Hate Crime Bill Passed

[Melanius Mullarkey]

1 hour ago, itzdrk said:

Imagine telling everyone proudly that your Da was a bigot.  

Ally MCoists love child found.

[alta-pete]

My point is that it is clearly a now entirely fatuous piece of legislation. Even Humza was on tv last night saying there is a very high bar for any criminality to be established. I suspect so high in fact that behaving in such a manner that this act was intended to tackle a month or so ago would have most likely landed you with a charge of breach of the peace.

Another piece of 'progressive' legislation from our elected members to make it look like they are doing something while all the more nippy nettles that need attention are failing to be grasped. If they want to be regarded as serious, I'd suggest making a decent fist of tackling some of the serious issues in their domain might be a better place to start.

[throbber]

6 hours ago, Scary Bear said:

Possibly a hate crime? 

Yeah probably - I didn’t find the meme funny just saw on Twitter and thought I’d share 

[Scary Bear]

6 minutes ago, throbber said:

Yeah probably - I didn’t find the meme funny just saw on Twitter and thought I’d share 

Well, it clearly offended someone. That boy up the page - who must have changed his username cause I don’t recall him - wasn’t happy.

[Boo Khaki]

1 hour ago, alta-pete said:

My point is that it is clearly a now entirely fatuous piece of legislation. Even Humza was on tv last night saying there is a very high bar for any criminality to be established. I suspect so high in fact that behaving in such a manner that this act was intended to tackle a month or so ago would have most likely landed you with a charge of breach of the peace.

Another piece of 'progressive' legislation from our elected members to make it look like they are doing something while all the more nippy nettles that need attention are failing to be grasped. If they want to be regarded as serious, I'd suggest making a decent fist of tackling some of the serious issues in their domain might be a better place to start.

Just because some bad actors have decided to be performatively stupid does not make the legislation "fatuous". It's the people making a big song and dance about the legislation being something it is not who are "fatuous".

It's not all that different to pre-existing law elsewhere in the UK, and it hasn't, contrary to what the same fatuous arseholes have been maintaining despite being both told repeatedly, and demonstrably shown, created a whole load of new offences that constitute nothing more than saying a few naughty words about some people. 

Again, the only people who were building this Act up into something it is not, are those who are now claiming that because their predictions of the sky falling in and thousands being marched away by the tartan Stasi on 01/04 for "thought crimes" have not come to pass, this somehow an indication that they were "correct" all along, and the fact that people are not being arrested for not breaking the law is somehow proof the law is flawed or unnecessary. Absolutely deranged behaviour.

 

[throbber]

1 hour ago, Scary Bear said:

Well, it clearly offended someone. That boy up the page - who must have changed his username cause I don’t recall him - wasn’t happy.

Yeah I don’t know why it would be taken seriously, was clearly made by a not very bright unionist.

[GHF-23]

11 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

Just because some bad actors have decided to be performatively stupid does not make the legislation "fatuous". It's the people making a big song and dance about the legislation being something it is not who are "fatuous".

It's not all that different to pre-existing law elsewhere in the UK, and it hasn't, contrary to what the same fatuous arseholes have been maintaining despite being both told repeatedly, and demonstrably shown, created a whole load of new offences that constitute nothing more than saying a few naughty words about some people. 

Again, the only people who were building this Act up into something it is not, are those who are now claiming that because their predictions of the sky falling in and thousands being marched away by the tartan Stasi on 01/04 for "thought crimes" have not come to pass, this somehow an indication that they were "correct" all along, and the fact that people are not being arrested for not breaking the law is somehow proof the law is flawed or unnecessary. Absolutely deranged behaviour.

 

Yes that's what I picked up as well. I'm very rarely on twitter these days and avoid culture war stuff like the plague (I'd recommend this to anyone fortunate enough to be able to!), so I haven't really followed the Rowling stuff. But from what I understand and what you've described above the only way to make the positions she's taken make sense, that I can see, is that she believes her views would constitute hate crimes should they be expressed against a group that counts, but that trans people very much do not count. Is that about the size of it?

[Boo Khaki]

25 minutes ago, GHF-23 said:

Yes that's what I picked up as well. I'm very rarely on twitter these days and avoid culture war stuff like the plague (I'd recommend this to anyone fortunate enough to be able to!), so I haven't really followed the Rowling stuff. But from what I understand and what you've described above the only way to make the positions she's taken make sense, that I can see, is that she believes her views would constitute hate crimes should they be expressed against a group that counts, but that trans people very much do not count. Is that about the size of it?

Gist of this particular aspect of the Bill is that JKR and her cult have been screaming blue murder for yonks that "misgendering" would see people cuffed and prosecuted for Hate Crimes. Palpable nonsense, since this was never an offence to begin with, and the Bill changed nothing about that aspect of our laws. To be completely fair here, so too have a lot of folk on the "other side" of this particular bunfight, such as India Willoughby, who invariably jumps in two-footed with anything she considers a slight against her or any other transperson. IW and her ilk have been chomping at the bit, waiting for 01/04 to grass up the likes of JKR, mistakenly believing that the Act would see JKR and others who are in the habit of deliberately misgendering trans people sent to the slammer.

More rational people have been saying all along that this was complete and utter nonsense, but of course, now that it has been demonstrated to be complete and utter nonsense, IW and Co are seething about JKR not being arrested, and JKR and her cultists are busy having a wee circle-jerk to themselves about what awesome freedom fighters they are because none of them got arrested after they hadn't broken the law. (yip )

Of course, it's not just limited to the "Gender reassignment/Gender Identity" parts of the Bill, there has been a similar amount of ridiculous, performative nonsense spouted about "I should be able to say whatever the f**k I like in my own home/grassed up by the kids/neighbours" aspect and a few others, mainly the fact that "Sex" is protected characteristic which is excluded, but again, it's invariably by bad actors who either haven't bothered to grasp what the Bill actually is and does, or simply have a vested interest in talking down and decrying anything Holyrood does.

There have even been the usual, predictable moans about "wish they took legal advice", "what is the point?" etc, despite the fact Lord Bracadale's Independent Review was exactly that and spelled out precisely why the Bill was necessary. It also recommended excluding "sex" for now because of concerns that would potentially create insurmountable complications in prosecuting otherwise solid cases, to the extent that they were likely to collapse, in favour of a Consultation on a separate "Misogyny" Law which is currently in progress, and, if things go to plan, should result in a law that protects people, especially women and girls, from being victimised because of their sex, exactly what the moaners are demanding. But of course, this is also totally ignored by those who are determined to throw a shitfit about sex being excluded in the first place, even though it is also excluded from the almost identical, pre-existing laws elsewhere in the UK.

Edited April 4 by Boo Khaki

[GHF-23]

10 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

Gist of this particular aspect of the Bill is that JKR and her cult have been screaming blue murder for yonks that "misgendering" would see people cuffed and prosecuted for Hate Crimes. Palpable nonsense, since this was never an offence to begin with, and the Bill changed nothing about that aspect of our laws. To be completely fair here, so too have a lot of folk on the "other side" of this particular bunfight, such as India Willoughby, who invariably jumps in two-footed with anything she considers a slight against her or any other transperson. IW and her ilk have been chomping at the bit, waiting for 01/04 to grass up the likes of JKR, mistakenly believing that the Act would see JKR and others who are in the habit of deliberately misgendering trans people sent to the slammer.

More rational people have been saying all along that this was complete and utter nonsense, but of course, now that it has been demonstrated to be complete and utter nonsense, IW and Co are seething about JKR not being arrested, and JKR and her cultists are busy having a wee circle-jerk to themselves about what awesome freedom fighters they are because none of them got arrested after they hadn't broken the law. (yip )

Of course, it's not just limited to the "Gender reassignment/Gender Identity" parts of the Bill, there has been a similar amount of ridiculous, performative nonsense spouted about "I should be able to say whatever the f**k I like in my own home/grassed up by the kids/neighbours" aspect and a few others, mainly the fact that "Sex" is protected characteristic which is excluded, but again, it's invariably by bad actors who either haven't bothered to grasp what the Bill actually is and does, or simply have a vested interest in talking down and decrying anything Holyrood does.

There have even been the usual, predictable moans about "wish they took legal advice", "what is the point?" etc, despite the fact Lord Bracadale's Independent Review was exactly that and spelled out precisely why the Bill was necessary. It also recommended excluding "sex" for now because of concerns that would potentially create insurmountable complications in prosecuting otherwise solid cases, to the extent that they were likely to collapse, in favour of a Consultation on a separate "Misogyny" Law which is currently in progress, but of course, this is also totally ignored by those who are determined to throw a shitfit about sex being excluded in the first place, even though it is also excluded from the almost identical, pre-existing laws elsewhere in the UK.

That's the sort of detail I was hoping to avoid but I do appreciate the effort and explanation. Thank you!

[strichener]

6 hours ago, J_Stewart said:

The point is that in addition to the elected Ministers involved who you've highlighted, the bill will also have been drafted by legal experts. It will also have been read and re-drafted countless times, both within the Government and their advisors and legal counsel, and with members of affected groups  (religious heads, LGBTQ leaders, racism activists, police scotland, etc, etc) until the point that the legality of the bill and the understanding of its enactment and the subsequent effects were considered, risk assessed, understood and accepted, so yes, I would suggest that there were serious people involved in the drafting and placement of this Bill.

I would also suggest that Rowling and McCoist do not fall in to that category, especially as neither of the fucking idiots actually understands it.

The Scottish Parliament has a history of producing bad and even illegal legislation.

[alta-pete]

I hear Humza on the radio telling everyone to calm TF down. 

They’ve not really thought it through, have they? 

[Frank Quitely]

1 hour ago, strichener said:

The Scottish Parliament has a history of producing bad and even illegal legislation.

A typical Parliament in other words.

[tirso]

a bill that would probably never have come to light or been bothered about if folk spent less time arguing with randoms on twitter, is my take.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

Another victim of Humza's chilling woke Stasi hate crime law.

 

 

[Billy Jean King]

The media spin on this is utterly wild. STV news headline there that Sundays cheek derby will be the acid test of the new "hate law". So here we are in a position where the media who  are normally "outraged" at any arrests at such an event now cheerleading for there to be arrests made using the new laws for it not to be branded a dud. So arrests / no arrests it's got no chance regardless. 

 

ETA they just had some total roaster on who suggested that people watching on TV, in their own fucking home, could be forced to make a complaint if they feel they were placed in a state of fear or alarm by "behaviour" at the game. What planet do these morons live in, get a life ffs, how on earth can pictures and sound from a plastic box in the corner of your own living room make anyone "feart" to such an extent that they feel the need to report said behaviour to the police. 

Edited April 5 by Billy Jean King

[Leith Green]

11 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

The media spin on this is utterly wild. STV news headline there that Sundays cheek derby will be the acid test of the new "hate law". So here we are in a position where the media who  are normally "outraged" at any arrests at such an event now cheerleading for there to be arrests made using the new laws for it not to be branded a dud. So arrests / no arrests it's got no chance regardless. 

 

ETA they just had some total roaster on who suggested that people watching on TV, in their own fucking home, could be forced to make a complaint if they feel they were placed in a state of fear or alarm by "behaviour" at the game. What planet do these morons live in, get a life ffs, how on earth can pictures and sound from a plastic box in the corner of your own living room make anyone "feart" to such an extent that they feel the need to report said behaviour to the police. 

This pish is the equivalent (if your my age) of a Shock ! Horror ! news item in the paper that you see the next day in your chip wrapper.

I mean, I'm out to get wellied with mates tomorrow pre and post match, I dont think I need a flash card or google reminder to tell me not to be a kunt to disabled people...................

[Billy Jean King]

1 minute ago, Leith Green said:

This pish is the equivalent (if your my age) of a Shock ! Horror ! news item in the paper that you see the next day in your chip wrapper.

I mean, I'm out to get wellied with mates tomorrow pre and post match, I dont think I need a flash card or google reminder to tell me not to be a kunt to disabled people...................

All these folk in the media know that too but it's just entrenched nonsense. Murdo Fraser basically spinning it as an avalanche of complaints = fail and no complaints = fail. This legislation will not stand or fall off the back of a pathetic centuries old football rivalry no matter how much they stir this plot up. Only in Scotland could legislation designed to offer legal protection to the most vulnerable in society be reduced to the lowest common denominator of football bigotry. Says it all about us unfortunately. 

[Leith Green]

Just now, Billy Jean King said:

Says it all about us them unfortunately

ftfy

[Billy Jean King]

1 minute ago, Leith Green said:

ftfy

Suppose so but outside of our Scottish bubble we probably all get tarred with the same brush. There's a massive self loathing element in this country highlighted perfectly by kuntz like Murdo Fraser. Winds aye in their faces stuff.

[HTG]

J K is having a rare old swing at this stuff - what an absolute fucking moron. 

https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1776000537076375909