Public Services or Going Private

[coprolite]

If you can go private, should you? 

Had an interesting discussion / argument about private education at work last week. A woman whose kids are privately schooled pointed out that parents paying fees saves the state having to pay for them. Fair point, but not the whole argument imo. 

Heard similar from people paying to queue jump for elective surgery. Less fair point imo. 

The one that's causing me a moral dilemma is way more trivial. The library book i have at the moment has a waiting list so is obviously in demand but my return date keeps extending due to covid provisions. So i'm stopping someone reading a public book i could afford to buy. Makes me wonder if i should even use the library - i've always thought it's use it or lose it.

Who would or does go private or stay council, and what's your thought process? 

[Soapy FFC]

13 minutes ago, coprolite said:

Had an interesting discussion / argument about private education at work last week. A woman whose kids are privately schooled pointed out that parents paying fees saves the state having to pay for them. Fair point, but not the whole argument imo.

Are private schools not charities? As a charity they get tax relief etc, so we, the public, do subsidise them in the form of tax rebates.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Soapy FFC

[Meldrew]

my fear, right or wrongly, is if i went with private healthcare, and other who could afford it did the same, we'd end up with a two tier system like the United States., and the less we're like them, the better.

[Suspect Device]

Although I'm against private education in principle, I'm also a fucking hypocrite because when the bairn was born we moved to an area with a better school because we could afford it. So I'm paying for better education, just not directly.

[BigDoddyKane]

Im not against private education or Healthcare as long as education and healthcare for everyone is at a good level, im just against inequality. If someone has the money though and wants to spend it on either for themselves or their family on an individual level its up to them. The problem is as mentioned by Meldrew it can create a 2 tier system if left unchecked.

There seems to be more people who pay for extra tutoring for their kids at times nowadays and I guess thats a form of private education too

Edited November 3, 2021 by BigDoddyKane

[welshbairn]

41 minutes ago, coprolite said:

Heard similar from people paying to queue jump for elective surgery. Less fair point imo. 

Certainly wouldn't defend it on those grounds, as you're paying a consultant to do the work whilst 9/10 he/she's moonlighting from a full time NHS job, and using NHS facilities. But if it's a member of your family who's suffering and you can afford for them to jump the queue, it's hard not to on moral or ideological grounds. Elective surgery is a bit of a misnomer, it's not just breast enhancements and the like.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Let's get one thing clear here, people who enrol their children in private schooling are investing in privilege masquerading as parental diligence.  A civilised society should have the provision of education, healthcare and affordable housing in its DNA; unfortunately in this regard the UK is a far from civilised society.  As for the ridiculous argument that a privately-educated child is relieving the burden on the State, that's like saying a passenger being helicoptered off a sinking ship is freeing up a lifebelt.

[BigDoddyKane]

53 minutes ago, coprolite said:

If you can go private, should you? 

Had an interesting discussion / argument about private education at work last week. A woman whose kids are privately schooled pointed out that parents paying fees saves the state having to pay for them. Fair point, but not the whole argument imo. 

Heard similar from people paying to queue jump for elective surgery. Less fair point imo. 

The one that's causing me a moral dilemma is way more trivial. The library book i have at the moment has a waiting list so is obviously in demand but my return date keeps extending due to covid provisions. So i'm stopping someone reading a public book i could afford to buy. Makes me wonder if i should even use the library - i've always thought it's use it or lose it.

Who would or does go private or stay council, and what's your thought process? 

The Library book I think is fine, by using the Library service you are helping to keep it open, if everyone stopped using libraries who could afford more might close. 

I really like Libraries I think they add value to any community, I hate hearing about any closing

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Just look at the c***s that are currently running the country.

Count how many of them were privately educated and that tells you all you need to know.

 

[Soapy FFC]

As @welshbairn said, we have a limited number of healthcare professionals and they do work in both the private and NHS sectors. If more people go private there is not a bigger pool of private consultants that will do that work and thereby freeing up consultants in the NHS, they will just spend more time doing private and less doing NHS work.

[Dawson Park Boy]

1 hour ago, Soapy FFC said:

Are private schools not charities? As a charity they get tax relief etc, so we, the public, do subsidise them in the form of tax rebates.

The SG stripped private schools in Scotland of charitable status thus meaning that they would have to pay business rates.

However, Covid came along and business rates were stopped as part of the mitigation measures on a temporary basis.

 

[NotThePars]

I've grown dislike the framing of this as an individual consumptive choice. It should've been taken out the hands of people decades ago by the state but we've completely fucked it from the top down so we might as well just batter everyone who sends their kids to private school and has a BUPA subscription as a compromise.

Just want to let everyone know though that I had the opportunity to get private health insurance with a non-profit and despite some good arguments in favour I said no because while some of you posture I'm practicing 

[sparky88]

The state school places would need to be increased by 30% in Edinburgh before the SG could even consider banning private schools. 

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, NotThePars said:

Just want to let everyone know though that I had the opportunity to get private health insurance with a non-profit and despite some good arguments in favour I said no because while some of you posture I'm practicing 

Would you hold to your values if a close relative or friend was suffering and you had the money to sort it out quickly though? 

Edited November 3, 2021 by welshbairn

[NotThePars]

7 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Would you hold to your values if a close relative or friend was suffering and you had the money to sort it out quickly though? 

I'm mainly using my values as a cudgel to lord it over other people 

[RH33]

My cousin went to private school, while he probably achieved better grades as they are coached so heavily, he didn't cope in university setting where there is more of a need to fend for yourself. 

The psychological input for my mental health is from private sector as I need intermittent care. When I do need it it's usually urgently. Therefore picking up with someone whom I don't need go through a 20yr history with is worth it.....and I think current wait time on NHS for psychology is over a year.

I wouldn't send my three to private school even if I could afford it. I did however move so that they could get a better primary education. The secondary here is fairly standard mix of kids which I think is healthy for kids. I deliberately didn't move to where is seen as the best high school in county as it may get good results but I've heard nothing but bad things about it.

We can all have ideological beliefs about private/public but when it comes to it, we have to make choices to gain the best outcome for ourselves/family.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

All of it. Starting with Greggs.

[lichtgilphead]

1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

The SG stripped private schools in Scotland of charitable status thus meaning that they would have to pay business rates.

However, Covid came along and business rates were stopped as part of the mitigation measures on a temporary basis.

 

I don't believe that DPB is telling us the full story though.

He claims to be an accountant (I'm not)

A quick glace online suggests that if a charity receives income and uses it for defined 'charitable purposes', they don't pay tax:

- on donations
- on profits from trading
- on rental or investment income, for example bank interest
- on profits when they sell or ‘dispose of’ an asset, like property or shares
- when they buy property

They might even get money back from the government through gift aid!

As far as I can see, public schools having to pay business rates at some unspecified future date is just a small part of their tax relief perks.

DPB - happy to be corrected if I've got hold of the wrong end of the stick, but IMO, public schools should be cosidered to be businesses and taxed in exactly the same way as other businesses

Edited November 3, 2021 by lichtgilphead

[strichener]

2 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

I don't believe that DPB is telling us the full story though.

He claims to be an accountant (I'm not)

A quick glace online suggests that if a charity receives income and uses it for defined 'charitable purposes', they don't pay tax:

- on donations
- on profits from trading
- on rental or investment income, for example bank interest
- on profits when they sell or ‘dispose of’ an asset, like property or shares
- when they buy property

They might even get money back from the government through gift aid!

As far as I can see, public schools having to pay business rates at some unspecified future date is just a small part of their tax relief perks.

DPB - happy to be corrected if I've got hold of the wrong end of the stick, but IMO, public schools should be cosidered to be businesses and taxed in exactly the same way as other businesses

I agree and this should be extended to "charity" shops on high streets.

[Dawson Park Boy]

20 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

I don't believe that DPB is telling us the full story though.

He claims to be an accountant (I'm not)

A quick glace online suggests that if a charity receives income and uses it for defined 'charitable purposes', they don't pay tax:

- on donations
- on profits from trading
- on rental or investment income, for example bank interest
- on profits when they sell or ‘dispose of’ an asset, like property or shares
- when they buy property

They might even get money back from the government through gift aid!

As far as I can see, public schools having to pay business rates at some unspecified future date is just a small part of their tax relief perks.

DPB - happy to be corrected if I've got hold of the wrong end of the stick, but IMO, public schools should be cosidered to be businesses and taxed in exactly the same way as other businesses

It’s been a long time since I’ve practiced as a tax accountant, so I’m no expert.

I do agree that there are lots of organisations which have ‘charitable status’ which is wrong.

My bridge club has it and claims back gift aid. Crazy, but there you are!

Most of the members are well heeled and certainly don’t deserve to be subsidised by the state.