WoSFL Premier Division thread

[An Absolute Imposter]

52 minutes ago, PossilYM said:

Great to see another cage heading towards the top league.

Enjoy

2 if Ashfield go up, still at Stepford I believe.

[Casey Jones]

4 hours ago, Shanner said:

They're not a failure if they win the play off. 

The horse has bolted a long time ago for the principles you are basing your argument on. Your logic means that only champions can ever be promoted but football at all levels is littered with scenarios where non-champions are promoted or allowed a qualification path of some sort. You get teams that finish fourth in their leagues become European Champions and have a look at how Scotland ended up at the last Euros. With that in mind I'm sure a team that's runner up in the WOS getting a shot at the LL playoff isn't going be setting any more relaxed a precedent than already exists. 

How many people think 4 English Teams getting straight into the Champions League groups is wrong, when the Scottish Premier League Champions have to go through 1-3 qualifying matches, before they can get a place in group stages (excluding last 3 seasons)?

Very very few! 

Perhaps supporters in the West should be more annoyed that Beith, who look like they will win the West Premier League for 2 year running, will not be given opportunity to progress to Lowland League as they don't have license? If they had, they may have got a promotion last/this year to the Lowland League, giving the licensed teams a better chance of winning league?

Again, teams in the West knew the rules before before they switched from the Juniors and also because of their own egos, waited longer in the transfer from Juniors than East Region teams? Most teams at the top of East Region embraced the changes required. Why were some teams in the West not so keen to progess to getting a license? 

Just think you guys need to get the chip off your shoulder. Get a license, win the West Premier League, then prove you are better than the champions of the East/South Region Champions. Darvel had a glorious chance of promotion, but blew it as most West supporters gloated at the time. Also, Tranent treated that play-off match much more professional- hence why they are in Lowland League and Darvel aren't. 

 

 

[energyzone]

4 hours ago, Casey Jones said:

How many people think 4 English Teams getting straight into the Champions League groups is wrong, when the Scottish Premier League Champions have to go through 1-3 qualifying matches, before they can get a place in group stages (excluding last 3 seasons)?

Very very few! 

Perhaps supporters in the West should be more annoyed that Beith, who look like they will win the West Premier League for 2 year running, will not be given opportunity to progress to Lowland League as they don't have license? If they had, they may have got a promotion last/this year to the Lowland League, giving the licensed teams a better chance of winning league?

 

 

Again, teams in the West knew the rules before before they switched from the Juniors and also because of their own egos, waited longer in the transfer from Juniors than East Region teams? Most teams at the top of East Region embraced the changes required. Why were some teams in the West not so keen to progess to getting a license? 

 

 

 

I don't think that's completely fair. The WOSFL was formed only a year or two after Linlithgow, Dalkeith, Boness etc applied for the EOS League. It's not as if the bigger East clubs were playing in the pyramid for decades beforehand.  And some of the West Lothian clubs remained Junior for a period afterwards.

The later transition to the pyramid was nothing to do with egos.  Some clubs didn't want to move over in the first place (which is fine) and others were told by the SJFA that the cost of joining would be eye-watering. 

What we have though is a situation where there are plenty of clubs in the WOSFL which could hold their own at a higher level but are being prevented from doing so due to the limited promotion opportunities.  That's what needs to change. Passage up and down the lower leagues should be much more fluid than it is just now.

In time this will change, as community clubs are promoted and the vanity projects go bust and the balance of power in the Lowland League shifts from self-protectionism.  Until then, let's just enjoy the best teams in the West all playing each other every season until one of them makes the inevitable leap upwards.

[Casey Jones]

4 hours ago, energyzone said:

I don't think that's completely fair. The WOSFL was formed only a year or two after Linlithgow, Dalkeith, Boness etc applied for the EOS League. It's not as if the bigger East clubs were playing in the pyramid for decades beforehand.  And some of the West Lothian clubs remained Junior for a period afterwards.

The later transition to the pyramid was nothing to do with egos.  Some clubs didn't want to move over in the first place (which is fine) and others were told by the SJFA that the cost of joining would be eye-watering. 

What we have though is a situation where there are plenty of clubs in the WOSFL which could hold their own at a higher level but are being prevented from doing so due to the limited promotion opportunities.  That's what needs to change. Passage up and down the lower leagues should be much more fluid than it is just now.

In time this will change, as community clubs are promoted and the vanity projects go bust and the balance of power in the Lowland League shifts from self-protectionism.  Until then, let's just enjoy the best teams in the West all playing each other every season until one of them makes the inevitable leap upwards.

Agree totally with your last two paragraphs. Just like the West teams, there are lots of East teams who can also hold their own at a higher level. 

Lots of East teams have much improved facilities now, something which more than likely which would never have happened had they stated in the Juniors set up. There will probably others who don’t want licenses, which is perfectly acceptable, as they are content with their current status. 

I just think that West teams were a bit late in joining the Pyramid system. Perhaps the East teams were more aware that staying in the Juniors was a lost cause. Bet most of the West Lothian teams, that joined the pyramid system later, are now regretting this as they are now on catch up, with some finding it hard to move up the current league ladders. 

[glensmad]

12 minutes ago, Casey Jones said:

I just think that West teams were a bit late in joining the Pyramid system.

You are aware that no West league existed in the pyramid until 2020, and as soon as one was formed the West Region SJFA told all of its member clubs to join the new pyramid league ? Every single West team joined the pyramid at the soonest possible opportunity. They couldn't join the pyramid any sooner as no pyramid league existed for them to join.

Edited May 3 by glensmad

[Burnieman]

17 hours ago, Casey Jones said:

Not the cleverest cookie and not for the 1st time. A non-league winner could put a champion from another region out, in a play off. Teams moving from the Juniors knew they had to get licensed if they wanted to progress.
 

If you win one of the top leagues and have a license, you have a deserved chance of getting promoted. If you don’t win the league, then right you should wait till the following season and hope you win your respective league (and be licensed) to get such an opportunity. 

I appreciate that you're not, but at least try and understand what is being proposed.  A League winner without a licence isnt being denied anything as you claimed. However, they do block the path for other clubs who are licenced.

[Burnieman]

1 hour ago, Casey Jones said:

There will probably others who don’t want licenses, which is perfectly acceptable, as they are content with their current status. 

Should those teams who are perfectly happy without the expense of a licence be able to spend more money on their squads to win the league and block progress? You've just underlined my point.

[Burnieman]

15 hours ago, Shanner said:

They're not a failure if they win the play off. 

The horse has bolted a long time ago for the principles you are basing your argument on. Your logic means that only champions can ever be promoted but football at all levels is littered with scenarios where non-champions are promoted or allowed a qualification path of some sort. You get teams that finish fourth in their leagues become European Champions and have a look at how Scotland ended up at the last Euros. With that in mind I'm sure a team that's runner up in the WOS getting a shot at the LL playoff isn't going be setting any more relaxed a precedent than already exists. 

Pretty much spot on.

[Casey Jones]

10 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

I appreciate that you're not, but at least try and understand what is being proposed.  A League winner without a licence isnt being denied anything as you claimed. However, they do block the path for other clubs who are licenced.

Funny guy Again, try and keep up (another red dot, no doubt,  incoming from you!).

I referred to a team as ‘non-league winner’! Beith win league and not licensed. Why should, for example Auchinleck, Pollok who haven’t won the league, then be given the chance of a play off against Broxburn to see who gets promoted? 

[Vanderbilt]

3 minutes ago, Casey Jones said:

Funny guy Again, try and keep up (another red dot, no doubt,  incoming from you!).

I referred to a team as ‘non-league winner’! Beith win league and not licensed. Why should, for example Auchinleck, Pollok who haven’t won the league, then be given the chance of a play off against Broxburn to see who gets promoted? 

Because they are the top licensed club.

The best club available in the West.

[Casey Jones]

14 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Should those teams who are perfectly happy without the expense of a licence be able to spend more money on their squads to win the league and block progress? You've just underlined my point.

No I didn’t underline your point. I was referring to teams like (again for example, say Ormiston). Don’t think they have a license yet and they may decide they do not with to progress to obtaining a license. It is very unlikely, my thoughts, that due to the size/structure of the club, that they would ever, in foreseeable future win the East Region Premier league.

[Casey Jones]

Just now, Vanderbilt said:

Because they are the top licensed club.

The best club available in the West.

I tried to explain that, above, regarding the Champions league scenario. 
 

I disagree that teams (best club available), who don’t win league, should be in a position to get to Lowland league. You think they should. All good - we don’t need to agree with everyone on this forum. 

[Stag Nation]

2 hours ago, glensmad said:

You are aware that no West league existed in the pyramid until 2020, and as soon as one was formed the West Region SJFA told all of its member clubs to join the new pyramid league ? Every single West team joined the pyramid at the soonest possible opportunity. They couldn't join the pyramid any sooner as no pyramid league existed for them to join.

Was there anything to prevent a dozen or so ambitious West Junior clubs getting together and forming such a pyramid league?

[Burnieman]

34 minutes ago, Casey Jones said:

Funny guy Again, try and keep up (another red dot, no doubt,  incoming from you!).

I referred to a team as ‘non-league winner’! Beith win league and not licensed. Why should, for example Auchinleck, Pollok who haven’t won the league, then be given the chance of a play off against Broxburn to see who gets promoted? 

I've explained why.

[FairWeatherFan]

44 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

However, they do block the path for other clubs who are licenced.

They don't block any path because the criteria is league champion. If you haven't won the league there's nothing being blocked.

38 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Should those teams who are perfectly happy without the expense of a licence be able to spend more money on their squads to win the league and block progress? You've just underlined my point.

Who are these teams by the way? Beith were getting pelters a little over a year ago. Then it turned out they were working on their license. You can work on a license and put out a championship winning team. It's not one or the other.

Seems to me there's been more stories of licensed clubs avoiding promotion chances than anything else: Buckie, Darvel, Brora, SCW, W&B

 

 

[Burnieman]

29 minutes ago, Casey Jones said:

No I didn’t underline your point. I was referring to teams like (again for example, say Ormiston). Don’t think they have a license yet and they may decide they do not with to progress to obtaining a license. It is very unlikely, my thoughts, that due to the size/structure of the club, that they would ever, in foreseeable future win the East Region Premier league.

I thought I was the one that wasn't very clever? Whitburn can go up this season to the Premier, Whitburn don't have a licence, Whitburn can conceivably win the Premier next season.  St.Cadocs and Gartcairn don't have licences but put a lot of money into their squads, they can win the WoS next season.

You said clubs not having licences is fine (I agree), which underlines my point that we need contingency to stop these non-licenced clubs from potentially blocking the Pyramid. 

[Burnieman]

4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

They don't block any path because the criteria is league champion. If you haven't won the league there's nothing being blocked.

Who are these teams by the way? Beith were getting pelters a little over a year ago. Then it turned out they were working on their license. You can work on a license and put out a championship winning team. It's not one or the other.

Seems to me there's been more stories of licensed clubs avoiding promotion chances than anything else: Buckie, Darvel, Brora, SCW, W&B

 

St.Cadocs and Gartcairn are two.  It doesn't take a lot of reading on here to understand they are well resourced on the pitch but nowhere near a licence off it.  Johnstone Burgh and Drumchapel are two more who are potentially coming up this season, Ashfield another who I understand now play in a cage.

[FairWeatherFan]

15 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

 

St.Cadocs and Gartcairn are two.  It doesn't take a lot of reading on here to understand they are well resourced on the pitch but nowhere near a licence off it.  Johnstone Burgh and Drumchapel are two more who are potentially coming up this season, Ashfield another who I understand now play in a cage.

How do you know who is or isn't close to a license?

And rechecking Beith's statement on licensing from a little over a year ago. They haven't been in the process because the SFA had already stopped taking new applications.

So instead of blazers trying to help themselves as usual. How about people start targeting the SFA for actively hurting the pyramid. Instead of playing out a series of hypotheticals on teams that aren't even in the division.

[Wos-observer]

Teams should only be eligible for play offs on sporting merit. Over the course of a season the best team wins the league.

 

My understanding is that Beith are moving towards achieving their license with the final hurdle being floodlights which had an application submitted to planning for, unsure what the latest is with it however you can’t say they are standing still and not making progress. I know there was issues with title deeds of land which had hindered them however as far as I am aware their club/committee are addressing the license issues and are hoping to be licensed. 

 

A better structure is to have the EoS and WoS premier league at Tier 5 along with the HL. LL teams then are allocated to regionalised tier 5 leagues. The winner of each region then goes into a mini league and the winner of that then play bottom of SPFL 2 for a place in the league. 

 

There are other issues as well such as ground sharing which shouldn’t be allowed at Tier 6, teams should have been told that they have 3 years to have their own ground where fixtures can be cast any Saturday without hindering the fixture secretary’s ability to cast fixtures. I don’t see any reason teams striving to be “more professional” do not want their own ground or can’t have their own ground. I think the league should introduce for Tier 6 the requirement for clubs to have their own facilities and bar ground sharing at this level and above and the SFA should also make it a requirement for licensing that clubs have their own ground. This filters up the leagues as well. It is a nonsense that clubs cannot have access to a pitch whenever the fixture secretary wants to cast a fixture. 

 

Synthetic surfaces should also be tested and verified on a yearly basis, certificates are past at initial install for a period of up to 10 years however that is based in a set number of hours in use, many of the synthetic pitches in the WoS premier league would fail to meet the standards set out in the SFA license and have only passed based on the initial certification document. I know for a fact New Tinto and Holm Park if tested would fail. Pitches that fail yearly checks should automatically void the clubs license status. Players should not be put at danger because of sub-standard playing surfaces. 

 

The issue with certain clubs’ grass parks also needs reviewed, despite considerable money being spent, Darvel’s pitch is already not fit for purpose. They aren’t the only one. If a pitch has failed a pitch inspection due to being waterlogged above a certain % then like the teams’ whose synthetic pitch fail to comply with the standards set out in the SFA licensing agreement, then the club is stripped of their license.  I know I have mentioned Darvel, so I am now expecting a war and peace statement from Benny Hill (Giruu) their new chairman.

 

Football is a sport that should be played on grass!

 

I am yet to see anyone other the odd Clydebank fan with blinkers on for Mr Bamford who done the deal for Broadwood, anyone that agrees or likes finals being held at Broadwood. Again, similar to point above, football is designed for grass. I went to the West of Scotland final on Sunday at Broadwood and was at it last year at Irvine Meadow, the final at Meadow Park was a far more enjoyable occasion, yes there were two clubs well supported there as oppose to a team like Darvel who have no real substantial fan base however on the whole as a venue it was a far better experience. Subject to what teams reach the final, for me the final should be at proper grounds where atmospheres can be generated and a game can be played on grass, the likes of Beechwood, Meadow Park and Newlandsfield should all be host venues. This five year deal with Broadwood is a joke, the fact we need to play it during a congested period of the season as a direct effect of Rangers Ladies using the pitch is shocking. The stewardship of Mr Bamford has been a joke, start to finish, nothing impartial about him. 

 

The main issue with the LL is not many in the WoS view this level as progression or a step up, it is full of teams with no fans. I went to the LL final a record ground of 627…and absolute joke. Teams like Broomhill, Gretna, Caley Braves, East Kilbride etc…have no fans. You have non-competitive teams competing in a league who can influence outcome and from one week to the next can field totally different level of team.  Progression should not make teams worse off due to lack of supporters from opposition teams. 

[glensmad]

38 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

Was there anything to prevent a dozen or so ambitious West Junior clubs getting together and forming such a pyramid league?

That's what effectively happened in 2020. Except the West Region SJFA then persuaded all of its member clubs to join the new league.