VAR in Scottish Football

[LIVIFOREVER]

1 hour ago, Jamie_B said:

We scored a 95th minute equaliser against Dundee a few weeks back, having come from two down in a game where we’d been playing absolutely shit and the hubris level from the visiting fans was off the chart when they went 2-0 up.

In that situation you’d normally expect to end up three or four rows away from your seat climbing on a random and giving wild GIRUYs to the opposition fans.

In this instance though I thought the scorer looked potentially offside, so while I was out of my seat I was absolutely certain it was getting disallowed. Turned out he was level, but the moment was gone.

That fiasco in Spain on Wednesday highlighted the big issue with the implementation - the people in the stadium were given the wrong info and were basically completely in the dark and even those watching on tv needed clarification long after the goal was ruled out. The whole thing is a mess, and has just moved the controversy further down the line.

You’re not always getting better decisions - see for example the Saints v Livi game in which there were two huge game changing decisions - a VAR influenced red card that the ref didn’t give in real time, awarded after watching a slow motion replay and which was then rescinded on appeal, and an incredibly soft penalty that the ref was not invited to review, presumably because it was a subjective decision that wasn’t a clear and obvious error. Even though you could certainly say the same about the red card.

It is a mess of a system that ruins football matches.

[velo army]

On 13/10/2023 at 09:51, craigkillie said:

This is spot on. It has undoubtedly improved the number of correct decisions made, but it hasn't increased it to 100%, and it has demonstrably made the supporter experience far, far worse, whilst simultaneously not actually removing much controversy.

I think we're also realising that we don't need decisions to be "correct" as much as we need to trust that what we're seeing is final and unchanging, no matter how correct. The narrative was allowed to build around accuracy and inaccuracy of calls but without a contrary narrative due to the full horror of the consequences (VAR) being unknown at the time.

I'd sooner have the post match seethe or "in game" indignation at a decision wrongly going against us. It's part of the pantomime. 

I disagree that the ship has sailed. History is full of examples that show us how small groups of people can change things. The debate needs to be taken into the mainstream.

The Terrace lads post on here do they not? 

[willywastecoat]

2 hours ago, velo army said:

I think we're also realising that we don't need decisions to be "correct" as much as we need to trust that what we're seeing is final and unchanging, no matter how correct. The narrative was allowed to build around accuracy and inaccuracy of calls but without a contrary narrative due to the full horror of the consequences (VAR) being unknown at the time.

I'd sooner have the post match seethe or "in game" indignation at a decision wrongly going against us. It's part of the pantomime. 

I disagree that the ship has sailed. History is full of examples that show us how small groups of people can change things. The debate needs to be taken into the mainstream.

The Terrace lads post on here do they not? 

I've stood and waited for Var to make a decision before celebrating because your instinct tells you to wait so the anticipation is greater, Celebrating a goal before the Var decision will become less normal.

Edited October 14, 2023 by willywastecoat

[ropy]

I’ve stood waiting for a review of a penalty decision only to see a throw in.

[Scary Bear]

On 01/10/2021 at 22:59, Pull My Strings said:

f**k VAR. An expensive inept implementation of a bad idea by soulless bureaucrats for pedantic children. The enjoyment and worth of football lies in the spectacle of sporting intent and artistic endeavour. For those not into that there's always Excel. I can handle wrong decisions but don't kill and bisect the artists whilst I'm trying to enjoy their performance.

 

 

 

I agree.

[craigkillie]

On 14/10/2023 at 14:56, velo army said:

I think we're also realising that we don't need decisions to be "correct" as much as we need to trust that what we're seeing is final and unchanging, no matter how correct. The narrative was allowed to build around accuracy and inaccuracy of calls but without a contrary narrative due to the full horror of the consequences (VAR) being unknown at the time.

I'd sooner have the post match seethe or "in game" indignation at a decision wrongly going against us. It's part of the pantomime. 

I disagree that the ship has sailed. History is full of examples that show us how small groups of people can change things. The debate needs to be taken into the mainstream.

The Terrace lads post on here do they not? 

 

Lots of us already realised that, but sadly the cry-babies won over in terms of the public narrative.

Some of the Terrace members post on here, and the podcast has been vehemently anti-VAR, but as influential as we are in certain things (especially the TV boys), I don't think the SFA are going to sit up and listen.

[Ginaro]

On 14/10/2023 at 18:42, ropy said:

I’ve stood waiting for a review of a penalty decision only to see a throw in.

Well it seems VAR has been efficient in that case and cleared the referee's decision as not being a clear and obvious error.

[Handsome John]

Sky doing a show on Sunday that reviews the first year of VAR in Scotland. Will include behind the scenes footage from recent St Mirren - Rangers game, as well as Crawford Allan discussing decisions made both last and this season. 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Handsome John

[AJF]

VAR has ultimately replaced the feeling of outpouring ecstasy in celebrating a goal for a feeling of apprehensiveness and wary, tempered celebration, followed by relief if the goal stands.

It’s shite 

Edited October 19, 2023 by AJF

[Dons_1988]

22 minutes ago, AJF said:

VAR has ultimately replaced the feeling of outpouring ecstasy in celebrating a goal for a feeling of apprehensiveness and wary, tempered celebration, followed by relief if the goal stands.

It’s shite 

It’s interesting to read back to the early pages of this thread. A few people dismissing the idea that celebrating a goal is important. 

[AJF]

5 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

It’s interesting to read back to the early pages of this thread. A few people dismissing the idea that celebrating a goal is important. 

Aye, it’s a viewpoint I just can’t comprehend.

Outwith major life events such as marriage, child births etc. I can’t imagine any other occasions that elicit as much joy as scoring a goal. Even then it’s probably a close run thing

Those that value 100% accuracy (no laughing, please) over that feeling are odd to me.

[Dons_1988]

14 minutes ago, AJF said:

Aye, it’s a viewpoint I just can’t comprehend.

Outwith major life events such as marriage, child births etc. I can’t imagine any other occasions that elicit as much joy as scoring a goal. Even then it’s probably a close run thing

Those that value 100% accuracy (no laughing, please) over that feeling are odd to me.

If there was 100% accuracy then it would form a basis for discussion as to it being worth it. It makes our argument more difficult but not completely mental. 

As we are (and always will be), it’s not even close. Nowhere near it, we speak about referees and VAR more than ever. It’s incredibly dull and genuinely it’s put more pressure on referees than before which was one of the main original reasons for introducing it (stated reasons, the real reasons are different). 

[Zapp Brannigan]

8 hours ago, Handsome John said:

Sky doing a show on Sunday that reviews the first year of VAR in Scotland. Will include behind the scenes footage from recent St Mirren - Rangers game, as well as Crawford Allan discussing decisions made broth last and this season. 

Sounds souper!

[Ginaro]

On 19/10/2023 at 00:41, Handsome John said:

Sky doing a show on Sunday that reviews the first year of VAR in Scotland. Will include behind the scenes footage from recent St Mirren - Rangers game, as well as Crawford Allan discussing decisions made both last and this season. 

VAR Clips have been posted on Twitter.

 

[craigkillie]

I watched this and generally thought there was some interesting insight into the discussions, but it would have been more enlightening if they had shown at least one mistake and then explained why it went wrong.

[Ginaro]

4 hours ago, craigkillie said:

I watched this and generally thought there was some interesting insight into the discussions, but it would have been more enlightening if they had shown at least one mistake and then explained why it went wrong.

Were any other clips shown as I don't have access to the full programme? 

Good that it confirmed the refs are talking to the VAR and telling them what they've seen. Funniest bit was Crawford Allan basically calling out Andrew Dallas and his "gonna recommend you have a wee look at it mate" to Clancy as not very professional!

I think that's the big difference for football VAR compared to other sports which have had reviews for many years, they may be fine as referees and reviewing footage but when it comes to communication and process they've got a bit to work on to improve things, especially now as they should expect the public to hear what they are saying at some point.

[craigkillie]

No, those were the only three clips where audio was shown. The rest of the show was essentially a look at how all the equipment worked plus interviews with some of the officials and Crawford Allan.

[Les Cabbage]

Not that I’m petty as I truly feel sorry for Aberdeen supporters tonight because they’ve been totally fucked over

But from a look at the people who supported VAR according to this poll with affiliation to AFC.

@Thenorthernlight @gudge1903

Hope you’re glad of the decision to ruin the old game of fitba.

Watched the game tonight with an Aberdeen fan and I think it’s the most annoyed I’ve been at another team being fucked over that I’ve ever been to be honest, remember people earlier in this thread said it would help level the playing field against the bigger clubs .

[Thenorthernlight]

7 hours ago, Les Cabbage said:

Not that I’m petty as I truly feel sorry for Aberdeen supporters tonight because they’ve been totally fucked over

But from a look at the people who supported VAR according to this poll with affiliation to AFC.

@Thenorthernlight @gudge1903

Hope you’re glad of the decision to ruin the old game of fitba.

Watched the game tonight with an Aberdeen fan and I think it’s the most annoyed I’ve been at another team being fucked over that I’ve ever been to be honest, remember people earlier in this thread said it would help level the playing field against the bigger clubs .

And I’ll repeat.

It’s NOT VAR.

It’s the p***ks who are using it. 

VAR picked up on PAOK’s penalty. 
Correctly.  
That’s what it’s for. So that on field decisions that are missed get picked up.

The VAR man is instructed to check all things that happen in the penalty box. 
Everything.

They didn’t check.  
Why?

Aberdeen deserve an explanation as to why not.  
 

[ropy]

The clip that is doing the rounds on social media certainly looks like a clear penalty, are there any other angles that cast doubt on it?