Sarah Everard

[Tony Ferrino]

41 minutes ago, RiG said:

The tweet above has gone viral after it asked women what men can do to help them feel safer when walking alone. Some good responses advising men to move to the other side of the street / path rather, talk on the phone so a woman knows you are coming behind her (there were some comments about making a noise but I am not sure about that as surely it would spook a woman potentially already on edge?), let them know walker / runner / cyclist on your right, don't pass by them too close, offer to walk female friends home / to a taxi rank / bus stop.

Some pretty obvious stuff but worth a read for sure. 

Is there one about what the Queen could do to help young women feel safe?

[Bairnardo]

I know this is a "world we want =/= the world we live in" scenario but even still, I can't be the only one a bit uncomfortable at the thought that the way to improve society is to encourage men to take themselves to the other side of the road from women.

Might be a short term mitigation to an uncomfortable feeling but cant we do better than that?

[RH33]

I think it’s worth pointing out that most woman are attacked by people known to them.

[101]

17 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

I know this is a "world we want =/= the world we live in" scenario but even still, I can't be the only one a bit uncomfortable at the thought that the way to improve society is to encourage men to take themselves to the other side of the road from women.

Might be a short term mitigation to an uncomfortable feeling but cant we do better than that?

Crime rates in Scotland are pretty much at an all time low and I think we have to find a way to make people feel safe sharing the same space as other people.

Changes are being made to improve the journey of complainers especially seeing medical professionals rather than the police after a sexual assault.

I'm not sure how you make the actual experience for walking about at night feel safer, is this a city Vs country debate as well? I had a look and most of the comments on the thread on twitter were from people living in London, understandable in this case, but a fair chunk of Scottish people don't live in Edinburgh or Glasgow and if we are going to address the issue can't just be something that works in Cities that are enormous, other Scottish cities are fairly small in the grand scheme of things

[ICTChris]

What is the average sentence of a first time sexual offender?

32 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

I know this is a "world we want =/= the world we live in" scenario but even still, I can't be the only one a bit uncomfortable at the thought that the way to improve society is to encourage men to take themselves to the other side of the road from women.

Might be a short term mitigation to an uncomfortable feeling but cant we do better than that?

I think in this context they mean if you are walking at night and find yourself behind an unaccompanied woman, crossing the road to pass her might be a good idea to avoid spooking her rather than squeezing past.

[craigkillie]

38 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

I know this is a "world we want =/= the world we live in" scenario but even still, I can't be the only one a bit uncomfortable at the thought that the way to improve society is to encourage men to take themselves to the other side of the road from women.

Might be a short term mitigation to an uncomfortable feeling but cant we do better than that?

This is about what individuals can do. You are, I assume, not a creepy rapist, and nor are you an MP, lawyer, policeman or in any other sort of position of power. Therefore, the only contribution you can really make is to take reasonable to ensure you are at least not frightening women. It's obviously not going to actually reduce crime at all, but it helps women feel a bit safer.

[Priti priti priti Patel]

6 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

What is the average sentence of a first time sexual offender?

I think in this context they mean if you are walking at night and find yourself behind an unaccompanied woman, crossing the road to pass her might be a good idea to avoid spooking her rather than squeezing past.

Not sure about others but this was part of the unwritten rules I picked up as a lad. If you're behind a girl or woman (or even group of them) at night go across to the other side of the street. Likewise if that's not practical and you're getting closer to them have a wee whistle (edit: as in, whistle a tune to yourself) or something to let them know you're there and you're not trying to conceal yourself. Just part of the stuff you learn as a boy growing up. There's lots of this little stuff. Bit like if you're making pleasant conversation at work and it feels right to ask where someone lives, you don't say "where do you live" as you would to a guy, but something like "what direction do you come in from" or "what sort of area do you live in", etc. Not that it counts for much if people are being murdered but, aye...

Edited March 11, 2021 by Margaret Thatcher

[hk blues]

9 minutes ago, Margaret Thatcher said:

Not sure about others but this was part of the unwritten rules I picked up as a lad. If you're behind a girl or woman (or even group of them) at night go across to the other side of the street. Likewise if that's not practical and you're getting closer to them have a wee whistle or something to let them know you're there. Just part of the stuff you learn as a boy growing up. There's lots of this little stuff. Bit like if you're making pleasant conversation at work and it feels right to ask where someone lives, you don't say "where do you live" as you would to a guy, but something like "what direction do you come in from" or "what sort of area do you live in", etc. Not that it counts for much if people are being murdered but, aye...

Yes, pretty much the same here with me.  I don't know about the last bit though,  it sounds almost worst than asking directly - if you're in a work environment then it's surely a safe enough situation where you can ask such an innocuous question.   We don't want to create an environment where actual meaningful discussion is  a no-no.  

[101]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

This is about what individuals can do. You are, I assume, not a creepy rapist, and nor are you an MP, lawyer, policeman or in any other sort of position of power. Therefore, the only contribution you can really make is to take reasonable to ensure you are at least not frightening women. It's obviously not going to actually reduce crime at all, but it helps women feel a bit safer.

And call out unacceptable behaviour...

[coprolite]

2 hours ago, LondonHMFC said:

It happens so openly as well. 

Look at this from Piers Morgan the other day, on a live broadcast to god knows how many million. 

It is fucking rotten. 

 

"of course, they all have lovely bottoms" 

That is genuinely shocking. I wouldn't expect that even from someone as amoral and lowlife as that cretin. 

 

[Nkomo-A-Gogo]

2 hours ago, ICTChris said:

What is the average sentence of a first time sexual offender?

I think in this context they mean if you are walking at night and find yourself behind an unaccompanied woman, crossing the road to pass her might be a good idea to avoid spooking her rather than squeezing past.

this guy was sentenced yesterday in Dublin.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0310/1203109-dublin-court/

compared to what you can imagine he planned to do it feels lenient

[DukDukGoose]

It's not an easy fix, unfortunately.

I watched 'The Ripper' on Netflix recently. Looks at the murders and attacks from a more female angle than anything I'd seen before. Was very interesting and I agreed with most of it but one of the feminists just came across as a total arsehole. It's obviously wrong but the scum in society will refuse to change opinions or actions based on someone on the 'other side' being so extreme.

[coprolite]

2 hours ago, ICTChris said:

What is the average sentence of a first time sexual offender?

I think in this context they mean if you are walking at night and find yourself behind an unaccompanied woman, crossing the road to pass her might be a good idea to avoid spooking her rather than squeezing past.

I don't know about sexual offences, but on a related point, there was a guy near here who strangled his wife recently and only got six years. He pled guilty to manslaughter with diminished responsibility (or whatever the terminology is). 

He'd no diagnosis or anything and the defence was that he hadn't meant to do it but hadn't been sleeping due to money worries and had just snapped. 

Obviously i don't know all the facts, and this has been appealed. 

This sort of thing is far more common than the abduction by a stranger story that makes the six o clock news every couple of years. 

While it might not always be possible to protect women in these situations, we could at least treat them with a bit of gravity. 

[Gordon EF]

5 hours ago, 101 said:

I think a positive step would be normalise consent so films have to have consensual sex in them below age rating 18 as obviously there are reasons you might want a rape in a film. But things like James Bond films that are rated 12 and 15 and probably considered family films has anyone male or female ever consented to sex in those films.

I think the conversation about consent has been a big positive to come out of the MeToo movement. For far too long it was left in a kind of fog because it's a difficult topic and I think a lot of folk that are decent and well intentioned probably learned where some of their actions over the years haven't been.

However, I don't think lessons on consent are going to have much of an impact of people who do stuff like this. There's actions people take not fully realising they're wrong and there's actions people take knowing full well they're wrong but just don't care. If this guy has murdered this woman, he's known full well every step of the way what he was doing was wrong and he just didn't care.

The sad fact is we're never going to completely get rid of that kind of violence. And how we reduce it successfully is probably above P&B's or twitter's pay grade.

[Detournement]

1 hour ago, coprolite said:

"of course, they all have lovely bottoms" 

That is genuinely shocking. I wouldn't expect that even from someone as amoral and lowlife as that cretin. 

 

Do you have to say it on TV to be a lowlife or is it just saying it all?

[Sergeant Wilson]

26 minutes ago, coprolite said:

I don't know about sexual offences, but on a related point, there was a guy near here who strangled his wife recently and only got six years. He pled guilty to manslaughter with diminished responsibility (or whatever the terminology is). 

He'd no diagnosis or anything and the defence was that he hadn't meant to do it but hadn't been sleeping due to money worries and had just snapped. 

Obviously i don't know all the facts, and this has been appealed. 

This sort of thing is far more common than the abduction by a stranger story that makes the six o clock news every couple of years. 

While it might not always be possible to protect women in these situations, we could at least treat them with a bit of gravity. 

There must've been some psychiatric input to rule it in or out as mitigation.

[Detournement]

10 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

 

However, I don't think lessons on consent are going to have much of an impact of people who do stuff like this.

I think that's the understatement of the century. Kidnapping, murdering and disposing of a body (along with f**k knows what else) is not a social faux pas that can be nagged out of someone.

Right wingers are jumping on this for their own agenda as well.

 

[coprolite]

3 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Do you have to say it on TV to be a lowlife or is it just saying it all?

I'd suggest that asking a younger female colleague to stand up so everyone could see her short skirt would be considered out of order anywhere. 

I feel like there's a dig in your question but i don't quite get it. 

[coprolite]

4 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

There must've been some psychiatric input to rule it in or out as mitigation.

You'd have thought so, but expert witnesses aren't perfect. 

[Detournement]

3 minutes ago, coprolite said:

I'd suggest that asking a younger female colleague to stand up so everyone could see her short skirt would be considered out of order anywhere. 

I feel like there's a dig in your question but i don't quite get it. 

He doesn't say "well they all have lovely bottoms" in that clip so I thought you were just against the general sentiment.

The skirt thing looks staged anyway although the female presenter seems uncomfortable.