Playoff Semi Final , 18th October 2020

[Scary Bear]

When will the actual team line up be out?

[AngusTheBull]

2 hours ago, LiviLion said:

Liam Cooper is captain of a team in the Premier League and has played over (or very close to) 300 professional games.

Scott McKenna isn't and hasn't.

He’s captained a team three times in the Premier League. McKenna is also five or so years younger than him.
 

I actually think Cooper has played well for Scotland recently, and has partnered McKenna, and others, well. However, he’s not exactly Sergio Ramos. 

[kingjoey]

2 hours ago, Binos said:

If that comes to pass not one single club will release one single player

Where did you hear this

The daily record website

It was mentioned that FIFA are considering this on yesterday’s Sportsound. I’m sure that a lot of clubs will think of what individual players want. Celtic won’t be one of those.

Edited October 11, 2020 by kingjoey

[Forest_Fifer]

It was mentioned that FIFA are considering this on yesterday’s Sportsound. I’m sure that a lot of clubs will think of what individual players want. Celtic won’t be one of those.

That would destroy international football

[ewan14]

3 hours ago, Stellaboz said:

It's conveniently forgotten that Ferguson's goal against Italy was miles offside.

so !?

[ewan14]

3 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Again, I think that idea was very much crystalised by events in Argentina in 1978.  Obviously that Euro 2008 campaign also provided examples.

Once more though, I'd imagine most middling sides can point to famous, unlikely victories, fitting alongside dismal defeats to weaker nations.

You're also right in saying it's something that's stopped happening.  We're pretty guilty of writing off games against the big sides with our 'free hit' nonsense.  

There are far , far less diddy teams than there used to be

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, ewan14 said:

There are far , far less diddy teams than there used to be

Er, ok.  Thanks.

[Stellaboz]

so !?

So? Ohhh we were so hard done by! Woe is us! Blah blah etc bad luck etc.

[DiegoDiego]

There are far , far less diddy teams than there used to be

Really? Only one of the Nations League League D countries were UEFA members in 1978 and only three out of twelve League C nations.

[DA Baracus]

1 hour ago, ewan14 said:

There are far , far less diddy teams than there used to be

What? It's the opposite. There are far more diddy teams these days.

[John Lambies Doos]

True, but it had looked like petering our for a narrow and uneventful away win anyway before those two free kicks. The late equaliser was a kick in the nads though.

Yip. Ironically if it had finished 1 each instead of 2 each it would have been a great night, but instead a glorious failure

[BrigtonClyde]

On 09/10/2020 at 12:33, WATTOO said:

I just don't buy that though. We've got McGinn (who the English rave about), Armstrong and Tierney (although missing last night) are playing at the highest level as is Fraser, Christie (again missing) is one of our most important players and most definitely is a top player technically, McTominay is playing at one of the top club sides in the world and Robertson has been talked about as being one of the best attacking full backs in world football, so really it's got nothing at all to do with coaching or indeed even that particular personnel. It can only be style and tactics.

There's no pace in the play, no tempo and no movement, however watch these same guys playing for their club sides and it's like different players. You also have national sides such as Northern Ireland who have a collection of 2nd and even 3rd tier players but who perform much better than ourselves time and time again.

If we were doing a market valuation, then last nights team were probably worth at least 20 times more that the Israelis on the transfer market, however the best player on the pitch (by a mile) was the boy who plays for Vitesse Arnhem  but I doubt if anyone in football would rate him worth more than Andy Robertson or the absent Kieran Tierney.

I really wish I had the answer as I believed SC was a good appointment, however I'm just not accepting that our current plight has anything to do with poor coaching as that simply holds no water at all.

I'm not sure it is like watching different players, in some cases anyway, but there again the national side isn't made up entirely of players playing at the highest level in England or overseas.  This isn't just about the national side, our top club sides have faced the same kind of thing in European competitions against so called minnow countries for years.  It's mainly the midfield movement, use of space and creativity that others seem to develop better

IMO it's a mix of things up here, the type of player clubs tell their scouts to prioritize, the nature of coaching & the lack of a real Reserve league for the younger players to develop in.  But of course it also comes down to the national manager's approach to the game, choice of players available, getting the best out of what he's got.   Last night was an improvement for sure and Fraser's pace adds a lot.  The last 30 minutes was much more like it, but Israel moved it around quicker than Slovakia even allowing for the fact last night's team selection was better than Thursday's.

But if it's true as seems to be more of our younger lads are being picked up by clubs elsewhere, then further down the line that's promising.  We'll just have to see.

    

[Guest]

3 hours ago, BrigtonClyde said:

I'm not sure it is like watching different players, in some cases anyway, but there again the national side isn't made up entirely of players playing at the highest level in England or overseas.  This isn't just about the national side, our top club sides have faced the same kind of thing in European competitions against so called minnow countries for years.  It's mainly the midfield movement, use of space and creativity that others seem to develop better

IMO it's a mix of things up here, the type of player clubs tell their scouts to prioritize, the nature of coaching & the lack of a real Reserve league for the younger players to develop in.  But of course it also comes down to the national manager's approach to the game, choice of players available, getting the best out of what he's got.   Last night was an improvement for sure and Fraser's pace adds a lot.  The last 30 minutes was much more like it, but Israel moved it around quicker than Slovakia even allowing for the fact last night's team selection was better than Thursday's.

But if it's true as seems to be more of our younger lads are being picked up by clubs elsewhere, then further down the line that's promising.  We'll just have to see.

    

Forgetting all the individual circumstances of each match, the bottom line I suppose is that we're now unbeaten in our last 7 matches and while I've not been overly impressed with our performances I suppose I shouldn't be complaining as I was previously lauding the likes of Eire and N Ireland for winning ugly as it were.

As you say, we're now seeing more and more of our players moving abroad and down south to some of the major clubs and learning different skills so maybe things are starting to look up for us. Here's hoping !!

[BrigtonClyde]

2 hours ago, WATTOO said:

Forgetting all the individual circumstances of each match, the bottom line I suppose is that we're now unbeaten in our last 7 matches and while I've not been overly impressed with our performances I suppose I shouldn't be complaining as I was previously lauding the likes of Eire and N Ireland for winning ugly as it were.

As you say, we're now seeing more and more of our players moving abroad and down south to some of the major clubs and learning different skills so maybe things are starting to look up for us. Here's hoping !!

True, aye. If all players available they're decent enough, but I reckon to really get back up the levels it'll depend what's coming through.  But they seem to thing there's a few promising lads, so fingers crossed

[GordonS]

On 09/10/2020 at 12:33, WATTOO said:

I just don't buy that though. We've got McGinn (who the English rave about), Armstrong and Tierney (although missing last night) are playing at the highest level as is Fraser, Christie (again missing) is one of our most important players and most definitely is a top player technically, McTominay is playing at one of the top club sides in the world and Robertson has been talked about as being one of the best attacking full backs in world football, so really it's got nothing at all to do with coaching or indeed even that particular personnel. It can only be style and tactics.

There's no pace in the play, no tempo and no movement, however watch these same guys playing for their club sides and it's like different players. You also have national sides such as Northern Ireland who have a collection of 2nd and even 3rd tier players but who perform much better than ourselves time and time again.

If we were doing a market valuation, then last nights team were probably worth at least 20 times more that the Israelis on the transfer market, however the best player on the pitch (by a mile) was the boy who plays for Vitesse Arnhem  but I doubt if anyone in football would rate him worth more than Andy Robertson or the absent Kieran Tierney.

I really wish I had the answer as I believed SC was a good appointment, however I'm just not accepting that our current plight has anything to do with poor coaching as that simply holds no water at all.

The players you mentioned are midfielders and left backs. Our best goalscorer plays for QPR following a recent move from Livingston, our best centre halves play for Leeds, Nottingham Forest, Motherwell and Aberdeen and our best right back plays for Kilmarnock. Our other options up front are a guy who couldn't trap a bag of sand and a guy at Dundee Utd.

We don't have a spine. Look at the Wales team at the last Euros, they had a lot of limited players but they had Williams at centre half, Ramsey and Allen in midfield and Bale to score the goals. Northern Ireland had Jonny Evans, Aaron Hughes and Gareth McAuley at the back, in-form Niall McGinn and Steven Davis in midfield and Kyle Lafferty up front, who may be nothing special but his international scoring rate of 17 in 51 games is better than anything we've had in a while.

The definitive Scotland game of recent years is the 3-0 defeat in Slovakia. We had Fletcher, Snodgrass, Ritchie, Bannon and McArthur in midfield and we controlled the game there. But we never looked like scoring and every time they got at our defence, they did. 

If you can't defend and you can't score goals, not much else matters.

Edited October 13, 2020 by GordonS

[Marshmallo]

You're running down the Leeds United captain and in the same post bigging up Kyle Lafferty and Niall McGinn

[No_Problemo]

2 hours ago, GordonS said:

The players you mentioned are midfielders and left backs. Our best goalscorer plays for QPR following a recent move from Livingston, our best centre halves play for Leeds, Nottingham Forest, Motherwell and Aberdeen and our best right back plays for Kilmarnock. Our other options up front are a guy who couldn't trap a bag of sand and a guy at Dundee Utd.

We don't have a spine. Look at the Wales team at the last Euros, they had a lot of limited players but they had Williams at centre half, Ramsey and Allen in midfield and Bale to score the goals. Northern Ireland had Jonny Evans, Aaron Hughes and Gareth McAuley at the back, in-form Niall McGinn and Steven Davis in midfield and Kyle Lafferty up front, who may be nothing special but his international scoring rate of 17 in 51 games is better than anything we've had in a while.

The definitive Scotland game of recent years is the 3-0 defeat in Slovakia. We had Fletcher, Snodgrass, Ritchie, Bannon and McArthur in midfield and we controlled the game there. But we never looked like scoring and every time they got at our defence, they did. 

If you can't defend and you can't score goals, not much else matters.

Well no, our potential favoured back three includes players from Arsenal, Man United and Leeds. You then have a LWB from Liverpool and most likely RWB from Sheffield Wednesday. 
 

Pretty irrelevant who Dykes used to play for or indeed plays for if he scores every second game. 

Edited October 13, 2020 by No_Problemo

[GordonS]

55 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

Well no, our potential favoured back three includes players from Arsenal, Man United and Leeds. You then have a LWB from Liverpool and most likely RWB from Sheffield Wednesday. 
 

Pretty irrelevant who Dykes used to play for or indeed plays for if he scores every second game. 

One of that back three is a midfielder, converted because our centre halves are so bad. Another is a left back, though I think he can be a good centre half in time.

Sheffield Wednesday

[ewan14]

On 11/10/2020 at 22:06, DA Baracus said:

What? It's the opposite. There are far more diddy teams these days.

The Faroe Islands beat Greece in Greece in recent times ffs. Wake up !

[No_Problemo]

24 minutes ago, GordonS said:

One of that back three is a midfielder, converted because our centre halves are so bad. Another is a left back, though I think he can be a good centre half in time.

Sheffield Wednesday

Not sure what your point is. Tierney plays left centre half in a back three in every single game for Arsenal. The post I quoted was comparing clubs, that’s all I did in return. 

Edited October 13, 2020 by No_Problemo