The ghosts of relegation

[craigkillie]

Having seen us on a few occasions being very good in this league and winning more than we lose, I'd rather just get back to that rather than having it happen in the Championship.

[GAD]

5 minutes ago, Scotty Tunbridge said:

 

Incorrect.

 

No it isn't.

[djchapsticks]

3 hours ago, The Marly said:

23 hours ago, tamthebam said:

I can remember Saints being Second Division also rans in the 1980s after a double relegation in successive seasons.
Geoff Brown came in, ASDA made an offer for Muirton, McDiarmid donated some land and Alex Totten assembled a tasty attacking team. I wouldn't have said if this hadn't happened Saints would still be in the bottom division as they're fairly big in Scottish football terms but you'd probably be on a par with Ayr United- old stadium, usually in the Championship but the top flight remains the promised land.
Anyway 
Pros: Not having the great unwashed of certain clubs visiting unless it's for cup ties
Challenging at the top is more exciting than mid table mediocrity
The Challenge Cup could be yours 
A derby with Dundee for fun and games
Being able to stand at a game if a club like Arbroath are in the Championship.
Probably better pies
Kick offs likely to be 3pm on a Saturday
Cons:
Less money
 

If Brown/Asda/McDiarmid hadn't happened I wouldn't say Saints would be in the bottom tier either. I'd say they would no longer exist.

Nah, I reckon they'd still be about in whatever capacity. A lot of Scottish football fans seem to underestimate just how hard it is for a club to totally go out of business. 

I mean taking the obvious Rangers jibes out for once, Airdrie are probably the most shocking one in living memory and even then they endured under a different guise. 

Clydebank and Gretna are the only other two to go. Both were horrendously mismanaged 

Even Accies and Clyde in the 80s and 90s managed to pull through some amount of shit and still survive. 

Even if it was at a Clyde or Airdrie level, St. Johnstone would have made it. 

[Radford]

Seen Saints relegated twice, so thankfully missed the double relegation in the mid-eighties and the shocking first season in the new Premier Division. 

We went down when they relegated three teams in 1994 and it was so tight for the final spot because of Mark Hateley playing centre back and in 2002 when we paid the price for not overspending like so many others. A lot of those clubs have struggled to recover from that period though. 

As someone else said, the only good season in the Championship is the one when you win it. You want to be playing the biggest sides and that's generally in the top division.

[AllyM]

20 hours ago, btb said:

No positives from relegation AFAIC for a diidy club like Saints the best we can hope for is a major Cup win and that can only happen if we're in the top flight - this season is a prime example 3/4 of the remaining clubs in the LC are diddy clubs but all from the top flight.

Seasons in the Championship are just wasting time since we won the Challenge Cup back in 05/06.

This is a good point. From about 2006 - 2014 , I'm pretty sure that we won less league games than any other team in Scotland (even East Stirling). Soul destroying season after season, except for a couple of crucial relegation games at Falkirk and Motherwell. Yet we got to two cup finals and won one of them in those years. We wouldn't have managed the latter without being in the top league.

[Cptn Hooch]

Seen us relegated twice by football and once by bureaucracy. The last relegation has led to possibly the best period in Livi's history with double promotion and a top half finish in the Premiership with wins over both sides of the OF and some other cracking results along the way. Relegation isn't all doom and gloom if you learn from it. Fans of teams like Partick who have tumbled down divisions after relegation must have nerves of steel

[Biscuits]

Seen us relegated more times than I care to remember but two of the most enjoyable seasons were when we won the championship. 99/00 under Tom Hendrie. Think I was at every game, pished, and we scored goals for fun that year.

Then the last time we won it. Not only because it was so unexpected but it was the first season my son really got into the saints. Now he's just obsessed and as someone mentioned earlier I think you do need to experience the lows to truly enjoy the highs.

It's what being a supporter of non old firm team is all about

[Arch Stanton]

9 hours ago, Radford said:

We went down when they relegated three teams in 1994 and it was so tight for the final spot because of Mark Hateley playing centre back

I think the 20 draws from 44 games had more to do with it.

[crispy]

3 hours ago, Biscuits said:

Seen us relegated more times than I care to remember but two of the most enjoyable seasons were when we won the championship. 99/00 under Tom Hendrie. Think I was at every game, pished, and we scored goals for fun that year.

Then the last time we won it. Not only because it was so unexpected but it was the first season my son really got into the saints. Now he's just obsessed and as someone mentioned earlier I think you do need to experience the lows to truly enjoy the highs.

It's what being a supporter of non old firm team is all about

Did this include Mark Yardley, Steven McGarry and Junior Mendes (?). Think I mind a game at Almondvale where the fans were on the park on the northeast corner after Yardley scored against us.

[stumigoo]

I was a bit too young in terms of being heavily influenced by football when we were relegated in the mid 90s, so it didn't really register with me. However, the following season I fell in love with football and what it meant to be a supporter going to games. Some of our away trips that year (and these were my first) still stick with me as being the most memorable whilst following United (Morton away being the particular highlight). 

We also had the Patrick Thistle playoff which was an unbelievable experience.

As was mentioned early on in this thread, the Championship is actually more fun if you go to games - the away days are better and the match day experience is more enjoyable.

Our last relegation was horrific though. That team featured a few players I had a real soft spot for and for what they had previously done for the club, so to see them fall out of the top-flight, and the atmosphere at the club and amongst the fans was brutal.

[Moomintroll]

22 hours ago, Radford said:

Seen Saints relegated twice, so thankfully missed the double relegation in the mid-eighties and the shocking first season in the new Premier Division. 

We went down when they relegated three teams in 1994 and it was so tight for the final spot because of Mark Hateley playing centre back and in 2002 when we paid the price for not overspending like so many others. A lot of those clubs have struggled to recover from that period though. 

As someone else said, the only good season in the Championship is the one when you win it. You want to be playing the biggest sides and that's generally in the top division.

Hateley actually had a decent game that day but I was glad he spent it at the wrong end of the pitch, still remember Tom Blacks free kick as if it was yesterday. Happier, simpler times.

[Lex]

Did this include Mark Yardley, Steven McGarry and Junior Mendes (?). Think I mind a game at Almondvale where the fans were on the park on the northeast corner after Yardley scored against us.

That’s the team, Barry Lavety joined later on aswell. Lots of last minute winners and beat a big spending Dunfermline under Jimmy Calderwood to the title, was great fun to watch.
Then went straight back down the season after.

We’ve won the wee league three times this century and they’ve all been fantastic in different ways. Would still much rather be in the Premiership right enough, the championship is fairly brutal and seeing your team regularly dropping points to part time teams isn’t good for the soul.

[LIVIFOREVER]

20 hours ago, Cptn Hooch said:

Seen us relegated twice by football and once by bureaucracy. The last relegation has led to possibly the best period in Livi's history with double promotion and a top half finish in the Premiership with wins over both sides of the OF and some other cracking results along the way. Relegation isn't all doom and gloom if you learn from it. Fans of teams like Partick who have tumbled down divisions after relegation must have nerves of steel

Ditto, the Bureaucracy one putting us down 2 divisions saw us getting  back to back promotions, from League Two back to the Championship, and the 2nd relegation saw our second back to back promotion when we went from League One up into the top flight, right fucking rollercoaster supporting Livi.

 

Both relegations were tough seasons to watch, the first from the old SPL was horrendous, we had the lowest points total in the league's history, dreadful dirge watching the likes of Greg Strong in defence, and our worst manager ever Paul Lambert taking us to our heaviest ever defeat, 7-0 at Easter rd. That season was even worse than our first administration, although it was a terrible experience and we feared for our club, at least we won a cup that year.

The second relegation was also tough, losing to Stranraer in the play offs after taking it to ET, coming back from the 5-2 1st leg defeat at Stair Park, to level the aggregate only to run out of steam and lose 2 goals and win 4-3 with an agg of Livi 6-8 Stranraer. However that turned out a blessing in disguise as it afforded Hoppy the opportunity to build a team that would win back to back promotions and form the foundations of playing in the top flight.

[Cptn Hooch]

Ditto, the Bureaucracy one putting us down 2 divisions saw us getting  back to back promotions, from League Two back to the Championship, and the 2nd relegation saw our second back to back promotion when we went from League One up into the top flight, right fucking rollercoaster supporting Livi.
 
Both relegations were tough seasons to watch, the first from the old SPL was horrendous, we had the lowest points total in the league's history, dreadful dirge watching the likes of Greg Strong in defence, and our worst manager ever Paul Lambert taking us to our heaviest ever defeat, 7-0 at Easter rd. That season was even worse than our first administration, although it was a terrible experience and we feared for our club, at least we won a cup that year.
The second relegation was also tough, losing to Stranraer in the play offs after taking it to ET, coming back from the 5-2 1st leg defeat at Stair Park, to level the aggregate only to run out of steam and lose 2 goals and win 4-3 with an agg of Livi 6-8 Stranraer. However that turned out a blessing in disguise as it afforded Hoppy the opportunity to build a team that would win back to back promotions and form the foundations of playing in the top flight.

For the relegation from the championship, I remember watching sky sports news on a tiny TV on a cruise ship while sitting next to a Stranraer fan...both of us glued to this wavy picture of Jeff Stelling. That night I made good use of the all inclusive drinks package.

[LIVIFOREVER]

2 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said:

8 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Ditto, the Bureaucracy one putting us down 2 divisions saw us getting  back to back promotions, from League Two back to the Championship, and the 2nd relegation saw our second back to back promotion when we went from League One up into the top flight, right fucking rollercoaster supporting Livi.
 
Both relegations were tough seasons to watch, the first from the old SPL was horrendous, we had the lowest points total in the league's history, dreadful dirge watching the likes of Greg Strong in defence, and our worst manager ever Paul Lambert taking us to our heaviest ever defeat, 7-0 at Easter rd. That season was even worse than our first administration, although it was a terrible experience and we feared for our club, at least we won a cup that year.
The second relegation was also tough, losing to Stranraer in the play offs after taking it to ET, coming back from the 5-2 1st leg defeat at Stair Park, to level the aggregate only to run out of steam and lose 2 goals and win 4-3 with an agg of Livi 6-8 Stranraer. However that turned out a blessing in disguise as it afforded Hoppy the opportunity to build a team that would win back to back promotions and form the foundations of playing in the top flight.

For the relegation from the championship, I remember watching sky sports news on a tiny TV on a cruise ship while sitting next to a Stranraer fan...both of us glued to this wavy picture of Jeff Stelling. That night I made good use of the all inclusive drinks package.

That game itself was a rollercoaster of emotions, i was heading out with my mates when we scored a goal to be only 1 behind, we sat down in the front row to watch the last couple of minutes, still needing another goal to level the agg score, and we bloody well scored again to take it to ET. We then did the walk of shame back up to our seats with everyone laughing as we past them to sit back down and watch the rest of the game, only to concede 2 goals and get relegated. Wishing we'd kept on going and left the first time. 

[CambieBud]

Pros- different clubs to watch and generally winning more games

Cons- the likes of Virginton polluting all the forums!

[EdinburghLivi]

I was 13 when we were effectively relegated away to Dunfermline in SPL 2005/06. We led twice in the game before losing 3-2 from a Noel Hunt palm into the net. I think we would have gone to 3 points behind with 3 to play, if we had won. I was pretty upset after the game but that was a terrible team that deserved to be relegated. That led to three seasons in the championship where we didn't seriously challenge for the title at any time. We were a bit unlucky that the several good players we had during those seasons didn't play together. 

The Championship 2015/16 relegation felt a bit more unlucky but was aided by some very poor recruitment from Mark Burchill (Moses Duckrell, Spas Georgiev & Jordyn Sheerin) and a transfer embargo early in the Summer window.  Darren Cole was made captain, Declan Gallagher went to jail and Dumbarton who finished 8th seemed to pull out wins at crucial times despite finishing with a far worse goal difference than us. Liam Buchanan and Jordan White both got 10 league goals so we really shouldn't have been in as much trouble as we were.  As has been said, we got scudded 5-2 away to Stranraer in the play-off semi final first leg before the ridiculous second leg where we scored two very late goals to take the game to extra time. The second was a laser of a free kick from Halkett from the edge of the box sparking wild celebrations. Unfortunately to get back into the game we had subbed on two strikers for more defensive players meaning the team was completely unbalanced and were easily picked off by Stranraer in extra time. I remember how gutted the young guys playing for us looked after the game. I just felt sorry for them as it was clear this would be the last time a lot of them would play full-time football. 

For the ones we kept full-time, the rest is history. 

Going by these records, we are clearly heading for another relegation in 2025/26.

Edited December 27, 2020 by EdinburghLivi