The 2021/2022 Championship

[vikingTON]

Or we could stop pretending that a bunch of glorified Herbalife salesmen who can't regularly string three passes together or trap a ball are the best that can possibly be expected at this level of the game. There is a yawning middle ground between this 'wha's like us' parochial nonsense and signing up for a European Super League. 

Competent players and teams are not too much to ask for in professional football and there have been far too few instances of that in the season just completed. If clubs don't want the burden of that expectation then they can lower their gate prices to reflect the decline in quality - that'll never happen though. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by vikingTON

[TxRover]

4 hours ago, renton said:

Albeit, from the 14 who played that night: Dingwall, Bowie, Baird and McLean left at the end of that season. K. McDonald has already left this season and we expect Hendry and Davidson to leave, and of the remaining 7: Robbie Thomson and Dave McKay won't be regular starters. Of the remaining 5, we still don't know if Armstrong or Spencer will stay. So actually, of the team that night we can only guarantee that three of them would be starters: Benedictus, Matthews and Tait.

Wondering how you determined McKay won’t be a regular starter? As has been suggested, three CB is a very real possibility next year, Dave was re-signed, suggesting JMcG likes what he sees, Lang hasn’t played for us yet, Frankie is unsigned, Berra is aging and Bene is probably at his ceiling.

[1320Lichtie]

1 hour ago, Cardle is Magic said:

Most games I watched over the season were absolutely dire, whether it be Pars matches or a few on BBC.

If other folk really enjoy the standard, then that’s great.

Bottom half of Prem is pretty shite too though I think. But as a whole I think Scottish football is a much higher standard than it was 10-20 year ago, mainly due to how fit players are now. I don’t think it’s bad but what are we comparing it against, see shite games and quality everywhere. English and Scottish. Never watch anything other than that to be fair. 

[renton]

4 minutes ago, TxRover said:

Wondering how you determined McKay won’t be a regular starter? As has been suggested, three CB is a very real possibility next year, Dave was re-signed, suggesting JMcG likes what he sees, Lang hasn’t played for us yet, Frankie is unsigned, Berra is aging and Bene is probably at his ceiling.

...and I don't see why people are so determined we'd play 3 at the back. We had opportunities to do so this season and very rarely did, and not to great effect when we tried.

If Musonda signs up we have 5 guys who could play CB, but my guess is that Musonda, Benedictus and Berra would have first call on those places. My guess is your more likely to see McKay playing at right back when Tumilty isn't available than at CB - and to be clear, I rate McKay highly.

[Cardle is Magic]

15 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Bottom half of Prem is pretty shite too though I think. But as a whole I think Scottish football is a much higher standard than it was 10-20 year ago, mainly due to how fit players are now. I don’t think it’s bad but what are we comparing it against, see shite games and quality everywhere. English and Scottish. Never watch anything other than that to be fair. 

I barely watched a minute of Scottish Premiership this season tbh, although if Killie’s performance against Dundee is any indication then it must be fairly shambolic.

Possibly it’s just wide-eyed nostalgia and previous massive overspending but I feel there’s been a big dip in quality and entertainment. If it wasn’t for supporting the Pars then I’d probably not watch much Scottish football, if any.

[Raith Against The Machine]

16 minutes ago, renton said:

...and I don't see why people are so determined we'd play 3 at the back. We had opportunities to do so this season and very rarely did, and not to great effect when we tried.

If Musonda signs up we have 5 guys who could play CB, but my guess is that Musonda, Benedictus and Berra would have first call on those places. My guess is your more likely to see McKay playing at right back when Tumilty isn't available than at CB - and to be clear, I rate McKay highly.

renton pls

[Alert Mongoose]

What’s the record attendance at QoS?

[Michael W]

27 minutes ago, renton said:

...and I don't see why people are so determined we'd play 3 at the back. We had opportunities to do so this season and very rarely did, and not to great effect when we tried.

If Musonda signs up we have 5 guys who could play CB, but my guess is that Musonda, Benedictus and Berra would have first call on those places. My guess is your more likely to see McKay playing at right back when Tumilty isn't available than at CB - and to be clear, I rate McKay highly.

Think a large part as to whether it's viable depends on us signing an attacking LB to compliment Tumilty on the other side. A key area of weakness (other than our striker issues) was that when our wingers were off the boil, we were goosed. McGlynn tried changing that in the latter stages with Gullan and Vaughan but we were very predictable.

The other barrier (from my perspective) is that we also need to get someone in that can take a decent corner or free kick. No point playing a back three if we're not going to threaten at set pieces! 

Of course we don't yet know who is staying/going for sure  so trying to piece together a preferred starting XI at the moment isn't really an option. 

[Dougie Mills]

3 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said:

What’s the record attendance at QoS?

26551 v Hearts in 1952

[vikingTON]

39 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Bottom half of Prem is pretty shite too though I think. But as a whole I think Scottish football is a much higher standard than it was 10-20 year ago, mainly due to how fit players are now. I don’t think it’s bad but what are we comparing it against, see shite games and quality everywhere. English and Scottish. Never watch anything other than that to be fair. 

The seaside leagues are undoubtedly stronger due to improvements in fitness, puffing lardarses like Mark Yardley or Scott McCulloch wouldn't get near the SPFL now. 

The second tier and above already had a high standard of fitness but the technical standard of the players/teams has significantly declined. The Division One that Morton entered in 2007 and survived on the final day the following season is streets ahead of the one that we stayed in this season. Never mind the insanely high quality of the 95/96 season when you had experienced internationals bossing the pitch in every other game. 

[Tattie36]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

Or we could stop pretending that a bunch of glorified Herbalife salesmen who can't regularly string three passes together or trap a ball are the best that can possibly be expected at this level of the game. There is a yawning middle ground between this 'wha's like us' parochial nonsense and signing up for a European Super League. 

Competent players and teams are not too much to ask for in professional football and there have been far too few instances of that in the season just completed. If clubs don't want the burden of that expectation then they can lower their gate prices to reflect the decline in quality - that'll never happen though. 

As such a connoisseur of the beautiful game, I trust you consume your other forms of entertainment in a similar manner? I once listened to a Ramones song and thoroughly enjoyed it, imagine my horror when I discovered that they only used two chords! Couldn’t wait to get back to my Sibelius.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Tattie36

[1320Lichtie]

10 minutes ago, virginton said:

The seaside leagues are undoubtedly stronger due to improvements in fitness, puffing lardarses like Mark Yardley or Scott McCulloch wouldn't get near the SPFL now. 

The second tier and above already had a high standard of fitness but the technical standard of the players/teams has significantly declined. The Division One that Morton entered in 2007 and survived on the final day the following season is streets ahead of the one that we stayed in this season. Never mind the insanely high quality of the 95/96 season when you had experienced internationals bossing the pitch in every other game. 

Definitely right on L1 and L2. And maybe but it kind of feels like that’s been said every year for as long as I can remember, feel like 10 years from now it’ll be the same. Everyone seems to look back fondly on the past, not sure why it would be any worse now than say 2007 for example? 
 

ETA - even at the top level in the English Prem etc I think it’s improved due to fitness and speed etc. Not just in Scotland 

Edited May 27, 2021 by 1320Lichtie

[vikingTON]

5 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

As such a connoisseur of the beautiful game, I trust you consume you’re other forms of entertainment in a similar manner? I once listened to a Ramones song and thoroughly enjoyed it, imagine my horror when I discovered that they only used two chords! Couldn’t wait to get back to my Sibelius.

Scottish Championship football is not a different genre but rather an inferior version of the same genre. And there are far worse versions beneath it. If you think that 'entertainment' is the only benchmark needed then there are stacks of non-league games that charge a fiver a head and practically guarantee goals or a rammy every Saturday.

To rework your metaphor, the Scottish Championship is like a band that gets paid to perform at a music festival (early doors) and can't actually play their instruments or sing properly. You might still enjoy the festival but it has got next to nothing to do with the performers.

[Tattie36]

31 minutes ago, virginton said:

Scottish Championship football is not a different genre but rather an inferior version of the same genre. And there are far worse versions beneath it. If you think that 'entertainment' is the only benchmark needed then there are stacks of non-league games that charge a fiver a head and practically guarantee goals or a rammy every Saturday.

To rework your metaphor, the Scottish Championship is like a band that gets paid to perform at a music festival (early doors) and can't actually play their instruments or sing properly. You might still enjoy the festival but it has got next to nothing to do with the performers.

What a ludicrous exaggeration. Scottish championship players are the equivalent of someone in a band who can’t play an instrument?

Personally I think a decent professional/semi-professional footballer in Scotland, is closer in footballing ability to Lionel Messi than you or I am to them.

To continue the musical theme: perhaps the Scottish championship is like punk - pretty basic, at times awful but full of energy and mostly great fun. But still a valid form of music.

In the grand scheme of things I do think that entertainment trumps all. We have to accept the limitations of our game, and that we can be happy with it and enjoy it without obsessing over wether Big Davie at centre half is as technically proficient as some boy who plays for Barcefuckinglona.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Tattie36

[Rudolph Hucker]

3 hours ago, Tattie36 said:

Fair enough. Personally, I don’t think games/leagues need much quality to be very entertaining. Football is entertainment after all. Some of the most awful spectacles I’ve ever watched have been EPL, La Liga, Serie A games. Granted, they are full of this magical “quality” but full of awful entertainment - watching, low risk, formulaic fitba played by robotic multi-millionaires passing the ball sideways for 90 minutes can be grim viewing. I watched the FA cup final the other week, followed by the Dundee v Raith playoff. There was more entertainment and excitement in the first 5 minutes of the playoff than in the entire 90 of the FA cup. Perhaps we should all give up and start watching the EPL like arseholes all over the world.

I totally get that. I don’t watch much of the prima donna  stuff these days, especially given the amount of simulation and all the VAR nonsense, but Scottish Championship fitba on telly without fans there to provide an atmosphere ain’t much of an attraction for me. The same game, when you’re there watching it, is a completely different bucket of fish. Or it can be, at least.

[Tattie36]

14 minutes ago, Rudolph Hucker said:

I totally get that. I don’t watch much of the prima donna  stuff these days, especially given the amount of simulation and all the VAR nonsense, but Scottish Championship fitba on telly without fans there to provide an atmosphere ain’t much of an attraction for me. The same game, when you’re there watching it, is a completely different bucket of fish. Or it can be, at least.

Agree 100%. I think football at all levels, not just our championship, needs fans. It’s a sport that relies as much on the off-field dynamics as what happens on the park to provide atmosphere, passion, tribalism etc.

As they say - Football without fans is nothing.

[vikingTON]

2 hours ago, Tattie36 said:

 

In the grand scheme of things I do think that entertainment trumps all. We have to accept the limitations of our game, and that we can be happy with it and enjoy it without obsessing over wether Big Davie at centre half is as technically proficient as some boy who plays for Barcefuckinglona.

Why do we have to accept that these are 'limitations' when there is direct, lived experience of a time when teams were not so utterly horseshit that Sean McGinty could fraudulently make a career for himself in the second tier?

If the standard was better during previous periods (it was) then there is no reason why it cannot be better now. 

1 hour ago, Tattie36 said:

Agree 100%. I think football at all levels, not just our championship, needs fans. It’s a sport that relies as much on the off-field dynamics as what happens on the park to provide atmosphere, passion, tribalism etc.

As they say - Football without fans is nothing.

The fact that football has been played without fans for 12 months confirms this as  birthday caird pish.

Edited May 27, 2021 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

3 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Definitely right on L1 and L2. And maybe but it kind of feels like that’s been said every year for as long as I can remember, feel like 10 years from now it’ll be the same. Everyone seems to look back fondly on the past, not sure why it would be any worse now than say 2007 for example?

I don't think there's a structural explanation for the decline in standard, but it is clear enough. The Morton team that won promotion to this level in 2006-07 and scraped survival the following season on goals scored (Jim McAlister, Chris Millar, Paul McGowan from Celtic replaced by Allan Jenkins and other Gretna refugees) would stomp all over the rabble that went into a play-off on goal difference this season and it wouldn't even close. I have absolutely zero nostalgia for a side assembled by that odious serial loser and bottle merchant Jim McInally but that is the reality of the situation. 

Some clubs have better squads now than then but the overall standard of division was much, much tougher. And yet there's still a gap to the level below given the outcome of the play-offs. The pyramid is becoming a more broadly based exercise in mediocrity. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by vikingTON

[The Ghost of B A R P]

3 hours ago, Tattie36 said:

What a ludicrous exaggeration. Scottish championship players are the equivalent of someone in a band who can’t play an instrument?

Personally I think a decent professional/semi-professional footballer in Scotland, is closer in footballing ability to Lionel Messi than you or I am to them.

To continue the musical theme: perhaps the Scottish championship is like punk - pretty basic, at times awful but full of energy and mostly great fun. But still a valid form of music.

In the grand scheme of things I do think that entertainment trumps all. We have to accept the limitations of our game, and that we can be happy with it and enjoy it without obsessing over wether Big Davie at centre half is as technically proficient as some boy who plays for Barcefuckinglona.

Nobody's saying we shouldn't accept the limitations of our game... but why pretend they don't exist? The quality of football in the Championship has been poor for the last few seasons.

The Ramones are every bit as 'good' as Sibelius; but they do two completely different things, so it's a matter of taste.

Lionel Messi and big Davie nominally play exactly the same sport... but, believe me, the gap in ability gets wider as you go up.

I agree about the entertainment bit: there are all sorts of things Scottish football could do to make it more entertaining to watch, without relying on some sudden improvement in the quality of players (which is more or less down to money differentials).

[TONTROOPER]

16 hours ago, Cardle is Magic said:

 

Pars won 1 away game and still finished in a play-off place, which sums up the quality on show.

So where's the big surprise?.......win your home games and pick up the odd win or draw away from home and you are always going to end up mid table (or slightly better in Pars case).Thats why you won a play-off place (not that you did much with it right enough).