Financial collapse of Rangers FC in 2012

[AJF]

47 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

If that was true you wouldn't choose Rangers, oldco or newco, as the team to support. No danger you'd take your son or/and daughter to Ibrox and subject him/her/them to that toxic environment. Not if you had a semblance of decency in you anyway.

Give it a rest mate, I go to watch the football and support my team as I'm sure you do. Get off your moral high-horse and spare me the 'decency' lecture.

Football stadiums up and down the country have an element of bams and there are examples of sectarian/racist/unsavoury behaviour that can be found at almost all of them. Should kids be stopped going to any football ground if that's the case?

Because I choose to go to Ibrox you assume I have no "semblance of decency"? What a lot of pish.

Edited March 2, 2021 by AJF

[The Real Saints]

9.Do you think it was right for the other clubs in the SPL to have a say in whether Rangers were allowed to stay in the top league or not?

I don't, but not for the reasons that I think the poll creator will assume or portray it as when writing up his findings. Therefore I'm unable to answer it. If there were little text boxes underneath in which we could explain our thought process further, it might make things a bit easier. I don't think it was right for the other clubs to have a say because I don't think that Rangers should have been given any sort of opportunity to stay in the top league. Whereas I feel like this has been written from the perspective of someone who thinks that other clubs shouldn't have had a say because the end result was unfair on Rangers. 

 

11.Do you think everything was handled correctly by the SPL and SFA?

Again, I don't feel like there's any point in asking questions like this if you don't allow people to explain why they think one way or the other.

 

15.How do you think the SPL was affected when Rangers were put into the 3rd tier?

At no point were Rangers put into the 3rd tier (League One). 

 

17.With these Italian teams giving themselves an unfair advantage, similar to what Rangers were doing, do you think Rangers should have received the same punishment getting a points deduction and then being relegated only one league down?

As others have pointed out already, these two situations are obviously incomparable and don't take Rangers' liquidation into account.

 

20.Are you surprised how quickly Rangers have taken to become title challengers again?

This is an extremely 'Rangers fan' line of questioning. I'm not 'surprised' by how quickly they've taken to become title challengers again, but that's because it hasn't been at all quick. They made a hash of their rise up the leagues, taking two attempts to win the Championship, and have faced numerous embarrassments in the top tier before becoming legitimate title challengers for the first time this season.

 

 

Overall, an unimpressive survey. It needs a lot of work.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by The Real Saints

[Dons_1988]

12 minutes ago, AJF said:

Give it a rest mate, I go to watch the football and support my team as I'm sure you do. Get off your moral high-horse and spare me the 'decency' lecture.

Football stadiums up and down the country have an element of bams and there are examples of sectarian/racist/unsavoury behaviour that can be found at almost all of them. Should kids be stopped going to any football ground if that's the case?

Because I choose to go to Ibrox you assume I have no "semblance of decency"? What a lot of pish.

^^^ all the moral compass of Scott Wright

[Florentine_Pogen]

A big steaming pile of specious guff.

Fail.

[Sortmeout]

2 hours ago, AJF said:

Give it a rest mate, I go to watch the football and support my team as I'm sure you do. Get off your moral high-horse and spare me the 'decency' lecture.

Football stadiums up and down the country have an element of bams and there are examples of sectarian/racist/unsavoury behaviour that can be found at almost all of them. Should kids be stopped going to any football ground if that's the case?

Because I choose to go to Ibrox you assume I have no "semblance of decency"? What a lot of pish.

Would you take your kids on holiday to Iraq/Syria on the basis of “people get murdered every week in Glasgow” or would you choose to protect them from the chance of disgusting human behaviour?

Don’t answer as you’ve already told us.

[AJF]

14 minutes ago, Sortmeout said:

Would you take your kids on holiday to Iraq/Syria on the basis of “people get murdered every week in Glasgow” or would you choose to protect them from the chance of disgusting human behaviour?

Don’t answer as you’ve already told us.

That’s quite possibly the worst comparison I’ve ever seen drawn with folk attending a football match

[Monkey Tennis]

8 hours ago, bennett said:

 

You're making the same mistake as Rodney McKenzie did in not realising that once a player is registered with the SFA that registration remains valid.  As confirmed by the SFAs Sandy Byrson and also confirmed by Lord William Nimmo Smith.

 

I'm not making any mistake.  I'm simply observing that the players were improperly registered.  This is not contested and it resulted in a whopping fine.  A technicality apparently meant that registration couldn't be retrospectively revoked.

This technicality allowed Rangers to call themselves champions during the relevant years.  Oh, what glory.

 

 

 

Anyway Bennett, this is nice. I miss the old days.

[Monkey Tennis]

7 hours ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

Regarding the other point about "stripping titles" if you go into administration? Well, no, not necessarily. But if you are liquidated, then yes. Grow up and accept it. Or do what the Bairns did (see what I did there?) and pay back 100%, that's ONE HUNDRED F**KING PERCENT of your debt and carry on.

No.

You're conflating things in a way that's easily attacked.  The club that won those titles doesn't deserve to have them removed for entering administration, or even undergoing  liquidation.  Nobody has removed Third Lanark's honours.  The question of continuation is quite separate from that regarding title stripping.

Title stripping is only a consideration due to the way players were registered.   It seems that our student friend is not alone in failing to grasp this. 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

I thought it was a perfectly cromulent survey.

[Monkey Tennis]

5 hours ago, G51 said:

HMRC thought the best deal was the CVL, and they owned enough of the debt that they could force it. Hence they rejected the CVA and approved the CVL.

That's right.  Rangers made the mistake of owing so much money to an institution big and powerful enough to have no need to settle, indeed one with an obvious incentive to be seen not to.

It's not easy to mount a big moral defence of clubs who instead managed to settle with small local businesses, who had to settle for a few pence in the pound.  The fact is though that such clubs did manage to survive.  

[G51]

1 hour ago, Sortmeout said:

Would you take your kids on holiday to Iraq/Syria on the basis of “people get murdered every week in Glasgow” or would you choose to protect them from the chance of disgusting human behaviour?

Don’t answer as you’ve already told us.

 

20 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I'm not making any mistake.  I'm simply observing that the players were improperly registered.  This is not contested and it resulted in a whopping fine.  A technicality apparently meant that registration couldn't be retrospectively revoked.

This technicality allowed Rangers to call themselves champions during the relevant years.  Oh, what glory.

 

 

 

Anyway Bennett, this is nice. I miss the old days.

 

12 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

No.

You're conflating things in a way that's easily attacked.  The club that won those titles doesn't deserve to have them removed for entering administration, or even undergoing  liquidation.  Nobody has removed Third Lanark's honours.  The question of continuation is quite separate from that regarding title stripping.

Title stripping is only a consideration due to the way players were registered.   It seems that our student friend is not alone in failing to grasp this. 

 

1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said:

That's right.  Rangers made the mistake of owing so much money to an institution big and powerful enough to have no need to settle, indeed one with an obvious incentive to be seen not to.

It's not easy to mount a big moral defence of clubs who instead managed to settle with small local businesses, who had to settle for a few pence in the pound.  The fact is though that such clubs did manage to survive.  

Fucking calm down Greg, it’s soccer

[Monkey Tennis]

5 hours ago, AJF said:

I try my best to stay away from these types of debate as it often achieves very little.

I am also a little conflicted on the matter due to my occupation. Let's just say that I wasn't the most popular person on my supporters bus when the Rangers tax case became prominent 

So, on that basis, I wholeheartedly appreciate that liquidation occurred. If people use that as their measure of whether Rangers are still the same club, then they should feel free to do so.

My opinion, is unsurprisingly different. I see my football club as a team to support, a place to go and be entertained with friends and family. That still exists for me and my feelings towards Rangers has not changed since 2012. The duck test is how I like to see it - If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck then it is probably a duck. So, if it looks like Rangers, plays like Rangers, sounds like Rangers and are hated like Rangers, then it probably is Rangers.

I've actually got a fair bit of sympathy for this.  

That's why despite spending far too long on the BRALT, I never really get too animated over continuation.  As far as I'm concerned, the current Rangers is sort of new, given the events of 2012; and sort of old, given the markers of identity.  

I think it's daft to claim that this is a completely new entity with no connection to the old one.  Pretending liquidation is of no significance whatever though, is also daft, as proven by all those Rangers fans who once brandished red cards to it, while connecting it to the loss of history.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

44 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

No.

You're conflating things in a way that's easily attacked.  The club that won those titles doesn't deserve to have them removed for entering administration, or even undergoing  liquidation.  Nobody has removed Third Lanark's honours.  The question of continuation is quite separate from that regarding title stripping.

Title stripping is only a consideration due to the way players were registered.   It seems that our student friend is not alone in failing to grasp this. 

Point taken.

[BFTD]

24 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I think it's daft to claim that this is a completely new entity with no connection to the old one.  Pretending liquidation is of no significance whatever though, is also daft, as proven by all those Rangers fans who once brandished red cards to it, while connecting it to the loss of history.

I'd forgotten about that; the number of good Rangers men who were determined that their club was about to die, all that history would be lost (and apparently that would be a bad thing), etc.

Then the club died and suddenly that wasn't the case, with one or two exceptions. Not that their opinion should matter, but it was pretty amusing to see the desperate scramble to remain attached to an entity that was just the best ever, and not something new that was starting from scratch, which they'd no interest in.

[Sortmeout]

1 hour ago, AJF said:

That’s quite possibly the worst comparison I’ve ever seen drawn with folk attending a football match

I’m probably doubling down on a shit comparison but you get my point. 
 

If you choose to take your children to home games at Ibrox or Celtic Park you are basically increasing the chance for them to become bigots. In a similar vein to the chance I would take of my children learning a swear word or two going to Rugby Park.

[AJF]

42 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I've actually got a fair bit of sympathy for this.  

That's why despite spending far too long on the BRALT, I never really get too animated over continuation.  As far as I'm concerned, the current Rangers is sort of new, given the events of 2012; and sort of old, given the markers of identity.  

I think it's daft to claim that this is a completely new entity with no connection to the old one.  Pretending liquidation is of no significance whatever though, is also daft, as proven by all those Rangers fans who once brandished red cards to it, while connecting it to the loss of history.

Greenie for having a reasonable debate and the correct usage of a semicolon which is all too rare.

[AJF]

6 minutes ago, Sortmeout said:

I’m probably doubling down on a shit comparison but you get my point. 
 

If you choose to take your children to home games at Ibrox or Celtic Park you are basically increasing the chance for them to become bigots. In a similar vein to the chance I would take of my children learning a swear word or two going to Rugby Park.

You’ve compelled me to see the error of my ways and I will use my time productively in an attempt to salvage a semblance of decency.

[Sortmeout]

1 hour ago, AJF said:

You’ve compelled me to see the error of my ways and I will use my time productively in an attempt to salvage a semblance of decency.

If you want to promote bigotry as something you are ok with then carry on.

[G51]

  radicalising my five year old son into hating his catholic mother by buying him an overpriced cap from the rangers store

[bennett]

1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I've actually got a fair bit of sympathy for this.  

That's why despite spending far too long on the BRALT, I never really get too animated over continuation.  As far as I'm concerned, the current Rangers is sort of new, given the events of 2012; and sort of old, given the markers of identity.  

I think it's daft to claim that this is a completely new entity with no connection to the old one.  Pretending liquidation is of no significance whatever though, is also daft, as proven by all those Rangers fans who once brandished red cards to it, while connecting it to the loss of history.

Old times indeed.

 

Watch you don't get a splinter from that fence.