French teacher beheaded

[coprolite]

9 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

It doesn't mean "non-denomination Christian" , it's meant to also cover faiths other than those from Christian branches. But this, and the argument as to whether teachers are 'instructing' or 'educating', and whether any religion should be taught as a subject in schools, leaving aside that it is covered in many other subject areas, is going way off topic.

Not sure it's that far off topic in a thread about a teacher being decapitated for allegedly mentioning religion. 

[Busta Nut]

3 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

It just isn't though is it?

Maybe not but there is enough of them. 

[GordonS]

10 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

Religion being the cause of nearly every conflict ever is enough to put it in the fucking bin IMO

 

Some conflicts not caused by religion:

The Rwandan Genocide

The Cold War

The Vietnam War

The Korean War

WW2 (we can agree this was a biggie)

WW1

The Boer War

The Crimean War

The Napoleonic Wars

Need I go on? And often when the sides in a conflict are different faiths, it's not the cause. In Northern Ireland they weren't killing each other over transubstantiation. It's an ethno-nationalist conflict.

 

[101]

16 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

Religion being the cause of nearly every conflict ever is enough to put it in the fucking bin IMO

 

Better to breed out greed first.

Possible unpopular opinion - the world would be a better place with more Buddhists running about

[Dundee Hibernian]

4 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I'm afraid you've completely misunderstood. It really does mean non-denominational Christian. A denomination is a part of a religion, not a separate religion. So Baptist and Anglican are denominations; Islam and Judaism are not.

Non-denominational schools in Scotland are required to offer religious instruction in Christianity, not in any other religion. Parents have a right to withdraw their children from this. 

Instruction and education are completely different things and this is slap-bang in the middle of the topic.

FWIW my wife is an RE teacher who has taught in both RC and non-denominational schools. She's somewhere between atheist and agnostic. Religious, Moral and Philosophical Studies is a brilliant course that unlocks the door to understanding the world.

Again, I disagree with you Gordon The part I've emboldened doesn't sit with the Scottish Government's documentation on Curriculum for Excellence, which states:

However, Scotland has for many generations also been home to other faith and belief traditions, never more so than at present. Scotland remains a country where people continue to be welcomed and we can expect Scotland to become increasingly diverse in the range of faith and belief traditions represented. RO in schools needs to be developed in a way which reflects and understands this diversity. 

But I'm sure you may offer a different interpretation. It's not religious instruction now, or religious education, it's religious observance.

 

[Busta Nut]

I have conceded that I was being over zealous in stating that the cause of nearly every one of them was a bit much. 

 

WW2 though, I am sure there was a religious element to part of that. Maybe not the cause though. 

Anyway. I think folk can believe in whatever ghosts n faeries they like it is still a lot of shiiiiiiiite.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

2 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

Maybe not but there is enough of them. 

Right but even if you take wars where Religion is considered a major casus belli it's not as simple as that.

Religion is a major part of society and a key part of culture, therefore it is a suitable justification for wars which have social, economic or political causes. It's why our forever wars now are against people who "hate democracy and capitalism", because that's the equivalent to religion in most mainstream western societies today. If you want someone's land it's easy to just point and say "they're a different religion to us, get 'em!"

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

I went to a catholic school and I can remember literally none of my religious education. 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

I remember RE in my secondary school being pretty open to teaching about other religions. The teacher was a youngish Irish guy who was as cool as f**k. Let us away a wee bit early on Friday afternoons etc etc. He quietly left after being caught shagging one of the French teachers in one of the many portakabins we had as classrooms. Annoyingly the school rector took over his classes until the end of term. He was a christian zealot - we had to recite the Lord's Prayer at the start of every class (as well as every morning at school assembly) and studies of other religions were binned immediately. Thankfully RE was only a required subject in 1st and 2nd year. 

[NotThePars]

15 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Right but even if you take wars where Religion is considered a major casus belli it's not as simple as that.

Religion is a major part of society and a key part of culture, therefore it is a suitable justification for wars which have social, economic or political causes. It's why our forever wars now are against people who "hate democracy and capitalism", because that's the equivalent to religion in most mainstream western societies today. If you want someone's land it's easy to just point and say "they're a different religion to us, get 'em!"

 

Not to jump in on someone who's already conceded but even in the typical examples like the Thirty Years War, Catholic France didn't fight on the grounds of religious belief, did they?

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

Just now, NotThePars said:

Not to jump in on someone who's already conceded but even in the typical examples like the Thirty Years War, Catholic France didn't fight on the grounds of religious belief, did they?

Correct, Richelieu was one of the leading figures of the "Protestant" side

[Shotgun]

Admittedly, it's been a long time since I was at school (Northern England 1967-1979) but Christianity was taught as fact throughout my primary school days. Church services, morning prayers, physical punishment for non-obedience, the works.  We also had RE at secondary school but by then, we were also being taught history and science. Also, most of us had grown up and recognised it for the mythology it is. Even so, I was given detention for wanting to know when we were going to be taught about anything other than Christianity.

Fast forward 20 years and jump 5,000 miles to the west. I was taking some evening classes, one of which was Comparative Religions. This was the "Here's what Christians believe, compare that to Islam, this is what Jainism is all about etc.) Very interesting it was too. One night on break, a Christian lad was chatting to a friend of his who wasn't taking the class. He was telling her how much he was enjoying learning this stuff but to his surprise and my amusement, she went ballistic. The very idea of an optional class, in a secular school, teaching what religions other than Christianity believe was outrageous to her. "They ain't got no right to do that!" was a direct quote.

Anyway, in my not at all humble opinion, Christianity should be taught in primary schools alongside Greek, Roman or Norse mythology. A collection of fables written by people to explain things they didn't understand. When children are older, they can learn about the political impact religion has had throughout history. If parents want their children to be taught that the bible stories really happened as told; then they can take them to church and/or Sunday school.

[Guest TheJTS98]

50 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

I have conceded that I was being over zealous in stating that the cause of nearly every one of them was a bit much. 

 

WW2 though, I am sure there was a religious element to part of that. Maybe not the cause though. 

Anyway. I think folk can believe in whatever ghosts n faeries they like it is still a lot of shiiiiiiiite.

Not sure you'll find many credible people prepared to call WW2 a religious conflict.

Not necessarily sticking up for religion here, but the common idea that religion has caused all the wars is miles off the mark.

Resources, land, power, and fear cause wars.

[Busta Nut]

Yeah I admitted I had embellished that for effect.

I also never called WW2 a religious conflict. I said there was a part of it that involved a religion.  That Hitler though, he did have it in for those pesky land owners. 

[Boghead ranter]

1 hour ago, Gaz said:

If by your own admission you're only speaking for yourself then how can you make blanket statements about how it's taught elsewhere?

Surely you can't possibly believe that your common garden CoE, RC or Protestant school will give equal credence to all religions.

ETA: It's nearly Easter. In a 'normal' school year pretty much every single "non-denominational" school would be having Easter services led by the local Minister and RE teachers. What percentage of schools do you think do the same for Eid or Yom Kippur?

All the Arbroath schools recognise this.

[coprolite]

1 hour ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Right but even if you take wars where Religion is considered a major casus belli it's not as simple as that.

Religion is a major part of society and a key part of culture, therefore it is a suitable justification for wars which have social, economic or political causes. It's why our forever wars now are against people who "hate democracy and capitalism", because that's the equivalent to religion in most mainstream western societies today. If you want someone's land it's easy to just point and say "they're a different religion to us, get 'em!"

 

Definitely the crusades though

[Mark Connolly]

1 hour ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

I went to a catholic school and I can remember literally none of my religious education. 

^^^Big team found

[Miguel Sanchez]

52 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

^^^Big team found

It was the first place I'd ever heard the word ***, too.

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, coprolite said:

Definitely the crusades though

Maybe not the Fourth tho! Definitely the funniest crusade in this humble historian's opinion.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

1 hour ago, coprolite said:

Definitely the crusades though

If you wanted to be pedantic there's geopolitical arguments about the crusades as well, but I don't doubt that the lads off to jerusalem were pious en masse in a way we can't really relate to these days, probably a good thing.