The Queen of the South thread

[QosLoyal]

Would get in an extra CM ontop of the 3 signings, to cover Tapping for when he gets injured.

[lionel wickson]

3 hours ago, kirkyblue2 said:

I see the SLO has left. Why don't they advertise the post and give the job to a fan?

I would like to nominate Rusty.

[kirkyblue2]

11 minutes ago, lionel wickson said:

I would like to nominate Rusty.

 Must have an IQ in double figures.

[QoS_1919]

2 hours ago, Dougie Mills said:

The point is we've still never finished higher than 4th and look no nearer to promotion to the top flight than we did back then.

Also winning the 2nd division while only losing twice obviously wouldn't have been possible if we hadn't had such a poor side the previous season.

League position aye. But we done the unthinkable by getting into Europe. So how you can compare that to over 10 year ago is down right stupid. 

[palmy_cammy]

I would like to nominate Rusty.

Can you imagine the minutes from that meeting? Just 50 pages of one sentence questions from Rusty, being answered by Rusty.

[die hard doonhamer]

League position aye. But we done the unthinkable by getting into Europe. So how you can compare that to over 10 year ago is down right stupid. 

We had one unexpected result against the (at the time) perennial semi final bottlers in Aberdeen. Yes, it was a great experience, and I'd give a lot to live through it all again, but other than that there is nothing we have achieved in the last 10 years that we hadn't done in the 10 before Connolly.

[Dougie Mills]

31 minutes ago, QoS_1919 said:

League position aye. But we done the unthinkable by getting into Europe. So how you can compare that to over 10 year ago is down right stupid. 

You do realise it's not that far from 10 years since that Scottish Cup run?

I'd say league placings is a pretty good gauge as to whether the club has moved forward on the pitch.

Anyways it's a pointless argument.

[Skyline Drifter]

44 minutes ago, die hard doonhamer said:

We had one unexpected result against the (at the time) perennial semi final bottlers in Aberdeen. Yes, it was a great experience, and I'd give a lot to live through it all again, but other than that there is nothing we have achieved in the last 10 years that we hadn't done in the 10 before Connolly.

I'm maybe not quite understanding what you are trying to say here but thats not right at all. Did you mean nothing we hadnt done under Connolly? Think that would be harsh but take the point. On the other hand the idea that we have done nothing in the last decade that we didnt achieve in the 90s is nonsense! We never got out of Division 2 in the 90s. The only thing of note we achieved was a runners up spot in the 1997 Challenge Cup.

[die hard doonhamer]

I'm maybe not quite understanding what you are trying to say here but thats not right at all. Did you mean nothing we hadnt done under Connolly? Think that would be harsh but take the point. On the other hand the idea that we have done nothing in the last decade that we didnt achieve in the 90s is nonsense! We never got out of Division 2 in the 90s. The only thing of note we achieved was a runners up spot in the 1997 Challenge Cup.

I should probably have said before Connolly left, in those 10 years we had been in 2 challenge cup finals, 1 win 1 loss, and won a division 2 title. Other than the Scottish cup final, the notable events of the last 10 years read exactly the same.

[Monkey Tennis]

4 minutes ago, die hard doonhamer said:

I should probably have said before Connolly left

That makes more sense.  

I was a bit baffled by the original too.

[Skyline Drifter]

6 minutes ago, die hard doonhamer said:

I should probably have said before Connolly left, in those 10 years we had been in 2 challenge cup finals, 1 win 1 loss, and won a division 2 title. Other than the Scottish cup final, the notable events of the last 10 years read exactly the same.

 

1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said:

That makes more sense.  

I was a bit baffled by the original too.

It makes more sense but I still think its far too dismissive of the last decade, even leaving aside the Scottish Cup Final and Europe. We may never have beaten the 4th spot in the 2nd league Connolly managed once but we have repeated it several times, generally in higher quality divisions and with many more points. We had another Scottish Cup q-f and a League Cup q-f just last year, neither of which Connolly achieved. We have gone toe to toe with some of the country's biggest clubs, becoming the second lower division side ever to knock Rangers out of a cup at Ibrox. We also battered Rangers 5-0 on aggregate over two games at Palmerston in one season and racked up several wins over Hibs including a couple at Easter Road. That week when we beat Hibs, Rangers and Falkirk without conceding a goal will live long in the memory.

I am not trying to dismiss the Connolly years achievements but the idea we have done nothing better in the last decade is very harsh IMO.

[palmy_cammy]

I didn't think what I had posted was all that controversial, and wasn't really expecting a debate but that's forums for you I guess!  The point I was really making was that the strides we have taken off the field have probably been far greater than those on it.  The bit I was meaning to highlight was the big strides off the park, not the less big strides on it!

Clearly things have improved on the park as well, with the move to full-time football a very obvious example, but probably not at the same rate as behind the scenes.  I very much doubt Andy Goram wore a heart rate monitor, or followed a diet plan during his time off (or time on for that matter).

It's great that we are adopting all of these modern techniques and taking things such as diet and nutrition seriously.  The way the game has changed, even in my relatively short time watching it, means that we need to be doing these kind of things just to keep pace with everyone else.  I really like the idea that the under 20s training is going to be structured in the same way as the first team.  It seems really obvious but it's not something I would have necessarily thought about until it was pointed out.

[Monkey Tennis]

21 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

It makes more sense but I still think its far too dismissive of the last decade, even leaving aside the Scottish Cup Final and Europe. We may never have beaten the 4th spot in the 2nd league Connolly managed once but we have repeated it several times, generally in higher quality divisions and with many more points. We had another Scottish Cup q-f and a League Cup q-f just last year, neither of which Connolly achieved. We have gone toe to toe with some of the country's biggest clubs, becoming the second lower division side ever to knock Rangers out of a cup at Ibrox. We also battered Rangers 5-0 on aggregate over two games at Palmerston in one season and racked up several wins over Hibs including a couple at Easter Road. That week when we beat Hibs, Rangers and Falkirk without conceding a goal will live long in the memory.

I am not trying to dismiss the Connolly years achievements but the idea we have done nothing better in the last decade is very harsh IMO.

Yes but comparing the relatively brief part time Connolly era with several full time eras thereafter isn't particularly fair either.

As Cammy says, the view he expresses is not especially controversial.  The club made big strides on the playing front in the early years of this century, but has stayed in much the same place since, despite some highlights we can all locate easily.

[Skyline Drifter]

4 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Yes but comparing the relatively brief part time Connolly era with several full time eras thereafter isn't particularly fair either.

As Cammy says, the view he expresses is not especially controversial.  The club made big strides on the playing front in the early years of this century, but has stayed in much the same place since, despite some highlights we can all locate easily.

Cammy's view was fine. No issue with it. I addressed dhd's later, more expansive post. And I acknowledge the view. I dont really agree with it though.

And we are not comparing only the 4 years of Connolly. The comment compared the 10 years up to 2004 with the 10 years to 2017. Its part time v full time granted (which is in itself an achievement) but its not an unequal time period.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Skyline Drifter

[Monkey Tennis]

9 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Cammy's view was fine. No issue with it. I addressed dhd's later, more expansive post. And I acknowledge the view. I dont really agree with it though.

And we are not comparing only the 4 years of Connolly. The comment compared the 10 years up to 2004 with the 10 years to 2017. Its part time v full time granted (which is in itself an achievement) but its not an unequal time period.

Fair enough.

1994-2004 was certainly much less successful than 2004-2014.

We've not really moved on in a playing sense much since 2004 though.  That's actually ok.  We've now had a long spell of punching pretty much at our weight, following a longer one of punching well below it.

[Doonhamer doon south]

43 minutes ago, palmy_cammy said:

I didn't think what I had posted was all that controversial, and wasn't really expecting a debate but that's forums for you I guess!  The point I was really making was that the strides we have taken off the field have probably been far greater than those on it.  The bit I was meaning to highlight was the big strides off the park, not the less big strides on it!

Clearly things have improved on the park as well, with the move to full-time football a very obvious example, but probably not at the same rate as behind the scenes.  I very much doubt Andy Goram wore a heart rate monitor, or followed a diet plan during his time off (or time on for that matter).

It's great that we are adopting all of these modern techniques and taking things such as diet and nutrition seriously.  The way the game has changed, even in my relatively short time watching it, means that we need to be doing these kind of things just to keep pace with everyone else.  I really like the idea that the under 20s training is going to be structured in the same way as the first team.  It seems really obvious but it's not something I would have necessarily thought about until it was pointed out.

One of the greatest challenges tho is getting people through the turnstiles. Yes its great the arena and everything else on and off the park but trying to get fans in to watch a game seems hard to do. The return of Dobbie didn't seem to have a great impact on home gates or that amazing first quarter of season. Whenever i make it up for a match day i see loads of queens shirts and scarves but i also see a fair few old firm tops as well. Its frustrating. For a club that's easily the biggest in the region and the only one that is full time our home crowds are disappointing. As has been pointed out we are cheap to watch in the league and are . . . capable of playing good football. The board are overall doing a decent job but home crowds are not quite there.  

[Fae_the_'briggs]

I don't really see what more the Board can do to get more fans through the gate. Admission prices are as low as they can make them I presume if we want to stay full time. The matches are fairly well advertised for those with any interest in attending. The Board could splash out silly money to bring in a raft of big signings in the hope that it would boost our promotion chances and boost the crowd at the same time, but that would probably be a short term fix with nothing guaranteed and prices would inevitably rise to keep pace with a growing wage bill. In the absence of a very wealthy and generous benefactor I doubt if any of our Board members are in the position to pump in excessive amounts of cash, ie one million plus, to bring in a batch of marquee signings. I think we have to be realistic and accept that interest in QoS and football in general is waning. Some posters on this and the MAD site bemoan the fact that a group of young fans have been driven out because of alleged over-zealous stewarding, but even if they were all to return and bring a few others with them it's hardly going to boost the attendance or bank balance by any significant amount. That's not to say that every extra fan through the gate is not welcome but it's hardly going to propel us into the top budget bracket, we probably need another 500 to 1000 regulars at least to have a  chance of competing regularly at the top end of the table and progressing further but I don't think that there's any chance of that happening no matter how hard you wish it would.

 

[Homer Thompson]

14 minutes ago, Fae_the_'briggs said:

I don't really see what more the Board can do to get more fans through the gate. Admission prices are as low as they can make them I presume if we want to stay full time. The matches are fairly well advertised for those with any interest in attending. The Board could splash out silly money to bring in a raft of big signings in the hope that it would boost our promotion chances and boost the crowd at the same time, but that would probably be a short term fix with nothing guaranteed and prices would inevitably rise to keep pace with a growing wage bill. In the absence of a very wealthy and generous benefactor I doubt if any of our Board members are in the position to pump in excessive amounts of cash, ie one million plus, to bring in a batch of marquee signings. I think we have to be realistic and accept that interest in QoS and football in general is waning. Some posters on this and the MAD site bemoan the fact that a group of young fans have been driven out because of alleged over-zealous stewarding, but even if they were all to return and bring a few others with them it's hardly going to boost the attendance or bank balance by any significant amount. That's not to say that every extra fan through the gate is not welcome but it's hardly going to propel us into the top budget bracket, we probably need another 500 to 1000 regulars at least to have a  chance of competing regularly at the top end of the table and progressing further but I don't think that there's any chance of that happening no matter how hard you wish it would.

 

I think theres always more that can be done, certainly in terms of advertising, social media and the "matchday experience" but I agree with your underlying point - its incredibly difficult to get fans through the gates. Hopefully, the free kids will have a positive impact on the cup gates and that carries over into the league games too.

Its unlikely theres a magic bullet for this. In my opinion, its going to take lots of little things, all contributing, to increase the crowds and theres already been some good ideas come out of the supporters meetings

[SUPERSOUTH]

On 28/06/2017 at 20:59, Dumfries Boy(new acc) said:

For a team that's not going to have all the ball i dont think we can afford another "luxury player",We need someone who will chase down defenders and run in behind I feel 

Might be wrong as it's a deadly strike force but don't think he's the type of forward we need

Who says we ain't going to have the ball? With Mcfadden in the team we are more likely to have it, get him signed till Xmas, see how he can influence games. Sign defender McLean then just a striker with pace and Joe Thomson on loan, would complete squad for start of season.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, Fae_the_'briggs said:

I don't really see what more the Board can do to get more fans through the gate. Admission prices are as low as they can make them I presume if we want to stay full time. The matches are fairly well advertised for those with any interest in attending. The Board could splash out silly money to bring in a raft of big signings in the hope that it would boost our promotion chances and boost the crowd at the same time, but that would probably be a short term fix with nothing guaranteed and prices would inevitably rise to keep pace with a growing wage bill. In the absence of a very wealthy and generous benefactor I doubt if any of our Board members are in the position to pump in excessive amounts of cash, ie one million plus, to bring in a batch of marquee signings. I think we have to be realistic and accept that interest in QoS and football in general is waning. Some posters on this and the MAD site bemoan the fact that a group of young fans have been driven out because of alleged over-zealous stewarding, but even if they were all to return and bring a few others with them it's hardly going to boost the attendance or bank balance by any significant amount. That's not to say that every extra fan through the gate is not welcome but it's hardly going to propel us into the top budget bracket, we probably need another 500 to 1000 regulars at least to have a  chance of competing regularly at the top end of the table and progressing further but I don't think that there's any chance of that happening no matter how hard you wish it would.

 

I agree with pretty much all this although would add that even 500 - 1000 regulars might move us into the realms of Morton but would still leave us well behind the likes of Falkirk, St Mirren & Dunfermline. Even regular gates between 2500 and 3000 would still leave us fighting against far bigger budget squads at this level. We can work on increasing gates obviously but getting to a level where we can compete with those size of clubs year on year is not going to happen any time soon. Instead we have to work on signing cleverly and developing our own players. Sometimes you get a group come together at the right time with the right blend to do really well, like the group which started with Allan Johnston and more or less finished at the end of James Fowler's first season. That group was able to compete at the top and in a normal season might have pushed for promotion. had they not peaked in a year we had Rangers, Hearts and Hibs in our division! The squad has effectively been rebuilt since then though and only Derek Lyle, probably in his last season, remains from the squad Fowler inherited (Carmichael has gone and come back). There are no other Johnston signings still here and no McIntyre ones either.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Skyline Drifter