Aberdeen's Next Permanent Manager

[Dons_1988]

6 minutes ago, Swello said:

I think the Aberdeen job is a tough gig TBH and I wonder what type of manager really suits it. Like Hearts supporters, Dons (rightly?) have a built in high expectation level based on having a bigger budget than other non-OF clubs but does that budget really make the sort of difference that people think it does? 

OF aside, in any given season, budget doesn't necessarily equal league placing and with that in mind, McInnes arguably has had Aberdeen punching their weight quite comfortably, which isn't easy. I get that he had probably hit his expiration date as over the number of years he's been in charge, there are lots of opportunities to erode goodwill from the support until you don't have much left to get you through a crap spell of form but this is arguably one of the harsher sackings of recent years.

By sacking a manager when you are in a European berth and 3 points off the highest realistic position that's available, you make the job description for the new manager pretty tough. It's basically "win cups and keep the league position the same or you've failed" and winning cups is much less of a science than being consistent in the league is (eg, I've seen 'Well in 4 finals since we won a cup and they've all been against good Celtic and Rangers sides rather than fellow diddies).

tl;dr: I'd be surprised if anyone that is a realistic prospect of taking the job could make a significant enough improvement to meet expectations.

There is a risk that somebody may be put off the role because of this.

But...if someone looks at it and thinks 'I can't do any better' or doesn't see a good foundation in place to build on things, is it safe to call them a shitebag?

[Dons_1988]

2 minutes ago, gannonball said:

I think also on the non-footballing side players 9 times out of 10 players are going to choose Hibs/Hearts over Aberdeen. Aberdeen having a bigger budget is often to encourage the same level of player just to stay in Aberdeen.

 

ETA - same could be said for Ross County competing with several central belt clubs. 

Ross McCrorie is on no more than what Hibs offered him.

[gannonball]

Just now, Dons_1988 said:

Ross McCrorie is on no more than what Hibs offered him.

He will be 1/10 then. What I am saying is the social aspect is underrated so Aberdeen will generally have to offer a bit more for the same type of player. Clearly there are other factors involved though.

 

[kingjoey]

10 minutes ago, Swello said:

I think the Aberdeen job is a tough gig TBH and I wonder what type of manager really suits it. Like Hearts supporters, Dons (rightly?) have a built in high expectation level based on having a bigger budget than other non-OF clubs but does that budget really make the sort of difference that people think it does? 

OF aside, in any given season, budget doesn't necessarily equal league placing and with that in mind, McInnes arguably has had Aberdeen punching their weight quite comfortably, which isn't easy. I get that he had probably hit his expiration date as over the number of years he's been in charge, there are lots of opportunities to erode goodwill from the support until you don't have much left to get you through a crap spell of form but this is arguably one of the harsher sackings of recent years.

By sacking a manager when you are in a European berth and 3 points off the highest realistic position that's available, you make the job description for the new manager pretty tough. It's basically "win cups and keep the league position the same or you've failed" and winning cups is much less of a science than being consistent in the league is (eg, I've seen 'Well in 4 finals since we won a cup and they've all been against good Celtic and Rangers sides rather than fellow diddies).

tl;dr: I'd be surprised if anyone that is a realistic prospect of taking the job could make a significant enough improvement to meet expectations.

I’m sure that I read it somewhere else, but the budget thing when you get below Celtic and Rangers is a bit of a red herring, no matter what wind up merchants would have you believe. The monetary difference between the rest of the Premiership and Celtic and Rangers is huge, but the monetary difference between Aberdeen, Hibs and the rest of the Premiership is pretty minimal. That has been proved with both Kilmarnock and Motherwell (twice) finishing above Derek McInnes’ Aberdeen, albeit on all three occasions they only just managed it. It would be very easy for a new manager of limited ability to slip out of the top six with the same budgets for all of the teams as they are now. In my opinion the main thing that separates where the ten other clubs finish in the league is the ability of the managers. 

[capt_oats]

5 minutes ago, gannonball said:

I think also on the non-footballing side players 9 times out of 10 players are going to choose Hibs/Hearts over Aberdeen. Aberdeen having a bigger budget is often to encourage the same level of player just to stay in Aberdeen.

ETA - same could be said for Ross County competing with several central belt clubs. 

I think another tough aspect is that a number of clubs up here have got their shit together in terms of financial stability and player trading.

You're in a position now where mid-tier Premiership clubs are able to move on players to Championship clubs in England. There's no need for a player to make a (relatively) sideways move to progress their career, assuming England is where they want to play.

Moult was a decent example I suppose although by all accounts he was set on moving back south regardless. McInnes/Aberdeen offered us a 6 figure fee with a year left on his deal. We knocked it back, kept him for 6 months and moved him on to Preston in January for more than Aberdeen were offering the previous summer and he landed on £10k p/w or whatever.

In that respect Aberdeen aren't just competing for players with your Hearts/Hibs but also Championship clubs in England.

[Junior Pub League]

5 minutes ago, gannonball said:

He will be 1/10 then. What I am saying is the social aspect is underrated so Aberdeen will generally have to offer a bit more for the same type of player. Clearly there are other factors involved though.

 

This thread is full of utter roasters  who seem to think Aberdeen is the back of beyond.

Embarrassing take M5

Edited March 11, 2021 by Junior Pub League

[Dons_1988]

Just now, gannonball said:

He will be 1/10 then. What I am saying is the social aspect is underrated so Aberdeen will generally have to offer a bit more for the same type of player. Clearly there are other factors involved though.

 

It's a factor but I'd say you're overplaying it tbh. I wouldn't say we pay a massive premium just to drag people out of the central belt. I'd suggest rapport with the manager, proposed role in the team, ways of working, training facilities etc are at least just as significant.

The 'if wage is equal, 9/10 will always choose Edinburgh' I just don't buy to be honest.

[CALDERON]

If it is Glass, the bar has been set incredibly high for success for someone with practically zero senior managerial experience.  

[gannonball]

Just now, Junior Pub League said:

This thread is full of utter roasters  who seem to think Aberdeen is the back of beyond.

Embarrassing take M5

What ? I have lived in Aberdeen on and off for about 3 years lol. Im not saying it’s isolated its just a bit shit tbh, especially compared to Edinburgh. I know house prices have come back in line a bit now though but that would also be a mitigating factor.

[Swello]

5 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

https://www.afc.co.uk/2020/06/25/aberdeen-football-club-unveils-football-philosophy-and-strategy/#:~:text=The Club is aiming to,feet%2C with intensity and pace.

This is what they're after.

 

Half of me is massively cynical and half of me loves the type of stuff in that linked article.  If anyone asked me what I want from my team, I'd say "intensity and pace that gets me off my seat", while my inner voice would be saying "a win of any description, no matter how shite it is to watch". 

For Aberdeen it is perfectly possible to have both a good team to watch and a high league finish (McInnes obviously delivered that a few years back) - but that isn't always going to be case and from what I've seen over the years, the Aberdeen support is never going to accept a team that are merely "good to watch" if Hearts and Hibs (or an actual diddy team) are finishing ahead of them.

I think the reality is that any new manager will be judged by his boss on the traditional criteria: how much money he makes the club in competitions, transfer fees and how many season tickets are sold (and I accept that style of play can play a (minor) role here).

[G51]

17 minutes ago, gannonball said:

I think also on the non-footballing side players 9 times out of 10 players are going to choose Hibs/Hearts over Aberdeen. Aberdeen having a bigger budget is often to encourage the same level of player just to stay in Aberdeen.

 

ETA - same could be said for Ross County competing with several central belt clubs. 

This is an interesting theory, and it's one I've seen put forward a few times by English journalists who think that the London teams will eventually have an edge over Liverpool, Manchester United and City for signing players because London can offer a lifestyle that those places can't.

There is something in it, but I think it's only really going to apply when Aberdeen are contesting a transfer with Hibs or Hearts. If it's another team (e.g. Livingston), Aberdeen will simply offer better wages which clinch the deal. Given how rare it is for Aberdeen and one of the Edinburgh sides to be in direct competition for a players signature, it's probably not an effect we'll see very often, but I think it does exist.

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, Swello said:

Half of me is massively cynical and half of me loves the type of stuff in that linked article.  If anyone asked me what I want from my team, I'd say "intensity and pace that gets me off my seat", while my inner voice would be saying "a win of any description, no matter how shite it is to watch". 

For Aberdeen it is perfectly possible to have both a good team to watch and a high league finish (McInnes obviously delivered that a few years back) - but that isn't always going to be case and from what I've seen over the years, the Aberdeen support is never going to accept a team that are merely "good to watch" if Hearts and Hibs (or an actual diddy team) are finishing ahead of them.

I think the reality is that any new manager will be judged by his boss on the traditional criteria: how much money he makes the club in competitions, transfer fees and how many season tickets are sold (and I accept that style of play can play a (minor) role here).

I have no issue winning with shite football tbh.

The problem with it is that it's impossible to maintain that and the combination of shite football and not winning becomes unpalatable for fans.

This probably doesn't reflect most Dons fans view but I think the entertainment value argument against Derek is a bit of a red herring. Of course it's a factor but only once results fall off. Yes our league position has held up reasonably well in the last few years but the points total (or points per game) is consistently falling, combined with a failure to win the 'big' games and a general lack of memorable moments. The mad Extra time at Rugby Park last season and the Ferguson winner against Rangers at Hampden are the last really big moments I can remember in the last few years.

TL;DR - It were results that has killed Derek in the end, not the brand of football.

[gannonball]

4 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

It's a factor but I'd say you're overplaying it tbh. I wouldn't say we pay a massive premium just to drag people out of the central belt. I'd suggest rapport with the manager, proposed role in the team, ways of working, training facilities etc are at least just as significant.

The 'if wage is equal, 9/10 will always choose Edinburgh' I just don't buy to be honest.

Perhaps but it still would be a significant factor especially if their families would want a say in it. 

Just now, G51 said:

This is an interesting theory, and it's one I've seen put forward a few times by English journalists who think that the London teams will eventually have an edge over Liverpool, Manchester United and City for signing players because London can offer a lifestyle that those places can't.

There is something in it, but I think it's only really going to apply when Aberdeen are contesting a transfer with Hibs or Hearts. If it's another team (e.g. Livingston), Aberdeen will simply offer better wages which clinch the deal. Given how rare it is for Aberdeen and one of the Edinburgh sides to be in direct competition for a players signature, it's probably not an effect we'll see very often, but I think it does exist.

I can remember reading Roy Keane’s autobiography and he was moaning about players wives pulling the plug on moves up to Sunderland and going to smaller London clubs. Wasn’t just foreign players either who would understandably want to live in a more multi-cultural city with decent sized communities from their background.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

17 minutes ago, Junior Pub League said:

This thread is full of utter roasters  who seem to think Aberdeen is the back of beyond.

Embarrassing take M5

I don't think I've ever read of a player leaving Aberdeen and saying that it was a backward shitehole of a place to live in. **

I have read though of Dutch players that we had and other foreign players talking about how it was a great place to bring up kids, and how they enjoyed having the beach and countryside on their doorstep. 

 

**Disclaimer - There are areas of the city that ARE backward shiteholes. And of course nobody mentioned the fact that the whole city and shire is full of miserable, moany ckunts.They must be keeping that one to themselves.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Bob Mahelp

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Aberdeen beach is shit. It’s fucking freezing and full of dogshit. 
 

 

[coprolite]

13 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

Aberdeen beach is shit. It’s fucking freezing and full of dogshit. 
 

 

That’s our former all weather training facility. 

[Dons_1988]

Just now, coprolite said:

That’s our former all weather training facility. 

Still better than Livi's pitch.

[Junior_Arab]

I think the thing about location may be a factor for Scottish players, most of whom are sadly Weegies. If they want to stay on the West Coast they can easily commute to Edinburgh, Perth, Dundee etc. Cammy Bell used to travel from Kilmarnock to Dundee (St Andrews) every day. Obviously Aberdeen is just that bit further, and they’re probably looking at moving house. Given that few players stay at a club for longer than 2 or 3 years now it’s a major upheaval especially if you have a wife with her own career, kids in school etc. 
 

Also, is Steven Presley just completely oblivious to the fact that pretty much every set of supporters in Scotland think he’s a diddy and would be mortified if he took over at their club? He obviously holds himself in pretty high regard. He more or less said he wouldn’t touch the United job with a barge pole, much to the relief of our fans and now thinks he’s in with a shout at Aberdeen, the 3rd biggest club in the country with a managerial CV that includes at best mediocrity at Falkirk, Coventry, Fleetwood, Pafos & Carlisle? The man’s delusional! 
 

And if he grew up an Aberdeen fan he’s kept it pretty well hidden every time I’ve heard his monotone ramblings on radio. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Junior_Arab

[TheScarf]

Given Pressley is from Elgin I just assumed he was a ***.

[G51]

15 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

Aberdeen beach is shit. It’s fucking freezing and full of dogshit. 
 

 

Unpopular opinion but the beach/Esplanade area is actually quite nice and Aberdeen CC should do whatever they can to get as many people visiting there as regularly as possible.

For all the stereotypes about Aberdeen being gray etc (and to be fair, driving into Altens at 8am on a Monday in February can feel particularly bleak), that part of it is lovely on a summers day.