The Queen of the South thread

[Monkey Tennis]

4 hours ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

There is a huge level of arrogance (or perhaps delusion) in the way he speaks about players making mistakes with his whole 'I've told them what to do/not to do, but they keep making these mistakes, I don't understand'. All these players he is coaching have been playing football for 10-15 years with dozens of coaches who will have been trying to improve them. If they are still making these errors it's because they firstly lack the fundamental technical skills, but also struggle with making decisions in a game situation. That doesn't mean that you should stop trying to coach them, obviously you should, but he seems to have this idea that all they needed was him to come in and tell them what to do and then suddenly they'd be a good player, it really doesn't work like that. 

Excellent post.

It mirrors some of the discussion on here last week.  I think he's very naive, as well as perhaps somewhat deluded.

He seems to think management is primarily about telling players precisely what to do in given scenarios.  That's possibly unfair, but it's the impression he gives in these interviews.

[Terry_Tibbs]

 

1 hour ago, Mulberryblue said:

I disagree. A different manager, doing things differently, potentially could get more from the current squad. The combination of an Inexperienced manager and mostly inexperienced squad may be the problem. You have to have a high level of emotional intelligence and understand what motivates each individual player to get the most from them. 
 

Absolutely no doubt that Marvin talks a good game. But not convinced that he has the capacity for enough flexibility or empathy with the players. He seems very rigid and inflexible to me. 

Agreed.

"But the art of management has not changed. The art of it is still 80 to 90 per cent man-management. It is just a matter of getting the best out of what you have got." - Neil Warnock

"My teams have never been supposed to be able to do the things that they do." - Warnock.

[HighlandQueen]

2 hours ago, Moorie said:

Players hold the power. We seen this when Jim Goodwin was sacked by us. Still hold a little grudge towards some the players who are still with us who were part of that darvel and hibs beatings. 

From reading on here it club don’t want sack him to save money and players don’t want play for him it’s not going to end well for Queens 

Fair assessment. We could go down at this rate

[HighlandQueen]

2 hours ago, Rjc-1988 said:

Absolutely spot on - the arrogance of any Manager to think that they can pre-empt exact match day scenarios and pre-coach players at this level of football is delusional to say the least. Recruitment is the number one priority followed by adapting a style of play that suits your players. Positive encouragement and good motivational skills complete the picture but stick to the basics and keep things as simple as possible.

I think you are correct

[Katboy]

Well reading this thread has certainly livened up my Sunday!

That interview to me was one of a man who knows his time is up.  Spent half of it focusing on basic errors at the back while ignoring his own failings, and failings in the rest of the team.  While he is right to call out instances of unprofessionalism from some players his very public condemnation isn't really the best way to go about it.  After that this is never going to end well.  Very surprised that the club has allowed that interview to be published.

Its a shame how it has worked out for him and the club.  I like the man and find him intelligent and articulate.  I genuinely wanted him to do well.  However, there is no way back now, and change has to be made.

[Monkey Tennis]

5 hours ago, BeeJay said:

 I think there's a good manager in Marv, but sometime in the future. 

I think you're maybe right.

He is articulate, thoughtful and hard working.

However, he really has made an absolute arse of his first go at it.  If he gets another shot, he needs to approach it with a bit more realism, and possibly some more humility too.  

I'm of the view now that we do need to part ways with him, but I've no particular ill will towards him. 

If he's going to be an all conquering Champions' League and World Cup winning manager though, who gets to write a triumphal autobiography in 20 years time, he's going to need to have learned an awful lot from its dismal opening chapter.

[Kelheart]

3 hours ago, Rjc-1988 said:

Absolutely spot on - the arrogance of any Manager to think that they can pre-empt exact match day scenarios and pre-coach players at this level of football is delusional to say the least. Recruitment is the number one priority followed by adapting a style of play that suits your players. Positive encouragement and good motivational skills complete the picture but stick to the basics and keep things as simple as possible.

Wholeheartedly agree recruiting of the right players is key neeb , I thought we were going to be a mess this season , bringing in likes of Cunningham from Clyde , Walker from Caley braves Daramola from Bo'ness athletic etc but Tidser had a plan clearly and got the players for that plan , his recruitment has been phenomenal in such a short space of time and they are all buying into it think that's key as well , like I said earlier QOS look like a bunch of individuals chucked together for a kick about at the moment 

[Monkey Tennis]

7 hours ago, bennett said:

A wii bit of Sunday morning drama on the Qots thread wasn't expected. 

Just so long as you don't go starting a Banter Years thread for us.

[Binos]

2 hours ago, Hendo said:

When he was made some sort of diversity ambassador by the SFA, i queried on here whether his conviction made him a suitable candidate for such a role, and was roundly shouted down, mainly by Livi fans who seemed to think his anti racism work over compensated.

The two issues should have no bearing on each other 

[Balde Bairn]

I think the problem Queens have is it’s going to cost a lot to pay Bartley off. You also then have to recruit and there’s no obvious choice for who you bring in that can genuinely improve results. League 1 is not a good place to be when things start going wrong, the league is not suitable for full-time clubs. Falkirk average 4000 at home and we have found ourselves financially struggling. I do feel for you. 

[19QOS19]

27 minutes ago, Kelheart said:

 ...like I said earlier QOS look like a bunch of individuals chucked together for a kick about at the moment 

This is spot on. I left a game a few weeks back (can't remember which one, possibly the Cove game) and when I tried to slate an individual in my mind I really couldn't. We obviously weren't good but it wasn't like too many players had bad games, they didn't do much wrong, they just didn't do anything positive either. It's a strange because as much as a collective we have no one willing to get stuck in, there are still a few I'd be happy enough to stay and try and work around. 

Every season we keep saying "clear out the lot of them!" and then the next season we have to build a completely new side. It really doesn't work. If we could get a manager in who could bring in a handful of individuals who can gel as a unit we have a few players who could compliment that. That of course is far easier to say than do. 

[Monkey Tennis]

10 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

 I left a game a few weeks back (can't remember which one, possibly the Cove game) and when I tried to slate an individual in my mind I really couldn't. 

Bartley has no such difficulty.

[sneeuq]

24 hours later and cannot believe he still hasn’t done the only right thing he should do. He can’t even get this right. His decision making is wrong in recruitment, tactics, substitutions, interviews. Not sure he has got one thing right in  his tenure. 

[Hendo]

31 minutes ago, Binos said:

The two issues should have no bearing on each other 

Why? I would have thought having a conviction for threatening a woman should have a bearing on your suitability to be a diversity champion, particularly when the SFA / SPFL are supposedly trying to grow the womens game.

[19QOS19]

9 minutes ago, sneeuq said:

24 hours later and cannot believe he still hasn’t done the only right thing he should do. He can’t even get this right. His decision making is wrong in recruitment, tactics, substitutions, interviews. Not sure he has got one thing right in  his tenure. 

I mean as much as I'm done, I really wouldn't expect anybody to willingly walk away from 18 months of wages. It's purely down to the board to deal with it. 

[Distant Doonhamer]

2 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

I mean as much as I'm done, I really wouldn't expect anybody to willingly walk away from 18 months of wages. It's purely down to the board to deal with it. 

This.

[MallanandFlanagan]

[palmy_cammy]

Obviously longer term the club needs cleared out and rebuilt from top to bottom, but would a short-term fix be to appoint a “wise old head” to assist Bartley, fill in the obvious gaps in his skillset, and mend the rifts in the camp?

Of course the clear weakness in this plan is a list of obvious candidates, and the fact the damage is possibly already done now. Maybe this was an idea for a month or so back.

It’s a shame that for probably the first time in their tenure the board have made an ambitious appointment, that actually pointed to a bit of forward thinking and longer-term planning, and it’s proven to be a disaster.

Lots of people still seem to think Bartley has something about him. If the situation could be saved it would be better for everyone, than going back to the endless, depressing cycle of ripping it up and starting again every year.

[Arab_R_us]

41 minutes ago, Hendo said:

Why? I would have thought having a conviction for threatening a woman should have a bearing on your suitability to be a diversity champion, particularly when the SFA / SPFL are supposedly trying to grow the womens game.

"Livingston captain Marvin Bartley has been named as an Equality Advisor by the Scottish Football Association."

surprising since he has a police record for threatening women

[Kelheart]

1 hour ago, 19QOS19 said:

This is spot on. I left a game a few weeks back (can't remember which one, possibly the Cove game) and when I tried to slate an individual in my mind I really couldn't. We obviously weren't good but it wasn't like too many players had bad games, they didn't do much wrong, they just didn't do anything positive either. It's a strange because as much as a collective we have no one willing to get stuck in, there are still a few I'd be happy enough to stay and try and work around. 

Every season we keep saying "clear out the lot of them!" and then the next season we have to build a completely new side. It really doesn't work. If we could get a manager in who could bring in a handful of individuals who can gel as a unit we have a few players who could compliment that. That of course is far easier to say than do. 

Few good players in your team as well imo just not gelling right , I thought Church was best LB in league last season , losing Paton had been a big loss for you guys as well