to convince anyone here. But, to explain why I feel the way I do, I am happy for him because I don't honestly believe he went there wanting to kill people. I suspect he had a missplaced sense of self-importance, and just wanted to posture with his gun. I can forgive him being a p***k because he was only 17 and we were all p***ks at that age, and I can forgive him the interest in guns because that's a nationwide insanity.

Having just turned up trying to play the big man, things have then got out of control, he couldn't handle it, and he's ended up doing something horrific. I am happy that he gets a chance to rebuild his life rather than being jailed for life without parole. If he shows that he has refused to learn his lesson by going on Fox News etc, then I won't be happy for him and I will think he is still a p***k who should have learned his lesson.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Priti priti priti Patel

[dirty dingus]

4 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

We are fundamentally different from Americans. If nothing else comes from this, take that from it. We might look the same and sound the same, but we would struggle to be further apart culturally.

Our frame of reference doesnt allow us to view the little scrote turning up to something thats none of his business with a gun as being anything other than the very heart of the problem, yet over there that face is largely inconsequential.

Their country is nothing line ours.

I know that as I have no contact with my right wing christian family over there due to their mentalness and I'd rather hang out in downtown Kabul than visit the states these days. Oh and as an aside they are all armed. 

[Priti priti priti Patel]

16 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Quick change from delivery boy for a Chinese restaurant to qualified US lawyer.

I am not Swampy but amusingly I did deliver food for various restaurants - including Chinese restaurants - whilst getting my qualifications.

I am away to watch the QOS match but will be on to read what a c.unt I am afterwards.