Aberdeen's Next Permanent Manager

[DukDukGoose]

48 minutes ago, Swello said:

Half of me is massively cynical and half of me loves the type of stuff in that linked article.  If anyone asked me what I want from my team, I'd say "intensity and pace that gets me off my seat", while my inner voice would be saying "a win of any description, no matter how shite it is to watch". 

For Aberdeen it is perfectly possible to have both a good team to watch and a high league finish (McInnes obviously delivered that a few years back) - but that isn't always going to be case and from what I've seen over the years, the Aberdeen support is never going to accept a team that are merely "good to watch" if Hearts and Hibs (or an actual diddy team) are finishing ahead of them.

I think the reality is that any new manager will be judged by his boss on the traditional criteria: how much money he makes the club in competitions, transfer fees and how many season tickets are sold (and I accept that style of play can play a (minor) role here).

@Dons_1988 pretty much covered it but we were playing awful football and no longer winning. That 'philosophy' came out when we'd finished behind a team with a much smaller budget for the third year in a row. It addressed quite a lot of the criticisms aimed at Derek. It was either something to get fans on board, a wake up call for Derek or both.

I could accept finishing below expectations if I've been entertained and can see the club has a clear path to progression. I can also accept finishing where we'd expect with shite football. I draw the line at finishing below expectations and playing shite football.

McInnes was very well backed. More than any manager I've seen at Pittodrie. Not just taking transfer fees and wage budgets in to consideration. The club trusted him to keep assets on to the end of their contract and lose them for nothing due to the money gained for finishing 2nd and 3rd. Hindsight is wonderful but if we were just going to replace them with free transfers then we probably should have been actively selling the players we did lose. 

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, kingjoey said:

I’m sure that I read it somewhere else, but the budget thing when you get below Celtic and Rangers is a bit of a red herring, no matter what wind up merchants would have you believe. The monetary difference between the rest of the Premiership and Celtic and Rangers is huge, but the monetary difference between Aberdeen, Hibs and the rest of the Premiership is pretty minimal. That has been proved with both Kilmarnock and Motherwell (twice) finishing above Derek McInnes’ Aberdeen, albeit on all three occasions they only just managed it. It would be very easy for a new manager of limited ability to slip out of the top six with the same budgets for all of the teams as they are now. In my opinion the main thing that separates where the ten other clubs finish in the league is the ability of the managers. 

 

Getting the manager right is important, but it is by far the only decisive factor, and budget is still a big part of it. Aberdeen could carry a fairly average manager and still expect to finish ahead of other clubs who have better managers. Aberdeen have more than double the wage bill of Killie or Motherwell and this means they should be finishing ahead of every single non-Glasgow or Edinburgh club every single year, and ahead of both Edinburgh clubs most years.

Killie finishing above Aberdeen required us to have the best manager in the country and achieve a club record points tally, and even then it was only on goal difference. That was with Aberdeen having a season which would probably be described as pretty good, but not amazing, by their standards.

I do agree that it is easy enough for Aberdeen with a bad manager to slip out of the top six, but that would be because there was a total failure on the club's part (which I think is quite likely with Cormack making this call), not just because of a slightly poor decision. I think Aberdeen could appoint a collective of Alex Dyer, Stuart Kettlewell and Jim McIntyre for three years and still not get relegated, which isn't the case for most other clubs.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

28 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

 

Getting the manager right is important, but it is by far the only decisive factor, and budget is still a big part of it. Aberdeen could carry a fairly average manager and still expect to finish ahead of other clubs who have better managers. Aberdeen have more than double the wage bill of Killie or Motherwell and this means they should be finishing ahead of every single non-Glasgow or Edinburgh club every single year, and ahead of both Edinburgh clubs most years.

Killie finishing above Aberdeen required us to have the best manager in the country and achieve a club record points tally, and even then it was only on goal difference. That was with Aberdeen having a season which would probably be described as pretty good, but not amazing, by their standards.

I do agree that it is easy enough for Aberdeen with a bad manager to slip out of the top six, but that would be because there was a total failure on the club's part (which I think is quite likely with Cormack making this call), not just because of a slightly poor decision. I think Aberdeen could appoint a collective of Alex Dyer, Stuart Kettlewell and Jim McIntyre for three years and still not get relegated, which isn't the case for most other clubs.

While I agree with you in the most part, I wouldn't say it was as quite as black and white as that. 

Outside the OF in Scottish football, there's generally very little difference in ability between not just SPL clubs, but clubs in the Championship as well. Being an old fart, I remember the days when a lower league club beating a top league club in one of the cups was not just a shock, it was a result that was so uncommon it reverberated around the Scottish game like a marble in a tin can. 

I'll give you the example of the Scottish cup tie against Motherwell in 1982 where Hewitt scored the fastest cup goal. Motherwell were top of the 1st division (may even have been undefeated at that time), had an excellent team, a big home support and were on their way to the Premer League even in January. But it still would have registered as a major shock if they had beaten Aberdeen (as it turned out, bar the first 10 seconds they xcompletely outplayed us).

Nowadays....and actually for the last 15 years or so....nobody would really bat an eyelid if say, Dundee beat St Mirren, or QoS beat Kilmarnock. The difference between the abilities of sides is much less than it was a generation ago. 

The point I'm stumbling to make is that there are very fine margins in Scottish football between the top 20 clubs or so (OF aside). Having a big budget isn't a guarantee against failure....as Hearts found out. It can be very, very easy for any team to slip from 3rd to 11th or 12th in the Premiership, in no time at all. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Bob Mahelp

[big al]

1 hour ago, gannonball said:

Perhaps but it still would be a significant factor especially if their families would want a say in it. 

I can remember reading Roy Keane’s autobiography and he was moaning about players wives pulling the plug on moves up to Sunderland and going to smaller London clubs. Wasn’t just foreign players either who would understandably want to live in a more multi-cultural city with decent sized communities from their background.

It is Sunderland though. 

[Bogbrush1903]

2 hours ago, CALDERON said:

If it is Glass, the bar has been set incredibly high for success

One League Cup you mean?

[Melanius Mullarkey]

2 hours ago, TheScarf said:

Given Pressley is from Elgin I just assumed he was a ***.

 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Can’t wait for the first Glass Bottle Crashes headline after the first 4-0 defeat to Celtgers.

[Bogbrush1903]

3 hours ago, kingjoey said:

 In my opinion the main thing that separates where the ten other clubs finish in the league is the ability of the managers. 

That's interesting, so I think I'm right in saying that you have a great respect for the ability of Derek McInnes. 

Therefore, do you think Derek McInnes would have Hamilton Accies finishing 3rd on a regular basis then? 

[Dons_1988]

3 minutes ago, CCB19035 said:

The brand of football brought on the results, though. 
 

We could all see it coming.

I think you've slightly missed my point, unless you think I was implying results and performances are totally exclusive from each other.

 

[Frank Grimes]

I’ve resigned myself to it being Glass and us being a Banter Years esque basket case for the next few years 

Just have a horrible feeling about all of this 

[Dons_1988]

7 minutes ago, CCB19035 said:

No, I get your point. 
 

I think I actually disagree, though. 
 

Say all the 0-0's we've had or 1-0 defeats were games we'd managed to score, do you think he'd have been punted?  

If we were sitting clear of Hibs in third then no, he wouldn't. Certainly not mid season.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

4 hours ago, Junior Pub League said:

This thread is full of utter roasters  who seem to think Aberdeen is the back of beyond.

Roasters= people who have been to Aberdeen or can look at a map?

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, Bogbrush1903 said:

One League Cup you mean?

I have a feeling you have a very distressing but enlightening few years ahead.

[Dons_1988]

9 minutes ago, CCB19035 said:

I'm more meaning if the results stayed the same, as in all our draws were still draws, and losses still losses, but we'd actually managed to score in these games, and still sat 3 points off of Hibs, I think he'd still be in a job.

 

So, that's where I disagree, I think what's killed him is the inability for the team to find the back of the net, due to our style of play.  If we were scoring goals still and the games weren't totally underwhelming turgid shite, it would probably just be chalked up as a bad run, rather than requiring a change.

 

It's all hypothetical in any case, and its ended in tears.

As @Frank Grimessaid, I think Diamond Dave is about to royally f**k us here.

I'm not sure the point is relevant as his demise didn't begin in the last 10 games, it just picked up pace.

 

[highland_mechanic]

6 minutes ago, CCB19035 said:

I'm aware of that.

Many of our fans though, think the demise only came about in the last two months. Which in itself, is a worry.

I reckon he would not have lasted beyond last summer if it hadn't been for Covid.

 

[Hedgecutter]

Stephen Glass being described as  "a somewhat unproven entity in management but someone who knows the club well".

So he knows f*** all about management and the club has had a complete turnaround in squad, backroom and upstairs personnel since he left Aberdeen 23 years ago, but... he knows how to get to the toilet from the Pittodrie boardroom, and that's got to count for something.

[RandomGuy.]

28 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said:

Stephen Glass being described as  "a somewhat unproven entity in management but someone who knows the club well".

So he knows f*** all about management and the club has had a complete turnaround in squad, backroom and upstairs personnel since he left Aberdeen 23 years ago, but... he knows how to get to the toilet from the Pittodrie boardroom, and that's got to count for something.

He's best mates with the chairman, that's all his cv needs.

[percyboy]

That p***k is from Forres nae Elgin

 

[Jacksgranda]

6 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

I have no issue winning with shite football tbh.

The problem with it is that it's impossible to maintain that and the combination of shite football and not winning becomes unpalatable for fans.

This probably doesn't reflect most Dons fans view but I think the entertainment value argument against Derek is a bit of a red herring. Of course it's a factor but only once results fall off. Yes our league position has held up reasonably well in the last few years but the points total (or points per game) is consistently falling, combined with a failure to win the 'big' games and a general lack of memorable moments. The mad Extra time at Rugby Park last season and the Ferguson winner against Rangers at Hampden are the last really big moments I can remember in the last few years.

TL;DR - It were results that has killed Derek in the end, not the brand of football.

Aye, you can put up with nearly anything if you're winning - "One nil to the Arsenal".

[Jacksgranda]

2 hours ago, Frank Grimes said:

I’ve resigned myself to it being Glass and us being a Banter Years esque basket case for the next few years 

Just have a horrible feeling about all of this 

We're all going to be over the moon when a fantastic managerial appointment wins us the Scottish Cup.

Being Aberdonians/Dons' fans we'll probably just be quite pleased.