The Queen of the South thread

[SueSue]

Are we really going to waste both our times on this?

I am going for my tea.

I actually thought your initial reply was decent. 

[Monkey Tennis]

5 hours ago, SueSue said:

People very quick to blame the defence when we draw 2 2 or 3 3.

yet nothing said when the defence keep a clean sheet and we fail to take chances at the other end.

Simply not true.

Loads got said.  

[Steeplechat]

Draw and loss the wrong way around. Either way, it's not the worst record but it's hardly worth getting excited over either.

Stephen Dobbie is though

[Steeplechat]

Including cup games, we've conceded 15 goals in 8 games at home. But 7 in 7 away games. 2 of the 8 at home were against 'lesser teams' who were Crusaders and Stranraer where we conceded 6 goals. 3 clean sheets at home so thats 15 goals in 5 games and 3 clean sheets away which makes it 7 conceded in 4 away. Make of that as you wish. 

We’ve had clean sheets at half our league games so far. Decent effort I’d say

[Skyline Drifter]

I think its interesting that there isnt a single match this season we have conceded one goal in. We have played 15 games: 8 League, 5 Betfred Cup & 2 Irn Bru Cup. We have 7 clean sheets, 3 times we have conceded 2 goals, 4 times we have conceded 3 goals and once we conceded 4 (though granted that one was in extra time and we only conceded one in the 90 mins). 

It seems if we concede at all, we go on to concede again. 7 clean sheets have yielded 5 wins and 2 draws. Surprisingly, considering we have conceded 2 or more 8 times, we still have 3 wins and a draw from those 8 games. And 2 of the 4 losses were to Premiership sides, one of those in extra time. 

We are relatively free scoring, even if mostly down to one man. If we can cut down on conceding 2nd and 3rd goals we should win more points than we lose. Easier said than done though.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Skyline Drifter

[RandomGuy.]

On 10/10/2018 at 15:30, QosLoyal said:

On 10/10/2018 at 13:06, SueSue said:

The most exciting games we have had for years and still numbers drop.
i don’t understand !! 

Winning team on the park = more fans. If we can climb the table and perform more consistently im sure the attendances will improve. Although maybe not as much as they would have in past years.

Don't get your hopes up. Our crowds have a minimal increase, hugely down to more kids coming thanks to our incredible offer for kids, despite a major trophy and multiple top four finishes.

Fans who have turned their back won't return, they'll just make new excuses. Only way to increase your crowds is to try and attract a younger generation and get them into the habit of going before other activities take a grip.

[SueSue]

As I have said before, Stats can be turned and used in any way to highlight a point.

everyone will make their own minds up how we are doing this season. 

The league will be very close this season so a couple of wins in a row will propel you up the league quickly.

[steakpiegravy]

5 minutes ago, SueSue said:

As I have said before, Stats can be turned and used in any way to highlight a point.

everyone will make their own minds up how we are doing this season. 

The league will be very close this season so a couple of wins in a row will propel you up the league quickly.

Aye but I think you kind of lost the point of the original posting in all of that. The question wasn't why YOU go, its why do other people not. 

[Skyline Drifter]

Anyway, changing the subject to the other end of the pitch, I thought I'd have a quick look at how Stephen Dobbie's phenomenal scoring rate at the start of the season compares to Nicky Clark in his 41 goal season in 2012-13.  Whilst he's still well short of that, you'd have to consider at the moment that record (Clark matched the previous target of Jimmy Rutherford) is a legitimate target .

In 2012-13 we played 46 games in total (36 League, 2 Scottish Cup, 3 League Cup & 5 Ramsdens Cup). Nicky Clark started all 46 of them. His scoring rate at the start of the season wasn't that exceptional though. He really picked up from November onwards. I looked at his totals at the end of each month:
End of July - 1 game, 1 goal
End of August - 7 games, 5 goals
End of September - 13 games, 9 goals
End of October - 17 games, 11 goals
End of November - 21 games, 16 goals
End of December - 26 games, 21 goals
End of January - 30 games, 26 goals
End of February - 34 games, 28 goals
End of March - 40 games, 33 goals
End of April - 45 games, 40 goals
End of season - 46 games, 41 goals

Nicky achieved his 41 goal season in a lower division of course, though he scored against Premier League and 1st division sides in cups without missing a beat. He wasn't our penalty taker that season and I don't think any of his goals were penalties off the top of my head (McGuffie was taker when he was on the pitch and Lyle next choice).

The football calendar has changed a bit with the Betfred Cup groups now and more games played in July. Dobbie's current record though is:
End of July - 4 games, 7 goals
End of August - 9 games, 14 goals
End of September - 14 games, 21 goals
(Currently 15 games, 24 goals)

Dobbie IS our penalty taker and his total includes two successful penalties (he also missed one against Ayr or he'd have 25 already).

We are guaranteed another 28 League games and at least 2 more cup ties so our minimum fixtures total 45 (hopefully we'll have more cup ties and potentially post season playoffs to add to that).

He clearly is a mile ahead of Clark on scoring rate at the moment. Clark took 28 games to reach 24 goals. Dobbie is on that after 15. However, from end of October Clark averaged better than a goal a game for the rest of the season (30 goals in 29 games) which is a terrific consistent run of scoring over 6 months. It's certainly not a given that Dobbie will get 17 or 18 more goals even if he remains fit and plays every game. If he can continue the present phenomenal run for a bit longer though it's going to be very interesting what total he can reach.

[SueSue]

24 minutes ago, steakpiegravy said:

Aye but I think you kind of lost the point of the original posting in all of that. The question wasn't why YOU go, its why do other people not. 

Yes ..... I did lose the point.

it happens regularly to be honest

[Doonhamer doon south]

3 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Anyway, changing the subject to the other end of the pitch, I thought I'd have a quick look at how Stephen Dobbie's phenomenal scoring rate at the start of the season compares to Nicky Clark in his 41 goal season in 2012-13.  Whilst he's still well short of that, you'd have to consider at the moment that record (Clark matched the previous target of Jimmy Rutherford) is a legitimate target .

In 2012-13 we played 46 games in total (36 League, 2 Scottish Cup, 3 League Cup & 5 Ramsdens Cup). Nicky Clark started all 46 of them. His scoring rate at the start of the season wasn't that exceptional though. He really picked up from November onwards. I looked at his totals at the end of each month:
End of July - 1 game, 1 goal
End of August - 7 games, 5 goals
End of September - 13 games, 9 goals
End of October - 17 games, 11 goals
End of November - 21 games, 16 goals
End of December - 26 games, 21 goals
End of January - 30 games, 26 goals
End of February - 34 games, 28 goals
End of March - 40 games, 33 goals
End of April - 45 games, 40 goals
End of season - 46 games, 41 goals

Nicky achieved his 41 goal season in a lower division of course, though he scored against Premier League and 1st division sides in cups without missing a beat. He wasn't our penalty taker that season and I don't think any of his goals were penalties off the top of my head (McGuffie was taker when he was on the pitch and Lyle next choice).

The football calendar has changed a bit with the Betfred Cup groups now and more games played in July. Dobbie's current record though is:
End of July - 4 games, 7 goals
End of August - 9 games, 14 goals
End of September - 14 games, 21 goals
(Currently 15 games, 24 goals)

Dobbie IS our penalty taker and his total includes two successful penalties (he also missed one against Ayr or he'd have 25 already).

We are guaranteed another 28 League games and at least 2 more cup ties so our minimum fixtures total 45 (hopefully we'll have more cup ties and potentially post season playoffs to add to that).

He clearly is a mile ahead of Clark on scoring rate at the moment. Clark took 28 games to reach 24 goals. Dobbie is on that after 15. However, from end of October Clark averaged better than a goal a game for the rest of the season (30 goals in 29 games) which is a terrific consistent run of scoring over 6 months. It's certainly not a given that Dobbie will get 17 or 18 more goals even if he remains fit and plays every game. If he can continue the present phenomenal run for a bit longer though it's going to be very interesting what total he can reach.

Yep defiantly a record that he can overhaul and I hope he does. There are another two noticeable records as well that he is fast hauling in. 

 

The first is total goals scored in the challenge cup. Current he is 3rd in the all time list. Here is the top 5. 

Rory McAllister 18 goals and cant add to the total this season

Greig Spence 15 goals but can add to the total this season

Stephen Dobbie 14 goals and can most defiantly add to his total. He could gain ground on Saturday.

Craig Gunn 11 goals unlikely to ever catch up

Liam Buchanan 10 goals and cant add to his total this season. 

 

The second record is the current format of the championship total goal scorers 

Jason Cummings 55 goals

Derek Lyle 51 goals

Stephen Dobbie 49 goals

John Baird 48 goals

James Keatings 41 goals

Nicky Clark 40 goals

 

He could be the all time top goal scorer in the championship (current format) before Christmas. 

[Distant Doonhamer]

4 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Anyway, changing the subject to the other end of the pitch, I thought I'd have a quick look at how Stephen Dobbie's phenomenal scoring rate at the start of the season compares to Nicky Clark in his 41 goal season in 2012-13.  Whilst he's still well short of that, you'd have to consider at the moment that record (Clark matched the previous target of Jimmy Rutherford) is a legitimate target .

In 2012-13 we played 46 games in total (36 League, 2 Scottish Cup, 3 League Cup & 5 Ramsdens Cup). Nicky Clark started all 46 of them. His scoring rate at the start of the season wasn't that exceptional though. He really picked up from November onwards. I looked at his totals at the end of each month:
End of July - 1 game, 1 goal
End of August - 7 games, 5 goals
End of September - 13 games, 9 goals
End of October - 17 games, 11 goals
End of November - 21 games, 16 goals
End of December - 26 games, 21 goals
End of January - 30 games, 26 goals
End of February - 34 games, 28 goals
End of March - 40 games, 33 goals
End of April - 45 games, 40 goals
End of season - 46 games, 41 goals

Nicky achieved his 41 goal season in a lower division of course, though he scored against Premier League and 1st division sides in cups without missing a beat. He wasn't our penalty taker that season and I don't think any of his goals were penalties off the top of my head (McGuffie was taker when he was on the pitch and Lyle next choice).

The football calendar has changed a bit with the Betfred Cup groups now and more games played in July. Dobbie's current record though is:
End of July - 4 games, 7 goals
End of August - 9 games, 14 goals
End of September - 14 games, 21 goals
(Currently 15 games, 24 goals)

Dobbie IS our penalty taker and his total includes two successful penalties (he also missed one against Ayr or he'd have 25 already).

We are guaranteed another 28 League games and at least 2 more cup ties so our minimum fixtures total 45 (hopefully we'll have more cup ties and potentially post season playoffs to add to that).

He clearly is a mile ahead of Clark on scoring rate at the moment. Clark took 28 games to reach 24 goals. Dobbie is on that after 15. However, from end of October Clark averaged better than a goal a game for the rest of the season (30 goals in 29 games) which is a terrific consistent run of scoring over 6 months. It's certainly not a given that Dobbie will get 17 or 18 more goals even if he remains fit and plays every game. If he can continue the present phenomenal run for a bit longer though it's going to be very interesting what total he can reach.

Great post. Was discussing this very issue the other day. If he stays fit then Dobbie must have a shot at the 41 goals. It would be quite something to beat Nicky`s record while playing a league above. Who knows how many he would get a league down. Hopefully we don`t get the chance to find out 

[19QOS19]

Will there be a relegation release clause in Dobbie's contract? Obviously I don't want us to go down but if Clark could get 40 odd goals at that level, imagine the damage Dobbie would do [emoji38]

[baw heid]

Regarding all these posts on winning and defending to get fans back to our games I would refer to the after match interview with Mr Dobbie when he was commenting on his 3 goals.  He accepted that in his opinion he did not play as well as he could have by loosing possession too often and in relation to us loosing goals he said that our defending needed to be much better up front.  We play an attacking game by pushing our full (wing) backs up and we do it well however when we loose the ball we have little cover in place. So if goals and wins bring back the fans then we will need to make changes to how we are set up. Naismith also said he was concerned how we can loose 2 or 3 goals as no matter how the game is poised we keep bombing forward, Queens don't do Game Management. To me it is a management issue on how the team is set up. If we stay with attacking full backs we need 2 in the midfield who will cover the attacker. What surprises me is that with only 2 CBs in place we have managed to get clean sheets. We seem to be better when away but if goals and wins are needed to get the fans back then we need to address the home set up. With Dobbie in our team we will get goals only maybe not so many.

As an aside how can Scotland play 2 very good left full backs out of position, ensuring neither play well and hope to attract back fans to the international games. I always feel that Queens fans and the Tartan Army are great away from home but  suffer to attract the extra support at home. To quote a well known song " It's a Mithtery"

[QoS_1919]

10 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

Will there be a relegation release clause in Dobbie's contract? Obviously I don't want us to go down but if Clark could get 40 odd goals at that level, imagine the damage Dobbie would do

Agree. Don't want us to go down but would definitely be interesting. 

[queenslad]

What could Dobbie have brought to the Scotland game last night - apart from goals?

I don't think the team was set up in a manner that Dobbie would have been able to contribute too. The front players Naismith/Russell/McBurnie never had much quality possession or time and space in the final third

[QoS_1919]

15 minutes ago, queenslad said:

What could Dobbie have brought to the Scotland game last night - apart from goals?

I don't think the team was set up in a manner that Dobbie would have been able to contribute too. The front players Naismith/Russell/McBurnie never had much quality possession or time and space in the final third

It's usually goals you want from your striker. 

[steakpiegravy]

Couple of QOS related answers on Pointless last night. Michael Keaton films  - "A Shot at Glory" didn't get a mention but surely pointless...

And the final question was Scotland hall of famers (a bit topical this week) for which Ally McLeod was a pointless answer. I also picked out Zaire as a pointless country Scotland played in World cup finals. I am so going to wipe those smug grins off Zander and Richards faces one day.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

10 hours ago, baw heid said:

 

As an aside how can Scotland play 2 very good left full backs out of position, ensuring neither play well and hope to attract back fans to the international games. I always feel that Queens fans and the Tartan Army are great away from home but  suffer to attract the extra support at home. To quote a well known song " It's a Mithtery"

Scotland generally get ridiculously good crowds for competitive games at home, despite the prices and the outcomes.

There's no real parallel here with Queens.

[baw heid]

2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Scotland generally get ridiculously good crowds for competitive games at home, despite the prices and the outcomes.

There's no real parallel here with Queens.

The point I make relates to the excellent support we get at away games and the great support given by the Tartan army away. I can not agree with your comments on the numbers who support the national team for home games, Belgium 20K and Albania 17K. Contrast that to 2014 when we had 4 home games England 50K, Republic 49K,Georgia 34K and even Gibraltar at 34K  when the nation started to believe we were progressing. After our latest show I dread to think what kind of crowd we get for the next home game.  Contrast that to Wales who now sell out games at Cardiff City and are now having to move to The National stadium to ensure every one can get a ticket. All because of the success they have had over the recent years and we could do the same but not with the present displays