The Big Queen's Park FC Thread

[Peil]

1 minute ago, Arachnophile said:

I've said it before & I'll say it again: everyone hates clubs who have someone pumping money into them....

...

 

...

 

....

 

Until it's their club.

Oh totally, Ayr fans loved Barr pumping money in, even when he stepped back it was fair enough.

Then the unpaid bills mounted up and it was panic stations

[Bring Your Own Socks]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye the Gnu said:

If Haughey had approached your lot instead of QP, offered gazillions and promises to make your club better than they are,  can you honestly say you would have turned him down? Oh aye, and to build a stadium you could be proud of…….

I know I’m being facetious, coz the guys a walloper, but his Billy Big Baws attitude and promises would have been tempting. No?

I won’t respond to the other poster as he/she’s a p***k. The club is governed by Articles of Association which are heavily protective of our Committee.

To answer your post though, the vote by members in Oct19 to go professional was on the premise of two key things. Firstly, to position ourselves in League 1 and avoid the trapdoor to the Lowland. Secondly, to put a stop to clubs stealing our young talent for free due to amateur contracts being limited by the SFA to one year. Selling players would be part of our revenue.

At no point was the appointment of a CEO mentioned. At no point was the Championship mentioned - the whispers of the Premiership and Europe only started after a Dempster and Beuker arrived. At no point was a B team mentioned. At no point was a standalone training complex mentioned. At no point was a return to Hampden mentioned. All of this Billy Big Boots stuff came after the committee appointed Dempster and Beuker. Only they, as directors of the company, have the authority to employ staff. 

Haughey’s increasing influence has been by stealth. He’s referred to around the place as the “major sponsor”. He’s used his dosh to bail out our Eejit committee who are now dependant on his help. He happily keeps them in post as they provide cover for his activity. Until it suits him not to have them, that’s how it will stay. 

Some fans have tried on two occasions to challenge things but have been conned into grudging acceptance. Another challenge is being mustered now but it’s up to the committee to agree to an EGM request. 

[Bring Your Own Socks]

33 minutes ago, an86 said:

Nah. Homophobia is quite shit tbh. 

I think williebraveheart was referring to the “fucking useless” part.

[Thumper]

25 minutes ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

I think williebraveheart was referring to the “fucking useless” part.

Much like the curate's egg, you don't get to say that some parts of some vile Brian Clough-esque rant are acceptable.

[williebraveheart]

1 hour ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

I think williebraveheart was referring to the “fucking useless” part.

Indeed I was. I apologise for my unwise comment.

[Jacky1990]

5 hours ago, virginton said:

If you didn't want your club to be pulled in any direction as a mere plaything of your directors, you could:

a) have rejected Haughey and the gang's involvement in the first place, and/or

b) express your disapproval now through meaningful protest

QP fans are not obliged to do either of the above, but the whole 'tbe big bad directors made us do it - we're powerless bystanders' line simply won't cut it on this issue. 

Honestly, my first thought reading this was that getting involved running a football team would make for a good episode of Always Sunny in Philadelphia. But there's no way Danny DeVito et al could make as much of a shambles of it as the current lot.

[foreverarover]

6 hours ago, placidcasual said:

Full time football and a colts team, with a core support about the same size as Albion Rovers

 

 

Don't you dare put Abion Rovers in the same category as Queens Park. They have a staduim and everything

[foreverarover]

5 hours ago, Arachnophile said:

I've said it before & I'll say it again: everyone hates clubs who have someone pumping money into them....

...

 

...

 

....

 

Until it's their club.

I'm sorry but there a few issues I have seen as a non Queens Park fan which has raised suspicion. Why the fcuk has it taken 2 years to still be building a single shitty stand. There is not one bit on revinue stream in the club with exception of season tickets, away fans tickets and shirt sales. It will be interesting to see if the ground us built by the new season. I seen it as being strung on so if they gained promotion they could again try to use elsewhere to get crowds in from old firm. IMO Queens Park should never have been given promotion if they won that playoff and realistically shouldn't have been allowed to complete in playoffs. The real fans of the club I feel sorry for with this debacle. I've had numerous disagreements with folk as they Harp on about how good it is "the fairytail" but when harsh reality hits it's more of a shit show. I hope the club finds it's level in football and does as the original constitution structured it to do so. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by foreverarover

[Arachnophile]

14 minutes ago, foreverarover said:

I'm sorry but there a few issues I have seen as a non Queens Park fan which has raised suspicion. Why the fcuk has it taken 2 years to still be building a single shitty stand.

The single shitty stand has been built.

14 minutes ago, foreverarover said:

There is not one bit on revinue stream in the club with exception of season tickets, away fans tickets and shirt sales.

Sponsorship?

14 minutes ago, foreverarover said:

It will be interesting to see if the ground us built by the new season. I seen it as being strung on so if they gained promotion they could again try to use elsewhere to get crowds in from old firm. IMO Queens Park should never have been given promotion if they won that playoff and realistically shouldn't have been allowed to complete in playoffs.

Appreciate your opinion, but that's not what the rules say.

14 minutes ago, foreverarover said:

The real fans of the club I feel sorry for with this debacle.

Is that the debacle that has us going from division 2 plodders to just missing out on promotion to the premiership?

Some debacle!

14 minutes ago, foreverarover said:

 

I've had numerous disagreements with folk as they Harp on about how good it is "the fairytail" but when harsh reality hits it's more of a shit show.

Who knows how it will end up? None of us do. Anymore than anyone knows how the conservatory revolution at Raith will end up. But I don't see any of your fans wanting to reject the investment.

14 minutes ago, foreverarover said:

 

I hope the club finds it's level in football

What level is that exactly?

14 minutes ago, foreverarover said:

and does as the original constitution structured it to do so. 

No idea what you mean.

[foreverarover]

13 minutes ago, Arachnophile said:

The single shitty stand has been built.

Sponsorship?

Appreciate your opinion, but that's not what the rules say.

Is that the debacle that has us going from division 2 plodders to just missing out on promotion to the premiership?

Some debacle!

Who knows how it will end up? None of us do. Anymore than anyone knows how the conservatory revolution at Raith will end up. But I don't see any of your fans wanting to reject the investment.

What level is that exactly?

No idea what you mean.

Our issue was our chairman had not a clue how to run a football club. Not a clue how to develop the ground to generate income as an absent landlord. He brought in folk who cost fortunes and gave nothing  in return. Our investment hopefully is based on structuring the club properly and having the staff behind the manager to utilise the money in the correct way. Thst is what Queens Park need. It's pointless bringing in your sponsorship money when it gets pissed down the drain paying rent and Friday night football when your third in the pecking order for staduim use. I'd have liked your club to have gotten it's ground set out and built and create a club from the bottom up. I wouldn't trust that ex celtic director as far as I could throw him. The potential for the club was there and I hope for the fans sake they don't over streach the mark financially with folk like Dempsey on board. I haven't set foot into starks Park since january 2022. Until I seen this chairman losing his overall control of the club and the majority of directors removed. Unfortunately we can't get rid of Sim. It'll cost too much even for the conservatory lot to fork out. Sim owns the staduim and us still a major shareholder. You need to have a club nowadays  that can generate money pre match and outwith the match day. That's where smarter directors are looking at to keep clubs afloat. As a Queens fan I'd be disappointed if your club has the opportunity to start afresh in a build and not have this ethos as a major remit to a build. 

 

 So if your stand is built then why haven't you being playing there . 

Edited May 16, 2023 by foreverarover

[Arachnophile]

7 minutes ago, foreverarover said:

Our issue was our chairman had not a clue how to run a football club. Not a clue how to develop the ground to generate income as an absent landlord. He brought in folk who cost fortunes and gave nothing  in return. Our investment hopefully is based on structuring the club properly and having the staff behind the manager to utilise the money in the correct way. Thst is what Queens Park need. It's pointless bringing in your sponsorship money when it gets pissed down the drain paying rent and Friday night football when your third in the pecking order for staduim use. I'd have liked your club to have gotten it's ground set out and built and create a club from the bottom up. I wouldn't trust that ex celtic director as far as I could throw him. The potential for the club was there and I hope for the fans sake they don't over streach the mark financially with folk like Dempsey on board. 

 

 So if your stand is built then why haven't you being playing there . 

So, to summarise,  you are in the same situation we are in, hoping the money being invested in your club leads to a sustainable improvement in your club's fortunes.

 

 

[foreverarover]

3 minutes ago, Arachnophile said:

So, to summarise,  you are in the same situation we are in, hoping the money being invested in your club leads to a sustainable improvement in your club's fortunes.

 

 

Exactly, our old mainstand is getting a refit and a large sports lounge created to generate income. Simple things like that to create money. Having the astro pitch also gives us a revinue off match days. The idea of taking over the old police building and pitches in pollock park to train at us all well and good but that won't create much in the way of income over the next few years unless you have done fantastic youngsters we don't know ready to sell on. When I talk of clubs finding a level, it's a level. Where they are sustainable and living near to it's means. I hope Queens don't squander cash on the ego of one director. 

[Spider1975]

7 hours ago, foreverarover said:

The idea of taking over the old police building and pitches in pollock park to train at us all well and good but that won't create much in the way of income over the next few years unless you have done fantastic youngsters we don't know ready to sell on

That is very much is the plan long-term though and I'm sure before his injury the rumoured sale of Grant Savoury would have been manifestation of that.  It's why they've spent money hiring Martin Beuker from AZ; it's why the academy are now holders of CAS Elite status and it's why there seem to be almost constant adverts for coaching staff at all levels.  There is more to building a club from ground up than just the literal version of that.  Time will tell whether this money spent on the youth and analytics set up have been worth it.

QP fans who aren't concerned/embarrassed/angry about the continued Lesser debacle will number similarly to Hen's teeth, but I'm sure you'll understand that for all the faults regarding its construction a 'stadium' is not just 'a stand'.  

Edited May 16, 2023 by Spider1975

[an86]

For all the off-field strategy has been rightly criticised, we’re equally as chaotic at first team level. We’re heading for our fifth permanent manager since turning professional. 
 

Roberts- Nice guy, but nowhere near the levels required for a full-time gig. Understandably moved on.

McKinnon- Came in and did the job he was expected to do after winning the league. Emptied by Dempster after a disagreement over the way forward. 
 

Ellis- Flailed around looking for a manager and ended up with McKinnon’s assistant. A promising start faded into some of the most horrifically dull football imaginable with an underperforming squad, going through the motions. It wasn’t working, so off he went.

Announced Peter Grant and Gardner Speirs as caretakers. Neither ever took a single game. Marijn Beuker, now unable to do his actual job, despite just arriving in the country, takes charge of the team without announcement. Unsurprisingly, we continue to huff and puff, before hilariously bringing John Potter in as caretaker as some sort of bait for Jack Ross to join the club. He does not join the club and we are still pish, seemingly drawing every single game 1-1.

Owen Coyle comes in, seemingly really with an eye on next season in League One, but manages to get a tune out of the players who finished miles back and navigating playoffs against Dunfermline and Airdrie to get us up. Starts the next season playing some outstanding football, scoring goals, the lot. We end up in an unlikely title challenge, lose it on the last day and lose the playoffs. A blow, but everyone appreciating the progress. He walks. Why?

Two successful managers have now either been asked to leave or walked. Why? What is our strategy? Panicked awful loan signings in the past two January windows and, of course, the cherry on the cake, selling our best striker whilst in a strong position to go up. We’ve got here in spite of ourselves and mostly driven by Coyle’s man management. 

[craigkillie]

This Beuker has fraud written all over him, wouldn't be surprised if he's meddling too much.

[Zanetti]

21 minutes ago, an86 said:

Two successful managers have now either been asked to leave or walked. Why? What is our strategy? Panicked awful loan signings in the past two January windows and, of course, the cherry on the cake, selling our best striker whilst in a strong position to go up. We’ve got here in spite of ourselves and mostly driven by Coyle’s man management. 

It's obviously just speculation, but my theory on McKinnon and now Coyle is that they were unable to agree with the club on transfer policy and how to rebuild the squad following each of their first full successful seasons.

When we won the League Two title it was pretty clear that the squad was made up of mostly past their best, circling the drain of full time football players. They were generally his pals who he'd worked with before but I think Ray knew they'd struggle at a slightly higher level.

Last year, the heads and legs clearly went, and we were dreadful from March onwards. I've no doubt Coyle did his best to get the most of of them but eventually that's got to become frustrating for the manager too (granted, I don't think his tactics of just changing whoever was playing out left every week and hoping for the best helped much either).

Both of them likely had names they wanted to bring in, and presumably expected the club to spend a bit of money so that they could do that. The club clearly has different plans for the development of the first team, and to be frank I'm not sure I'd want either of these guys to be given free rein over who we sign given their track records in that area.

I feel like Dempster's comments in the statement yesterday where she mentioned they're now tasked with "finding a new head coach to help us in our aims of being the best club to develop talented young players" sort of back this up, but I could be totally wrong!

[Zanetti]

10 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

This Beuker has fraud written all over him, wouldn't be surprised if he's meddling too much.

I obviously don't speak for everyone, but Beuker is probably the only person at the club right now I can say I have 100% faith in.

[Ben Reilly]

It's hard to see how there wouldn't be a difference in approach between Beuker and any Head Coach.

Beuker's job is to develop the long term strategy of the youth development. Frankly he shouldn't be all that interested in the first team results or league placings at this point.

The Head Coach, whether that's McKinnon, Coyle or whoever, is the one who is concerned with the first team, and understadably they want to have the best chance to put a winning team on the pitch as its their professionall pride, reputation etc that's at stake.

Obviously there needs to be some synergie between the two (and to be fair Coyle seemed to buy into to that based on what he's said repeatedly), and moving up the leagues should create more income to fund the accademy, but we're at a stage in the process where the long term plan and the shorter term goals don't quite tie up.

In some ways it would be easy for the club to say that first team success is not the current priority and that all focus is on the longer term plan, but that's not an easy sell to fans, coaches, players or even some sponsors who want understandably want the club to be competing as high as possible.

I do believe that if we'd finished 3rd this year, and exited the playoffs at the same stage, having never been serious challengers for the title, then almost all of us would be delighted and say that it's been a fantastic season. But given the way things played out its difficult not to see it as a glorious failure. The same probably goes for coyle and the players.

[Bring Your Own Socks]

51 minutes ago, Zanetti said:

It's obviously just speculation, but my theory on McKinnon and now Coyle is that they were unable to agree with the club on transfer policy and how to rebuild the squad following each of their first full successful seasons.

When we won the League Two title it was pretty clear that the squad was made up of mostly past their best, circling the drain of full time football players. They were generally his pals who he'd worked with before but I think Ray knew they'd struggle at a slightly higher level.

Last year, the heads and legs clearly went, and we were dreadful from March onwards. I've no doubt Coyle did his best to get the most of of them but eventually that's got to become frustrating for the manager too (granted, I don't think his tactics of just changing whoever was playing out left every week and hoping for the best helped much either).

Both of them likely had names they wanted to bring in, and presumably expected the club to spend a bit of money so that they could do that. The club clearly has different plans for the development of the first team, and to be frank I'm not sure I'd want either of these guys to be given free rein over who we sign given their track records in that area.

I feel like Dempster's comments in the statement yesterday where she mentioned they're now tasked with "finding a new head coach to help us in our aims of being the best club to develop talented young players" sort of back this up, but I could be totally wrong!

The McKinnon departures was more than just a theory, Dempster came out after he left, to the press of course, and basically said Ray wanted to buy a winning team and she wanted someone to work with the new model. Hence the appointment of the less experienced and more malleable Ellis. 

If she has any talent it’s being careful with her words so that subtlety you spotted in this week’s announcement is a signal. Dare I say it but Owen has cooked his own goose by getting us up the leagues so quickly. He was clearly the key to Murray’s return to form and the selling of him seems now to be borderline sabotage, although if the club had turned down the offer it would have gone against the original business plan. But from day one and his introduction to fans at Number 10 Owen bought into the development model and I’m sure he meant it. As I said recently, promotion to the SPL would have made that unworkable, certainly in terms of first team introductions.

I said a long time ago we really need two parallel lines here. Someone to get the first team well established and playing to win and someone to run what is now QP Young Team. Two different characters and psychological profiles. And Beuker to keep the two in step with the big picture. More money of course, but that’s what it needs. Assuming Junior leaves the camp also, Neil MacFarlane would be ideal for the development role. 

[Ben Reilly]

54 minutes ago, Zanetti said:

I obviously don't speak for everyone, but Beuker is probably the only person at the club right now I can say I have 100% faith in.

I'd tend to agree with you, bar one major issue, and that's that I would imagine he's all for us having a B Team in the pyramid. I hope I'm wrong, but it would seem to be right up his street.

To be fair to him, I can fully understand why he would want it. As stated in my previous post, his job is to develop the strategy for young players coming through to the first team and being sold for profit. B teams playing competitive matches against the highest possible opposition is obviously a big help with this.

He also comes from a country where b teams are in their 2nd tier, so he probably doesn't see it as anything out of the ordinary.

I fear he may be one of those at the club pushing for us joining the conference league.