Shandon Par Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Violence begets violence. Regardless of who you vote for, The Scottish govt in recent months comes across as being a fairly calm, open-minded body. Compare it with Trump’s “when the looting starts the shooting starts” pathetic, childish, reactionary pish. Of course there’s still Individual racists in Scotland but there’s maybe not the same concentration of inner city black communities here who face that same sense of police persecution and isolation as in London. There is the occasional mini-riot (more along the lines of kids goading police than torching shops) in Scotland and in Dunfermline, parts of it used to be a no-go area for police at weekends. The system in America brutalises big chunks of society then punishes them for turning out that way. Change has to come from the top. No sense telling people not to be angry at someone in their community being murdered in cold blood by the authorities. Hard to see how it can change so long as they obsess over guns 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, Boostin' Kev said: Don't think the depth of marginalisation the looters feel take this nice wee objective sentiment into account at the time. Yeah I know but in terms of actually achieving anything rather than a temporary venting of anger, someone is going to have to start thinking in these terms. Only saying it because I'd like to see an effective movement tackle institutional racism in America and really shine a light under the rock, and it might take militant action of some sort too, but its not nicking tellys at the first opportunity. Fighting for change is a fucking hard thing to do, looting a shop is a fairly easy thing to do. I dont think entrenched feeling of injustice (and correctly so) is any sort of excuse for not seeking out the most effective route to change even if it means stifling your own rage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: Fighting for change is a fucking hard thing to do, looting a shop is a fairly easy thing to do. I dont think entrenched feeling of injustice (and correctly so) is any sort of excuse for not seeking out the most effective route to change even if it means stifling your own rage. It's not a choice, criminals will take advantage of the protests when the police are out of the area, then a few more will join in. Same in London. It's not something planned by the protesters and nearly impossible for them to stop. Meanwhile Trumpy is doing his level best to calm things down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, welshbairn said: It's not a choice, criminals will take advantage of the protests when the police are out of the area, then a few more will join in. Same in London. It's not something planned by the protesters and nearly impossible for them to stop. Meanwhile Trumpy is doing his level best to calm things down. Which is why IMO it's perfectly ok to call out the looters as being harmful to the cause 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 45 minutes ago, Boostin' Kev said: US Five O get the gas face. I listened to audio of Serch and Pete Nice getting tore into each other the other day. Safe to say they're no longer friends. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 14 minutes ago, welshbairn said: It's not a choice, criminals will take advantage of the protests when the police are out of the area, then a few more will join in. Same in London. It's not something planned by the protesters and nearly impossible for them to stop. Meanwhile Trumpy is doing his level best to calm things down. That’s a reference to MacArthur and Patton using fixed bayonets and tear gas against army veterans protesting in Washington in the 30s. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostin' Kev Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, Dee Man said: I listened to audio of Serch and Pete Nice getting tore into each other the other day. Safe to say they're no longer friends. Yeah Serch turned into a bit of a bellend unfortunately. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) Incidentally, yesterday I was cycling through the East End and my route took me past the plaque and mural commemorating the Battle of Cable Street: We look back on this with a massive sense of pride. It's all part of the national myth we've created around WW2: We weren't like the gullible Germans or Italians who fell for the fascist ideologies, we knew what was right and fought for it. Rule Britannia, God save the Queen etc. If the same thing happened today, a huge chunk of the media and the public would be calling the protestors violent thugs and defending the Blackshirts. Edited May 30, 2020 by Carl Cort's Hamstring 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Carl Cort's Hamstring said: Incidentally, yesterday I was cycling through the East End and my route took me past the plaque and mural commemorating the Battle of Cable Street: We look back on this with a massive sense of pride. It's all part of the national myth we've created around WW2: We weren't like the gullible Germans or Italians who fell for the fascist ideologies, we knew what was right and fought for it. Rule Britannia, God save the Queen etc. If the same thing happened today, a huge chunk of the media and the public would be calling the protestors violent thugs and defending the Blackshirts. What people don't realise is that the Blackshirts and Mosley were actually forced back by spirited debate and witty banter launched in the marketplace of ideas. 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 42 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: Which is why IMO it's perfectly ok to call out the looters as being harmful to the cause Sure, as long as you don't use them to blame the protesters for not marching peacefully. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 lol why are there kids/ manlets out there 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 31 minutes ago, ali_91 said: The reasons why people are looting need to be broadcast at the same time as this though. Centuries of oppression and marginalisation both socially and economically mean that the boundaries of right and wrong are not as straightforward in situations like this. Should people be looting? No. Is it understandable why people who are born at a considerable disadvantage because of their skin colour feel that they shouldn’t really care how they are viewed by a population that voted for an actual racist as their president? For me, yes. I don't disagree with any of this, but that doesn't change the fact that regardless of motivation, you will never garner any sympathy explaining why you nicked a tv. Especially not from the American public. Even the ones who are good and decent people who might sympathise with the cause probably wont be able to square that with blatant criminal activity. Its meat and drink for the racists who wish to explain exactly why its neccessary to oppress people based on skin colour, and theres evidently no shortage of them in positions of power in the US. 2 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Sure, as long as you don't use them to blame the protesters for not marching peacefully. Which of course, people with a vested interest in maintaining the racial divide will do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 1 minute ago, NotThePars said: lol why are there kids/ manlets out there Could be @Bairnardo 's American cousins. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Just now, welshbairn said: Could be @Bairnardo 's American cousins. Well.... One did NOT see that coming 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbigal Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Couple of coppers shot deid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Quote A 19-year-old man has died after shots were fired into a crowd of people protesting against the death of unarmed black man George Floyd. https://news.sky.com/story/george-floyd-death-protests-spread-across-us-and-turn-violent-11997198 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeWhoWalksBehindTheRows Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 The guy with the brolly smashing windows is a serving cop. Wtf is wrong with that country? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 1 minute ago, MixuFruit said: This guy must be in charge Great show. Watched it recently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostin' Kev Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 1 hour ago, ali_91 said: The reasons why people are looting need to be broadcast at the same time as this though. Centuries of oppression and marginalisation both socially and economically mean that the boundaries of right and wrong are not as straightforward in situations like this. Should people be looting? No. Is it understandable why people who are born at a considerable disadvantage because of their skin colour feel that they shouldn’t really care how they are viewed by a population that voted for an actual racist as their president? For me, yes. Boundaries of whether looting is ethical or not go right out the window when e.g. the Bronx looked like it had air strikes hit it in the mid to late 70's and the last KKK lynching and hanging was only 40 years ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbigal Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 The reasons why people are looting need to be broadcast at the same time as this though. Centuries of oppression and marginalisation both socially and economically mean that the boundaries of right and wrong are not as straightforward in situations like this. Should people be looting? No. Is it understandable why people who are born at a considerable disadvantage because of their skin colour feel that they shouldn’t really care how they are viewed by a population that voted for an actual racist as their president? For me, yes.Here's me thinking people looting was to get a free telly. You learn something new every day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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