European Super League.

[Michael W]

2 minutes ago, GordonS said:

My guess is they would do two things that US sport has done. 15 clubs isn't enough, they'll look to grow it to about 32 by adding a couple of franchises a year. And they'll reduce competition between the clubs by capping overall wage bills and pushing out transfer fees, so that the bottom clubs aren't there year after year and will be more competitive. The lesson from the US is that when they operate as a cartel and have a bit less internal competition, all the owners make more money.

Yeah, there's no doubt they'll do that. It's a work in progress but despite protestations on remaining in the domestic leagues, the plan is to eventually get out entirely. 15 teams and they'll be playing 28 games on top of their 38, plus of course the cups. They can probably just about do this with numerous complaints and their fringe players getting more game time. 

This is only the start for them. If they can successfully screw the likes of Bayern, PSG, Roma or even an Everton by depleting domestic broadcast revenue, they'll have teams desperate to join them and can essentially self-select who joins. 

 

[djchapsticks]

3 minutes ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

We are already witnessing the dire consequences of The Super League.

 

Genuinely terrifying that there are many, many folk out there who think this mind-cripple is entertaining.

Same c***s who laugh at Mrs. Brown's boys.

[G51]

There's no way in hell that the ESL just stops at replacing the Champions League.

If it works, the clubs are going to want to play more of the games that make them £300m per year, and none of the games that only make them £100m a year.

There's not a chance these clubs remain in the domestic leagues long-term if this works.

[coprolite]

8 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

The plan is to remain in the English leagues, though.

To me it seems like they want to kill the Champions League. So even if the 6 English clubs have a poor season like Liverpool/Arsenal, then they're still guaranteed say £300m from the "ESL", while someone like West Ham/Leicester will only get the prize money from their league position, and a reduced CL fee.

 

4 minutes ago, Gaz said:

Isn't the whole point of this to replace the CL? So (in theory) they'd still be in the PL competing against utter haddies. Unless I've missed the point completely, in which case, as you were.

I hadn't realised they were staying in the EPL la liga and serie A. 

Is it certain that can happen without a full on boxing/ darts style schism?

Presumably Uefa can just close the door to those leagues for its competitions? 

[Jacksgranda]

8 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

 

 

Anybody mentioned Carragher and the Sky hypocrisy?

 

3 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

I think we managed to post simultaneously. Great minds an all that  

Edited April 20, 2021 by Jacksgranda

[Jambomo]

1 minute ago, coprolite said:

 

I hadn't realised they were staying in the EPL la liga and serie A. 

Is it certain that can happen without a full on boxing/ darts style schism?

Presumably Uefa can just close the door to those leagues for its competitions? 

They want to but I am not sure that UEFA/FIFA can't stop them (as they seem to think) since most of the clubs seem to sign up to rules every year that stop them from participating in other competitions without permission. I don't why legally the couldn't stop them by just refusing them entry to the competition- especially since they can point to the damage that the presence of these clubs would do to existing leagues by staying there (having so much money as to make it utterly non-competitive and damaging to the other participants).

 

[RandomGuy.]

4 minutes ago, G51 said:

There's no way in hell that the ESL just stops at replacing the Champions League.

If it works, the clubs are going to want to play more of the games that make them £300m per year, and none of the games that only make them £100m a year.

There's not a chance these clubs remain in the domestic leagues long-term if this works.

These clubs still want to win the league every season.

To me it seems like they want to kill any chance of a new club appearing and sustaining any form of challenge. Leicester winning the league and building from that, arguably surpassing Arsenal, plus the threat of a billionaire buying Newcastle etc., will have spooked them.

If they can have their foot on everyone's throat, and make sure they're the only ones who can reach the money tree, they'll be happy.

4 minutes ago, coprolite said:

 

I hadn't realised they were staying in the EPL la liga and serie A. 

Is it certain that can happen without a full on boxing/ darts style schism?

Presumably Uefa can just close the door to those leagues for its competitions? 

UEFA will fall in line once they get their share.

[Wee-Bey]

Where was this Helen Lovejoy mewling about 'level playing fields' and 'closed shops' from Sky, the EPL and the English media when the 3rd and 4th placed English sides were parachuted straight into the group stages while the champions of 30 odd countries were forced to jump through hoops just to get a sniff of the cash ? Or when the 3rd place teams in the group stage were allowed to jump down into the Europa League after being eliminated ?

[Dynamo Needarest]

24 minutes ago, Gaz said:

I get that FIFA are rotten to the core, but aren't they (nominally at least) vehemently opposed to any kind of political involvement in sport?

If WM are really planning on using legislation to stop this from happening, what's to stop FIFA withdrawing England's membership altogether?

Money. Fifa are vehemently opposed to any political interference that risks them losing even a sliver of their wedge. 

If said interference can help Fifa keep hold of their lovely cash they'll undoubtedly, wholeheartedly, support it. 

[G51]

8 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

These clubs still want to win the league every season.

To me it seems like they want to kill any chance of a new club appearing and sustaining any form of challenge. Leicester winning the league and building from that, arguably surpassing Arsenal, plus the threat of a billionaire buying Newcastle etc., will have spooked them.

If they can have their foot on everyone's throat, and make sure they're the only ones who can reach the money tree, they'll be happy.

UEFA will fall in line once they get their share.

Winning the league may be a motivation for the managers, the staff and the players, but it's not a motivation for the owners. They simply do not care about domestic league titles. And it's the owners that make the decisions.

The owners are only interested in money, and making as much of it as possible. Sticking your own personal fortune into a club to get it to compete is no good - you don't get rich by doing that. The clubs have to drive profit.

If they make more money by playing 40 - 50 games a season in the ESL, trying to win the Diego Maradona Cup or whatever they end up calling the trophy, than they do playing in the Premier League, then they'll do that.

The added revenue will buy them the best players, which will buy them prestige. That's how it works, and how it has always worked since professional sports became a thing.

Edited April 20, 2021 by G51

[wastecoatwilly]

The globalization of the game is a natural evolution for these clubs they don't need governing bodies or fans it's a rich mans playground.  

[latapythelegend]

1 hour ago, Gaz said:

Man Utd especially could jettison every single one of their existing ST holders and still sell out Old Trafford many times over every week. I'd imagine the same could be said for most of the big clubs.

I don't think they could if they aren't constantly winning. 

I went to quite a few Liverpool games 5-10 years ago. A few dead rubber games we're no where near a sell out. I think in the ESL - prices will be higher, local fans will more than likely not attend in protest. You'll get tourists buying tickets but certainly not selling out on a Tuesday night in January when the novelty of playing every 6 months Inter has worn off.

[craigkillie]

30 minutes ago, Gaz said:

I get that FIFA are rotten to the core, but aren't they (nominally at least) vehemently opposed to any kind of political involvement in sport?

If WM are really planning on using legislation to stop this from happening, what's to stop FIFA withdrawing England's membership altogether?

They're not opposed to political involvement in sport, only to political interference in the running of national FAs. If the UK government decided to remove the chief-executive of the FA to replace them with their own man, FIFA would act against that. They're not bothered by legislation that indirectly affects football - such legislation exists in every country around the world. There are loads of UK (and Scottish) laws which affect football both directly and indirectly, and this would just be another one of those.

[ahemps]

15 hours ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

From 1990 to 2005 and Liverpool's fluke CL win only Man Utd would have been considered a giant of the game with Arsenal a distant second.

Man Utd's win in 1999 was England's only European cup win a in 30 year span. Germany, Italy, Spain and Netherlands had 2 teams win the trophy in that spell.

Even with mega money from the EPL they are still lagging behind Spain and Germany in terms of European success.

 

Liverpool won 4, Forest won 2 and Villa won 1 European cup from 1969-1999.

Germany had 3 clubs, Munich (3), Hamburg(1), and Dortmund (1)

Netherlands had 3, Feyenoord (1), Ajax (4) and PSV (1)

England are a more successful nation in UEFA competitions than Italy and Germany, only Spain better them.

[BigDoddyKane]

8 hours ago, Antony said:

I think most Celtic fans would want a more competitive Scottish football. Of course we kind of contradict ourselves when we celebrate 9 in a row or a quadruple treble but football and emotions aren't always logical. I don't know anyone who wouldn't want to see Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs close the gap and challenge for honours every year. Obviously how we go about closing that gap is where opinions would differ. 

Everyone looks back on the early 80s as a great time in Scottish football because of how exciting it was and who didn't enjoy seeing St Johnstone, Inverness, Ross County win their first major honours recently? 

I agree, I want a more competitive domestic league in Scotland and same in Europe, I want the money shared out as equally and as fairly as possible. It should be european wide. Aligned rules for sharing the cash in Domestic and Europe. Even gate money should find a balance and be shared more equally and be done european wide. 

That would create more of a level playing field and would help close the gap thats appeared since money started pouring into the game. It would also spread good players throughout leagues and clubs again instead of the few rich clubs having massive squads of players who rarely play.

Im not saying those ideas are the best other people might have good points to raise against those ideas and have better ones.

 

One things for sure, for Football in europe. We have a once in a lifetime chance to change its path. Whatever comes out of this will decide it for long time.

The champions league is already far to slated towards the rich clubs and a complete imbalance in money paid out has created 1or2 horse races  across europe.

Stopping the superleague isnt enough its got to be full scale change or its going to go the other wrong way even if super league doesnt happen this year

 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by BigDoddyKane

[the philosopher]

On 18/04/2021 at 17:15, doulikefish said:

Can't believe the 2 biggest clubs in the world haven't been invited 

Boca Juniors and Santos ?

[Dons_1988]

Just now, BigDoddyKane said:

One things for sure, for Football in europe. We have a once in a lifetime chance to change its path. Whatever comes out of this will decide it for long time.

The champions league is already far to slated towards the rich clubs and a complete imbalance in money paid out has created 1or2 horse races  across europe.

 

 

If you think there's going to be some fundamental change to the direction of travel in football I think you'll be disappointed.

The ESL in its current guise may never happen, but the likely alternative is the CL new format, plus some extra negotiated tweaks to appease the ESL clubs.

UEFA and FIFA have no issue with the money in the game and disparity of resources. They are just upset this is happening outside their pyramid.

[BigDoddyKane]

Just now, Dons_1988 said:

If you think there's going to be some fundamental change to the direction of travel in football I think you'll be disappointed.

The ESL in its current guise may never happen, but the likely alternative is the CL new format, plus some extra negotiated tweaks to appease the ESL clubs.

UEFA and FIFA have no issue with the money in the game and disparity of resources. They are just upset this is happening outside their pyramid.

Im not saying full scale change will happen, Im just saying this is the last chance we as fans will ever get to do anything, as theres a momentum that if some leadership happens it could occur.

 

Most likely your right it wont though but nows the time if it ever will happen

[Jacksgranda]

9 hours ago, Antony said:

For the EFL/EPL to keep the numbers the same you either bring in Celtic (60k), Rangers (50k), Hearts (20k), Hibs (20k) and Aberdeen (15k) or promote Hartlepool, Sutton, Torquay, Stockport, Wrexham and Halifax who all get crowds of around 2,000 except Wrexham who get maybe 4-5k. Also those attendances for Scottish clubs could increase you would imagine. 

The Premier League is about to lose its 6 biggest clubs which are the main draw for sponsors and TV channels. The money will drop quickly and so will the quality of player on show as a result. With the lower quality of football and the absence of the big 6, I'd imagine the biggest average attendance would be maybe 50,000 for West Ham or Newcastle. Aside from Aston Villa or Everton I'd be surprised if there is any other club that brings in over 30k on a week to week basis. Aside from the 4 English clubs I mentioned the next best attendance is Leicester with 32k. And again you would imagine this could go down. 

Whilst I don't think it will happen bringing in 5 Premier League or Championship sized clubs to the set up is surely not a crazy suggestion. These English clubs left behind are in danger and would surely be considering all options at the moment. 

There's half a dozen teams in the Championship with bigger average attendances than Aberdeen, Hearts & Hibs.

[Dons_1988]

9 minutes ago, BigDoddyKane said:

Im not saying full scale change will happen, Im just saying this is the last chance we as fans will ever get to do anything, as theres a momentum that if some leadership happens it could occur.

 

Most likely your right it wont though but nows the time if it ever will happen

There is no chance the professional game will make the fundamental structural changes required to distribute resources more evenly across clubs. That ship has absolutely sailed.