Scotland v Ukraine

[Todd_is_God]

16 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Since when is a quadruple header normal from a scheduling point of view, since when is a quadruple header classified as a 2x double headers? Even UEFA call it a quadruple header.

The qualifiers are being played during the part of the calendar where you would normally find a tournament, so in that sense nothing is normal from a scheduling point of view.

You would never have two weeks of international fixtures back to back normally, but calling it a "quadruple header" in this way to compare it to the triple headers used to catch the international calendar back up is being deliberately obtuse.

It is (or was) two back to back double headers of Sat / Tues and Sat / Tues

The real triple headers took place over 7 days, sandwiched between domestic fixtures the weekend before and after.

You are coming from the angle that the fixture dates were only decided when the NL draw was made, but UEFA will have had these dates in their calendar since before March 2020 (before triple headers were even considered) they didn't make a decision not to continue them - they've just gone back to normal with 2 games over a week.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Todd_is_God

[nessies long lost ghost]

I can't see the game being played. Scotland will probs get a bye. It's unfortunate for Ukraine but it is the way it is

[craigkillie]

It has plenty to do with it, they will do whatever they can to make this seem normal by throwing together whatever they can at the very last second rather than admitting one of their mates are responsible for the issue. They would not have done a single thing until Poland forced the issue and shamed them into making the correct decision, they would have been quite happy to allow The Russia (I am obviously paraphrasing) to compete in the playoffs, and probably beyond, otherwise.

This is word salad I'm afraid. They have dealt with Russia in the strongest manner possible, and the proposal being discussed is about as far from "normal" as possible.

[2426255]

6 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

The qualifiers are being played during the part of the calendar where you would normally find a tournament, so in that sense nothing is normal from a scheduling point of view.

You would never have two weeks of international fixtures back to back normally, but calling it a "quadruple header" in this way to compare it to the triple headers used to catch the international calendar back up is being deliberately obtuse.

It is (or was) two back to back double headers of Sat / Tues and Sat / Tues

The real triple headers took place over 7 days, sandwiched between domestic fixtures the weekend before and after.

Why were the Nations League games not just a triple header in June and a triple header in September? 

Edited April 10, 2022 by 2426255

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

5 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Why were the Nations League games not just a triple header in June and a triple header in September? 

Much less inconvenience. These 2 x 2, or 1 x 4 games don’t impact the league season.

A triple header in September would. UEFA already need to have all CL group stages done quicker because of the WC start as well.

We should direct all ire at FIFA and their rank corruption. 

UEFA are hardly benevolent, but I’ll continue to support their greater influence on world football over FIFA’s…

[Donathan]

The World Cup itself intrudes on two of the traditional international breaks in the 2022-23 season. The November one directly (because it’s being played then) and the October one indirectly (it’s been cancelled to give domestic and European competitions more time to play their fixtures given the enforced month long break in November/December)

 

These fixtures need to be made up somewhere and given that the traditional World Cup slot in June is vacant, it makes sense for it to go there. 

[Todd_is_God]

51 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Why were the Nations League games not just a triple header in June and a triple header in September? 

Why would they be triple headers?

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Todd_is_God said:

Why would they be triple headers?

Any chance you could just ignore him same as everyone else, it doesn't go anywhere. He's an idiot.

[2426255]

2 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

Why would they be triple headers?

They wouldn't. That's my point and that reason (whatever it is) is why UEFA or FIFA have come up with this solution you'd have to assume.

That reason is what I would like outlined if UEFA/FIFA announce this.

[eez-eh]

[Pie Of The Month]

Record this morning reporting the SFA are against the Ukraine game being both the playoff semi and NL home game and also would prefer the 1st June over 31st May with Robertson potentially in a CL final and some of the Championship players potentially in the playoff final just a few days before. Apparently we should get confirmation of what's happening this week.

 

 

[2426255]

51 minutes ago, Pie Of The Month said:

Record this morning reporting the SFA are against the Ukraine game being both the playoff semi and NL home game and also would prefer the 1st June over 31st May with Robertson potentially in a CL final and some of the Championship players potentially in the playoff final just a few days before. Apparently we should get confirmation of what's happening this week.

 

 

The Daily Record article is based largely from the Daily Mail article linked below. It also states that June 5th will be the planned WC Playoff Final date.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10705911/SFA-chief-executive-Ian-Maxwell-flies-UEFA-HQ-finalise-Scotlands-World-Cup-play-fate.html

[Caledonian1]

2 hours ago, 2426255 said:

The Daily Record article is based largely from the Daily Mail article linked below. It also states that June 5th will be the planned WC Playoff Final date.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10705911/SFA-chief-executive-Ian-Maxwell-flies-UEFA-HQ-finalise-Scotlands-World-Cup-play-fate.html

and yet this is from a BBC article put up an hour ago......

 

Aside from their charity work, the two clubs aim to get Ukrainian internationals ready for their World Cup play-off match against Scotland on 7 June. If they win at Hampden Park, Ukraine will then travel to Wales for a qualification decider due to be played just days later.

Dynamo Kyiv: Ukrainian champions decamp to Bucharest to spread story of grief and hope - BBC Sport

[Donathan]

The compromise will probably be 31st May (meaning potentially no Robertson, McKenna or Christie) in return for UEFA agreeing to move the Nations League game back to September rather than double it up. 
 

The fixtures scheduled for Saturday 4th June (Ireland v Ukraine and Scotland v Armenia) could move back to Wednesday 8th, Wales v Netherlands moves back to September and the final goes to Sunday 5th June. 

[Louis Litt]

What about ticketing if they do merge the two games into one? The same seats will have been bought by different people 

[AMMjag]

[Todd_is_God]

16 minutes ago, Donathan said:

The compromise will probably be 31st May (meaning potentially no Robertson, McKenna or Christie) in return for UEFA agreeing to move the Nations League game back to September rather than double it up.

f**k that, please explain how that is a compromise?

The SFA don't need to conceed anything and shouldn't budge.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Todd_is_God

[Donathan]

29 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

f**k that, please explain how that is a compromise?

The SFA don't need to conceed anything and shouldn't budge.

The issue is that UEFA could just turn around and tell us when the game is, and that it’ll be a double up. 
 

 

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

43 minutes ago, Donathan said:

The issue is that UEFA could just turn around and tell us when the game is, and that it’ll be a double up. 
 

 

I highly doubt that would be possible, unless you can point to the section of either competition's rules that would determine that?

Remember, games played under FIFA or UEFA are organised and dealt with by completely different entities, and different competition rules.  If you want to understand the difficulty, read up on the rules/directives/requirements for an SPFL Premiership match, and then the equivalent guidance for the Scottish Cup.  You cannot square that circle easily.

What about a caution or a suspension gained in that match, could a player then face a ban in both UEFA and FIFA competitions, despite only being sanctioned once?  How about a caution issued during extra time, or worse, a second caution?  How do you account for that in a competition where matches only last 90 minutes?  

What if Scotland/Ukraine score three goals in extra time and win the group over Ireland on goal difference?  What if Scotland/Ukraine are relegated on goal difference due to goals in ET, or where cautions administered in ET are used as a tie-breaker to relegate one of the countries to Group C?

It's not a case of 'like it or lump it' - these have to be fully accounted for and be consistent with the rules of the competition prior to the competition beginning.

And there's me assuming that all the other more standard rules are aligned (VAR, which I believe is; number of names substitutes, which I believe is 12 for both).  However, the playoff will probably allow for an additional substitute in ET (so 6 total can be made, plus any concussion subs if they are allowed), which cannot be used in the UNL match.

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by HuttonDressedAsLahm

[Donathan]

8 minutes ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

I highly doubt that would be possible, unless you can point to the section of either competition's rules that would determine that?

Remember, games played under FIFA or UEFA are organised and dealt with by completely different entities, and different competition rules.  If you want to understand the difficulty, read up on the rules/directives/requirements for an SPFL Premiership match, and then the equivalent guidance for the Scottish Cup.  You cannot square that circle easily.

What about a caution or a suspension gained in that match, could a player then face a ban in both UEFA and FIFA competitions, despite only being sanctioned once?  How about a caution issued during extra time, or worse, a second caution?  How do you account for that in a competition where matches only last 90 minutes?  

What if Scotland/Ukraine score three goals in extra time and win the group over Ireland on goal difference?  What if Scotland/Ukraine are relegated on goal difference due to goals in ET, or where cautions administered in ET are used as a tie-breaker to relegate one of the countries to Group C?

It's not a case of 'like it or lump it' - these have to be fully accounted for and be consistent with the rules of the competition prior to the competition beginning.

And there's me assuming that all the other more standard rules are aligned (VAR, which I believe is; number of names substitutes, which I believe is 12 for both).  However, the playoff will probably allow for an additional substitute in ET (so 6 total can be made, plus any concussion subs if they are allowed), which cannot be used in the UNL match.

 

 

Presumably if the match went to extra time then the score at the end of 90 minutes would be final for nations league purposes, no? 
 

There is not ET and penalties in the UNL group stage, so presumably if for argument’s sake it’s 1-1 after 90 minutes, then they’d have to call it a 1-1 draw and a point each in the nations league, with ET and penalties only being played to determine who wins the playoff match?