bravehearts dad Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 16 hours ago, craigiemack said: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/rangers-celtic-b-lowland-league-26475183 Edufrance planning to vote yes again. What a shock ! Exactly What a shock . Another soulless club without fans . The Glasgow Record again talking to clubs within their catchment area, and proper waste of time experiment. McGillvery’s expense account not take him past the Glasgow border to gauge opinions. Maybe Edufrance should rebrand themselves as OF Colts Braves C’mon The Rose 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 13 minutes ago, bravehearts dad said: Exactly What a shock . Another soulless club without fans . The Glasgow Record again talking to clubs within their catchment area, and proper waste of time experiment. McGillvery’s expense account not take him past the Glasgow border to gauge opinions. Maybe Edufrance should rebrand themselves as OF Colts Braves C’mon The Rose 1. Andy McGilvray works for Lanarkshire Live Sport, part of the Daily Record's wider range of local online newspapers, so he has geographical boundaries that he reports in. 2. Caledonian Braves don't play in Glasgow. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyramid Watcher Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 21 minutes ago, glensmad said: 1. Andy McGilvray works for Lanarkshire Live Sport, part of the Daily Record's wider range of local online newspapers, so he has geographical boundaries that he reports in. 2. Caledonian Braves don't play in Glasgow. Facts don’t really matter to him, he just likes using a superiority complex over clubs, without realising that a lot of work goes on to keep these clubs going. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Quote And the former Rangers youth coach says as long as they don't get in the way of Braves' eventual title tilt, he doesn't see a problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 15 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: He's got a couple of blue pounds to rub together, apparently that's enough to build a team for a title challenge 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazil85 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 On 02/03/2022 at 12:17, Burnieman said: Actually not as far as clubs are concerned. If a club meets the requirements of the league and enter at the same level as all new applicants, there is no real basis for rejecting their applications. As I pointed out, SPFL clubs have ran Reserve/B sides off and on in the EoS for the last 50 or more years. The problem is, the absurd parachuting of the OF B teams into the LL has cast a shadow over everyone. There absolutely and categorically is. A club having a second team within the professional pyramid has a sporting advantage far more so than the arrangements at amateur and junior levels which we have only seen until now. If they follow the same path as other clubs, what happens when they get drawn in league or Scottish cups against their parent clubs? rules would need to be implemented to avoid this and "cap" how far up the pyramid they can get like other nations colts. Also to allow for movement between colt clubs and senior clubs for players with professional contracts. All of which, again, represents a sporting advantage over clubs that do not have colts. Long and short, given Celtic and Rangers advantages, special treatment and different conditions of professional club entry to the SPFL over other clubs does give a very real basis for rejection. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 53 minutes ago, Bazil85 said: There absolutely and categorically is. A club having a second team within the professional pyramid has a sporting advantage far more so than the arrangements at amateur and junior levels which we have only seen until now. If they follow the same path as other clubs, what happens when they get drawn in league or Scottish cups against their parent clubs? rules would need to be implemented to avoid this and "cap" how far up the pyramid they can get like other nations colts. Also to allow for movement between colt clubs and senior clubs for players with professional contracts. All of which, again, represents a sporting advantage over clubs that do not have colts. Long and short, given Celtic and Rangers advantages, special treatment and different conditions of professional club entry to the SPFL over other clubs does give a very real basis for rejection. How do they deal with these situations in other countries e.g. Spain ? It doesn't seem to cause any issues there - unless anyone knows different. I do not care if the OF B teams are in the pyramid or not but why would Stranraer Reserves or East Fife Reserves for example be not allowed into pyramid leagues at the bottom? Where would you draw the line between the likes of these clubs and the the "big" clubs - not just the OF ? -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 14 minutes ago, Dev said: How do they deal with these situations in other countries e.g. Spain ? It doesn't seem to cause any issues there - unless anyone knows different. You can't really say it doesn't cause any issues if you don't know what happens elsewhere. A glimpse into any B team/2nd Xi/Youth teams and even 3rd and 4th teams in different countries pyramids have different rules and regulations. People will argue the pros and cons. Simple fact is there's no uniform way in which it is done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Bazil85 said: There absolutely and categorically is. A club having a second team within the professional pyramid has a sporting advantage far more so than the arrangements at amateur and junior levels which we have only seen until now. If they follow the same path as other clubs, what happens when they get drawn in league or Scottish cups against their parent clubs? rules would need to be implemented to avoid this and "cap" how far up the pyramid they can get like other nations colts. Also to allow for movement between colt clubs and senior clubs for players with professional contracts. All of which, again, represents a sporting advantage over clubs that do not have colts. Long and short, given Celtic and Rangers advantages, special treatment and different conditions of professional club entry to the SPFL over other clubs does give a very real basis for rejection. Just to re-cap, if any team applies to the WoS and EoS and meet the leagues requirements, they'll likely be accepted. That will equally apply to reserve/B teams from any club. There is already a reserve team in the EoS, and they are already subject to certain restrictions. Edited March 24, 2022 by Burnieman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 How do they deal with these situations in other countries e.g. Spain ? It doesn't seem to cause any issues there - unless anyone knows different. I do not care if the OF B teams are in the pyramid or not but why would Stranraer Reserves or East Fife Reserves for example be not allowed into pyramid leagues at the bottom? Where would you draw the line between the likes of these clubs and the the "big" clubs - not just the OF ?Other countries simply don't care about sporting integrity and don't have the fan power that we do in Scotland.Look at Fiorentina's promotion for being a historically big club. Fans in Italy don't care what's happening in Serie C and most of the diddy fans very much have a big club. The Italian FA aren't going to stop Juventus having a B team in the pyramid because of the three Vis Pessaro fans who give a f**k. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 23 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said: Other countries simply don't care about sporting integrity and don't have the fan power that we do in Scotland. Look at Fiorentina's promotion for being a historically big club. Fans in Italy don't care what's happening in Serie C and most of the diddy fans very much have a big club. The Italian FA aren't going to stop Juventus having a B team in the pyramid because of the three Vis Pessaro fans who give a f**k. Spain is always a slightly weird example used in the case for B teams. They were for the most part actual clubs that. Then through informal means like player loans, donations and sharing a support became tied together. That's why there are historical quirks like Malaga. Who are the rebranded reserve team of the original Malaga that went bust. Instead of going bust as well, the reserve team were able to successfully argue they were an autonomous club. There's even the first Barcelona reserve team that won promotion to LaLiga by shedding their affiliation to the parent club. I'm sure it has become more formal over the years, but who knows what goes on further down the Spanish pyramid where the clubs aren't big enough to rate a mention on English language sites. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 By the way @Martencould you try and explain the goings on in the Netherlands around B team participation? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021–22_Eerste_Divisie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021–22_Tweede_Divisie Going by wiki and the translated referenced articles there's now a set number of B teams allowed in the 2nd and 3rd Tiers. With a newish u21 league where one B team can be promoted/relegated into the 3rd Tier by playoff. An u23 league also being created. Seems so messy with little joined up thinking that it could only be the work of the SFA's PWG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said: By the way @Martencould you try and explain the goings on in the Netherlands around B team participation? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021–22_Eerste_Divisie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021–22_Tweede_Divisie Going by wiki and the translated referenced articles there's now a set number of B teams allowed in the 2nd and 3rd Tiers. With a newish u21 league where one B team can be promoted/relegated into the 3rd Tier by playoff. An u23 league also being created. Yes, it's quite messy really but there are now 4 B-teams out of 20 in the 2nd tier and 2 out of 18 in the 3rd tier and these numbers are fixed. Then there is a separate 4th tier B-team division from which teams can get promoted to the 3rd tier. Promotion/relegation is complicated but it works like this between the 2nd and 3rd tier: If the lowest B-team finishes in the top 10 in tier 2 and/or the highest tier 3 B-team doesn't finish in the top 2, there is no promotion/relegation If the lowest B-team finishes 11-18 in tier 2 and the tier 3 champion is a B-team, both teams will play a play-off for a tier 2 spot If the lowest B-team finishes 11-18 in tier 2 and the tier 3 runner-up is a B-team, there is no play-off If the lowest B-team finishes 19th or 20th in tier 2 and a B-team finishes 1st or 2nd in tier 3, they will swap places Promotion/relegation between the 3rd tier and the B-team 4th tier is as follows: If the lowest B-team finishes in the top 9 in tier 3, there is no promotion/relegation If the lowest B-team finishes 10-16 and the B-team 4th tier champion is eligible*, there is a play-off between both sides for a tier 3 spot, if the 4th tier champion isn't eligible, there is no play-off If the lowest B-team finishes 17-18, they will get relegated and be replaced by the tier 4 champion if they are eligible, if they aren't, then the runners-up will get promoted, if they are also ineligible, there is no promotion/relegation *to be eligible to get promoted to the 3rd tier, a team needs to apply for a license at the start of the season. There are various demands like coaching structure and a suitable ground for the B-team to meet before getting a license. Also, the vast majority of pro-clubs don't even want a B-team in the regular pyramid so most will simply not bother applying. A B-team can't be at the same level as their 1st team, so if a B-team would normally get promoted to the division their 1st team is in, there is no promotion/relegation. If a 1st team gets relegated to the division their B-team is in, the B-team automatically gets relegated. This season, Sparta B still have a chance to reach the top 2 of tier 3 which could see them promoted if FC Utrecht B finish in the bottom 2 (where they currently are). But Sparta's first team currently occupy a relegation spot in the top flight so if they get relegated, Sparta B won't get promoted and FC Utrecht B will get a reprieve. 2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said: Seems so messy with little joined up thinking that it could only be the work of the SFA's PWG Compared to the mess in The Netherlands (not just around B-teams, but the pyramid in general), the pyramid in Scotland & route to get where it is now has been rather straightforward and logical... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) 17 hours ago, Marten said: Yes, it's quite messy really but there are now 4 B-teams out of 20 in the 2nd tier and 2 out of 18 in the 3rd tier and these numbers are fixed. Then there is a separate 4th tier B-team division from which teams can get promoted to the 3rd tier. Promotion/relegation is complicated but it works like this between the 2nd and 3rd tier: If the lowest B-team finishes in the top 10 in tier 2 and/or the highest tier 3 B-team doesn't finish in the top 2, there is no promotion/relegation If the lowest B-team finishes 11-18 in tier 2 and the tier 3 champion is a B-team, both teams will play a play-off for a tier 2 spot If the lowest B-team finishes 11-18 in tier 2 and the tier 3 runner-up is a B-team, there is no play-off If the lowest B-team finishes 19th or 20th in tier 2 and a B-team finishes 1st or 2nd in tier 3, they will swap places Promotion/relegation between the 3rd tier and the B-team 4th tier is as follows: If the lowest B-team finishes in the top 9 in tier 3, there is no promotion/relegation If the lowest B-team finishes 10-16 and the B-team 4th tier champion is eligible*, there is a play-off between both sides for a tier 3 spot, if the 4th tier champion isn't eligible, there is no play-off If the lowest B-team finishes 17-18, they will get relegated and be replaced by the tier 4 champion if they are eligible, if they aren't, then the runners-up will get promoted, if they are also ineligible, there is no promotion/relegation *to be eligible to get promoted to the 3rd tier, a team needs to apply for a license at the start of the season. There are various demands like coaching structure and a suitable ground for the B-team to meet before getting a license. Also, the vast majority of pro-clubs don't even want a B-team in the regular pyramid so most will simply not bother applying. A B-team can't be at the same level as their 1st team, so if a B-team would normally get promoted to the division their 1st team is in, there is no promotion/relegation. If a 1st team gets relegated to the division their B-team is in, the B-team automatically gets relegated. This season, Sparta B still have a chance to reach the top 2 of tier 3 which could see them promoted if FC Utrecht B finish in the bottom 2 (where they currently are). But Sparta's first team currently occupy a relegation spot in the top flight so if they get relegated, Sparta B won't get promoted and FC Utrecht B will get a reprieve. Compared to the mess in The Netherlands (not just around B-teams, but the pyramid in general), the pyramid in Scotland & route to get where it is now has been rather straightforward and logical... We would need an extra P&B, not just extra threads, if that happened in Scottish football. ..... but could something like that really work in Scottish football, even if the rules for operating it were totally clear? Edited March 25, 2022 by Dev . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Cabbage Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 1 year on I have finally found a positive of the colts being in the Lowland League. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 20 hours ago, DiegoDiego said: Other countries simply don't care about sporting integrity and don't have the fan power that we do in Scotland. Look at Fiorentina's promotion for being a historically big club. Fans in Italy don't care what's happening in Serie C and most of the diddy fans very much have a big club. The Italian FA aren't going to stop Juventus having a B team in the pyramid because of the three Vis Pessaro fans who give a f**k. I just think that fans are too hung up over the OF. You would think that there were no passionate supporters of lower levels of football in any other country (OK, an exaggeration). -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 We would need an extra P&B, not just extra threads, if that happened in Scottish football. ..... but could something like that really work in Scottish football, even if the rules for operating it were totally clear? Save to say that there are some pretty lengthy threads on this and the pyramid in general on the Dutch version of P&B where I post as well. [emoji23] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) On the NLM site there is a suggestion that the LL will consider taking in two extra clubs i.e. up to 18 if the OF B teams aren't in the LL next season/in future. Anyone any idea about what the LL vote was on going up to 18 clubs? It was listed on the agenda for the General meeting. Edited March 25, 2022 by Dev . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 30 minutes ago, Les Cabbage said: 1 year on I have finally found a positive of the colts being in the Lowland League. Has he really even played for the B team this season? Either way i'm sure it's another example that the Official Catch Up podcast can claim as a benefit to the Colts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 48 minutes ago, Dev said: I just think that fans are too hung up over the OF. You would think that there were no passionate supporters of lower levels of football in any other country (OK, an exaggeration). The OF are the only ones constantly pushing for this. If you think anyone against colts would soften their views if it was Hibs, Hearts, and Aberdeen instead, you're deluded. It's not that there aren't any. There's just far fewer of them. Football outside the top league tends to be far better supported and far stronger in Scotland (and England) than most other countries. Pollock Juniors would be something ridiculous like the 11th best supported team in Croatia, for example. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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