The Queen of the South thread

[Otis Blue]

8 minutes ago, Nithsdale Wanderer said:

A little bit unfair on the Club there , I think.

Can you imagine the reaction if there had been no interview ?

Yes, I thought about that (reaction if there had been no interview) - but sometimes in life you end up in situations where you're damned if you do and damned if you don't and at such times a decision needs to be made, even if you catch criticism from certain quarters.  On balance, if I was the board I wouldn't have held/published that interview or at the very least I'd have had it heavily edited.

Edit - I actually said earlier (before the interview was published) that I felt there shouldn't be an interview at all.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Otis Blue

[Nithsdale Wanderer]

26 minutes ago, Otis Blue said:

Re Marvin's interview - I think you can be quite media savvy/experienced as he obviously is, but the few minutes immediately after a bad loss is usually a very emotional moment for any manager at any level and at such times common sense can easily go out the window.  This was poor judgement from Marvin for participating in it, but probably more so very poor judgement by the club in the way it was handled and in even publishing it (was it even vetted/edited by the club's top level management prior to publishing?).

I thought a very telling point was where Marvin (almost accepting and acknowledging the inevitable) said that he doubted that an incoming manager could get much more out of those players.  I think he actually hit the nail on the proverbial head there - it's hardly going to be an attractive prospect for any new manager that he'll have to work with such a poor squad with only minor adjustments possible in January.

These are truly dire times at Palmy.

The converse of that is that a new Manager with different approach and methods may get the best out of the players available.

I think MB was being 'savvy' in giving his side of things , passing the blame to players and not himself. At the same time sowing a seed with some supporters that some players are letting the Club down hence leaving a negative vibe even after he is gone.

We need the positivity of Jim McIntyre to motivate and breed confidence. That's how you get players onside, so to speak, not by berating them.  Management in any industry is multi faceted and  not one size fits all which I suspect is Marvin's way.

[Nithsdale Wanderer]

22 minutes ago, parsboi said:

No way can he survive with any credibility after that interview.  It’s clear where the problem is at your club - him.  
 

He’s been there nearly a full year, and had two transfer windows.  So be has to take responsibility for the players that are there, they’re his choices.

His public condemnation of half his team there in this rant says to me he can’t manage his emotions.  He’s chosen to go into slate the player mode at a time when he needs them the most.  Whether it’s true or not about the examples of lack of professionalism, it’s up to him as manager to work out how to deal with the faults.   If they aren’t listening to his instruction that’s totally down to him and his management methods. 
 

He actually sounds like an old school manager with this stuff which is what really surprised me.   And all this patter about being a manager being all encompassing and the amount you work and how hard he works - total crap.  Hours worked does not equal success.  Effective use of time does.  You can work hard but you also have to set an example to your team, including time off for yourself and your own well-being.  
 

That’s not to say he doesn’t care - it’s almost the opposite, he’s been swallowed up by how big the job is.  He looks utterly shattered and sounds end of his tether.  Either he has to quit or your board needs to put him out his misery.  

Spot on.

Do you think Jim Leishman at 70 could still do a job or is he happy being the Provost of the Kingdom ?

[BeeJay]

Dick Campbell once said in an interview that he doesn't speak to the club chairman/directors after a match when emotions are running high, and for that reason this interview should never have been broadcast. I think there's a good manager in Marv, but sometime in the future. He's suffered, in particular with Brydon and Mimnaugh being injured, as both made a difference. If he is given time, and that's the debate here, I think he can turn it round, but whether we can take that chance is another matter. The Board took a chance of a young inexperienced manager instead of going to the manager's merrigoround, and we were all reasonably happy at the time. But where we go from here is a real problem. I feel for Marv as he's giving a 100% but in life that doesn't always bring the hoped for result. Having watched Queens for over seventy years it would not surprise me if we win next Saturday...medication is the clearly working!

[19QOS19]

3 minutes ago, Nithsdale Wanderer said:

At the same time sowing a seed with some supporters that some players are letting the Club down hence leaving a negative vibe even after he is gone.

Tbf, unless folk have been attending games with their eyes shut then this didn't need pointed out. The players are letting us down. Every single week they're making costly basic errors that completely do us in. And as I say, not only the young inexperienced guys. 

I think it's him saying "even when I'm gone you're still going to be stuck with these guys who can't do the basics"*. The next guy has a helluva job on his hands eradicating that. Like I've said, a new manager might feel positive but unless it's done before January I can't see us drastically improving. 

* Not that MB shouldn't get equal blame given they're his players. 

[Diamonds are Forever]

There is a huge level of arrogance (or perhaps delusion) in the way he speaks about players making mistakes with his whole 'I've told them what to do/not to do, but they keep making these mistakes, I don't understand'. All these players he is coaching have been playing football for 10-15 years with dozens of coaches who will have been trying to improve them. If they are still making these errors it's because they firstly lack the fundamental technical skills, but also struggle with making decisions in a game situation. That doesn't mean that you should stop trying to coach them, obviously you should, but he seems to have this idea that all they needed was him to come in and tell them what to do and then suddenly they'd be a good player, it really doesn't work like that. His bemusement at Ambrose making a mistake is the epitome of this, has he ever actually watched Efe Ambrose play? He's made blunders his entire career, why would that stop now? He says they think 'doing the basics is too easy', no, they just can't do the basics which is why they are League 1.

You can have the all the drones in training, sports science developments, filming training etc you want, and they obviously can and do help if used correctly. But they are marginal gains. The core of football management at this level is recruitment of players who are suited to that level, and then having a style of play that suits those players. If you sign poor players and ask them to play a style they can't play then all the rest is a waste of time.

[leomessi1984]

12 hours ago, The rocket man said:

I’m the next manager. Odds on favourite with the bookies. Champions league is the 3 year plan. Taking the club to a whole new level. Was selling pies at the games last year and worked my way up 

Class! Pie man to powerhouse

[Shodwall cat]

9 hours ago, Terry_Tibbs said:

Hibs player Marvin Bartley threatened to ruin woman's life

He's obviously got a bit of a dark side to him and a short fuse I'm not sure I'd want him anywhere near my club.

[parsboi]

28 minutes ago, Nithsdale Wanderer said:

Spot on.

Do you think Jim Leishman at 70 could still do a job or is he happy being the Provost of the Kingdom ?

Love Leishman, but he was beyond his time in 2007 never mind now.  He pretty much said the same himself.    

[eez-eh]

9 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

I like how Gibson thinks getting his court approved 'not a racist' sticker means he can somehow attempt to rehabilitate his reputation as a manager, as if he wasn't totally fucking useless at that regardless.

I can’t believe it’s taken some of the Queen’s fans this long to realise he’s a helmet.

[Fae_the_'briggs]

33 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

I can’t believe it’s taken some of the Queen’s fans this long to realise he’s a helmet.

I don't think we need to be told he's a helmet tbf, we've seen plenty of him over the years to know that, but fans of any club generally don't look on their own players in the same way as outsiders do whilst they're playing for your Club. Kind of, he's a twat but he's our twat. 

 

[kayemphoto]

New Match Album: Queen of the South 1-3 Kelty Hearts

Full Album

 

[Fae_the_'briggs]

7 minutes ago, kayemphoto said:

New Match Album: Queen of the South 1-3 Kelty Hearts

Full Album

 

Ok, no need to rub it in, putting photos up on both sites. A deserved win in the end. 

[Distant Doonhamer]

1 hour ago, eez-eh said:

I can’t believe it’s taken some of the Queen’s fans this long to realise he’s a helmet.

I reckon there  are very few QOS fans who don’t recognise that Gibson is an arsehole. His on line utterances last night merely confirm that to be the case (again). 

[Rjc-1988]

32 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

There is a huge level of arrogance (or perhaps delusion) in the way he speaks about players making mistakes with his whole 'I've told them what to do/not to do, but they keep making these mistakes, I don't understand'. All these players he is coaching have been playing football for 10-15 years with dozens of coaches who will have been trying to improve them. If they are still making these errors it's because they firstly lack the fundamental technical skills, but also struggle with making decisions in a game situation. That doesn't mean that you should stop trying to coach them, obviously you should, but he seems to have this idea that all they needed was him to come in and tell them what to do and then suddenly they'd be a good player, it really doesn't work like that. His bemusement at Ambrose making a mistake is the epitome of this, has he ever actually watched Efe Ambrose play? He's made blunders his entire career, why would that stop now? He says they think 'doing the basics is too easy', no, they just can't do the basics which is why they are League 1.

You can have the all the drones in training, sports science developments, filming training etc you want, and they obviously can and do help if used correctly. But they are marginal gains. The core of football management at this level is recruitment of players who are suited to that level, and then having a style of play that suits those players. If you sign poor players and ask them to play a style they can't play then all the rest is a waste of time.

Absolutely spot on - the arrogance of any Manager to think that they can pre-empt exact match day scenarios and pre-coach players at this level of football is delusional to say the least. Recruitment is the number one priority followed by adapting a style of play that suits your players. Positive encouragement and good motivational skills complete the picture but stick to the basics and keep things as simple as possible.

[Passionate]

3 hours ago, Shodwall cat said:

He's obviously got a bit of a dark side to him and a short fuse I'm not sure I'd want him anywhere near my club.

I know Scottish football is normally all over this kind of stuff,  I wonder why he got let off lightly......

 

  Not to mention telling mistruths in the Quitongo tribunal,  a great ambassador for the PFA.....

[Moorie]

14 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

But that's expected of PT players. I'd like to think as FT professionals our players aren't doing things in their downtime that can negatively effect their performances. I'm in no way defending Bartley but once he's gone that kind of amateur behaviour is still going to be here from some of our players, which is quite concerning. 

Players hold the power. We seen this when Jim Goodwin was sacked by us. Still hold a little grudge towards some the players who are still with us who were part of that darvel and hibs beatings. 

From reading on here it club don’t want sack him to save money and players don’t want play for him it’s not going to end well for Queens 

[Mulberryblue]

5 hours ago, Rjc-1988 said:

Sadly that is the fact of the matter. Talking excessively is one of his faults and on this occasion he just “kept digging”. He is clearly feeling sorry for himself but the job at this level is a brutal one and with results and performances like we have witnessed there is nowhere to go.

He probably can’t understand why he is being so unsuccessful but let’s not forget our position last season was masked by one variable - Ruari Paton’s goals and assists. Take them out and we were basically as bad last season as now. 

Just been saying exactly the same re Ruari Paton. You could almost guarantee he would score if the ball got to him. He’s the main difference from last season. 

[Mulberryblue]

4 hours ago, Otis Blue said:

Re Marvin's interview - I think you can be quite media savvy/experienced as he obviously is, but the few minutes immediately after a bad loss is usually a very emotional moment for any manager at any level and at such times common sense can easily go out the window.  This was poor judgement from Marvin for participating in it, but probably more so very poor judgement by the club in the way it was handled and in even publishing it (was it even vetted/edited by the club's top level management prior to publishing?).

I thought a very telling point was where Marvin (almost accepting and acknowledging the inevitable) said that he doubted that an incoming manager could get much more out of those players.  I think he actually hit the nail on the proverbial head there - it's hardly going to be an attractive prospect for any new manager that he'll have to work with such a poor squad with only minor adjustments possible in January.

These are truly dire times at Palmy.

I disagree. A different manager, doing things differently, potentially could get more from the current squad. The combination of an Inexperienced manager and mostly inexperienced squad may be the problem. You have to have a high level of emotional intelligence and understand what motivates each individual player to get the most from them. 
 

Absolutely no doubt that Marvin talks a good game. But not convinced that he has the capacity for enough flexibility or empathy with the players. He seems very rigid and inflexible to me. 

[Hendo]

51 minutes ago, Passionate said:

I know Scottish football is normally all over this kind of stuff,  I wonder why he got let off lightly......

 

  Not to mention telling mistruths in the Quitongo tribunal,  a great ambassador for the PFA.....

When he was made some sort of diversity ambassador by the SFA, i queried on here whether his conviction made him a suitable candidate for such a role, and was roundly shouted down, mainly by Livi fans who seemed to think his anti racism work over compensated.