The Very Meh Humza Yousaf Thread.

[GTG_03]

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

Whilst largely true they can raise additional income through income tax and council tax.

Middle earners and above already pay slightly more tax than in England, and the SNP just announced a Council Tax freeze for 2024/25.

Critiquing the SG's inability to control its finances is not as straightforward as blaming WM.

That's political suicide, and the only reason the Scottish government was 'given' these powers by Westminster. 

*Insert admiral ackbar 'its a trap' gif here

 

[Left Back]

26 minutes ago, GTG_03 said:

That's political suicide, and the only reason the Scottish government was 'given' these powers by Westminster. 

*Insert admiral ackbar 'its a trap' gif here

 

Really?

Surely if the public want better funded public services they have to be paid for?  If the public support the recent round of payrises then it was blindingly obvious that either tax would have to go up to pay for them or services would have to be cut.

What's the solution to avoid cuts if not through additional taxation?

[Leith Green]

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

It was inevitable that awarding payrises of the level that were being demanded (and, remember, championed by the public at large) would result in the reduction or removal of services elsewhere. Unlike private companies who could afford them by offseting them with increased prices, the public sector did so from a finite pot

Indeed, and I had to laugh at the Unison Secretary who stated " "It is absolutely unbelievable that the Scottish government are looking at job cuts in a position where we have right now in our public services where most of them are currently in crisis."

What I find "unbelievable" are union officials who - having screamed for pay rises - are now questioning why services might need to be cut to pay for those very pay rises.

What I would say is that service cuts are / will happen all across the UK, this is absolutely not something that will be confined to Scotland (see the local councils going "bust" in England as an example).

p.s. I say all this as a socialist whos dad was a union official and I am no fan of any "austerity measures" - as it always hits those struggling the most in society, but some of those representing workers live in cloud cuckoo land.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Left Back said:

Really?

Surely if the public want better funded public services they have to be paid for?  If the public support the recent round of payrises then it was blindingly obvious that either tax would have to go up to pay for them or services would have to be cut.

What's the solution to avoid cuts if not through additional taxation?

You could start by not cutting NI by 2% which is a reserved power.

[Todd_is_God]

13 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

You could start by not cutting NI by 2% which is a reserved power.

It surely better to start by focusing on what the SG can control rather than what they cannot?

"But WM" just isn't a viable long term argument.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said:

It surely better to start by focusing on what the SG can control rather than what they cannot?

"But WM" just isn't a viable long term argument.

How can they make informed spending decisions on anything without knowledge of what London is planning?

[Left Back]

19 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

You could start by not cutting NI by 2% which is a reserved power.

Nothing stopping the Scottish Government increasing income tax to offset that.  It's a political choice that can be made.  If it's what the public want then there will be no fallout.

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

How can they make informed spending decisions on anything without knowledge of what London is planning?

I'd argue that giving sizeable (unfunded) public sector payrises and then immediately freezing council tax for the following year was an already poor decision.

The SG have repeatedly shown they have poor control of finances - they can't keep blaming WM.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Maybe the Scottish government could spend money on things which arent a big f**k off waste of money? The cost of those ferrys would pay for thousands of nurses. 

[alta-pete]

25 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Maybe the Scottish government could spend money on things which arent a big f**k off waste of money? The cost of those ferrys would pay for thousands of nurses. 

And I see the Poileas are increasingly running about in electric VWs...

[Todd_is_God]

The SG have consistently looked to promise a more socialist level of living than our neighbours down South, but without taking the necessary steps required to sufficiently increase the public purse to do so. A higher level of public service, with higher wages for those employed to provide it, without significantly higher levels of taxation is an unsustainable utopia.

What we've now ended up with is a number of policies that sound good (thus increasing the political optics of the SNP) but which are often poorly, partially, or not implemented at all, and often at the expense of something else as well.

I was in Glasgow on Saturday and it shocked me somewhat at just how dirty and run down it looked. It was embarassing tbh.

The SG has, quite simply, failed to utilise the powers it does have to maintain the level of funding required to meet its optional projects alongside the required standard of its critical services to such an extent, and over such a prolonged period, that their only realistic option now is to hike taxes and risk plummeting in popularity, or continue as is and watch things get even worse.

Whilst you can (validly) argue this isn't entirely their own doing, it largely is.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Todd_is_God

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

1 hour ago, alta-pete said:

And I see the Poileas are increasingly running about in electric VWs...

To fit the decree by the scot government, even though they are shite and need charged more than they can be used. Years ago BMW approached the fleet team and offered to build a special 5 series which they’d trial for PS, to show other forces etc too, the Scottish government felt that it wasnt a good image to have the emergency services in BMWs on general patrols, so they went and bought Peugeots that were more expensive than the offer BMW made and were found to be wholly unsuitable for the task at hand (eventually decreed that you couldnt have more than 3 people in a 5 seater car etc). Essentially what im getting at is Public sector purchasing in Scotland is a fucking riot, it goes through the NHS and all the big spending departments, reduce waste and get better value is necessary, spend a little bit more for quality that lasts longer than the cheap option which will need replaced twice. 

[alta-pete]

I’ve taken the thread well o/t @Inanimate Carbon Rod but I agree with you 100%. But this nonsense must be starting somewhere near the top. 

[Florentine_Pogen]

37 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

I’ve taken the thread well o/t @Inanimate Carbon Rod but I agree with you 100%. But this nonsense must be starting somewhere near the top. 

I'm sure you're correct and am I allowed to to suggest, or even hint at the possibility that those making these big capital spend decisions, e.g. BMW v Peugeot, might be open to ..........err.............inducements  ?

[Blue Brazil Forever]

3 hours ago, Left Back said:

Nothing stopping the Scottish Government increasing income tax to offset that.  It's a political choice that can be made.  If it's what the public want then there will be no fallout.

Hands up, those members of the Scottish public who want to pay more income tax.

Hands up, those members of the public who will vote for the SNP/ Greens at the next elections.

[orfc]

51 minutes ago, Blue Brazil Forever said:

Hands up, those members of the Scottish public who want to pay more income tax.

Wave your can of tennents super, those members of the public who will vote for the SNP/ Greens at the next elections.

Many people already pay more income tax, mostly because the SNPs higher tax band cutoff is 7 grand less than in the rest of the uk

 

 

[Leith Green]

22 minutes ago, orfc said:

Many people already pay more income tax, mostly because the SNPs higher tax band cutoff is 7 grand less than in the rest of the uk

"Many"............well, yes thats one way to put it.

However over 50% of those who actually pay income tax in Scotland pay less tax than those who earn the same in rUK.

But, of course, you already knew that, didnt you?

[The Black Flag]

1 hour ago, Blue Brazil Forever said:

Hands up, those members of the Scottish public who want to pay more income tax.

Hands up, those members of the public who will vote for the SNP/ Greens at the next elections.

certainly no one here would be impressed by an economy ran like the finland model.

high taxes but a high standard of living in return.

that library in helsinki is something else.

[RH33]

5 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Maybe the Scottish government could spend money on things which arent a big f**k off waste of money? The cost of those ferrys would pay for thousands of nurses. 

The iPad bill would fund a teaching assistant for a year (rough pro rata calculations).

SNP need to toughen up and make decisions that are going to loose them votes, rather than chucking money about to win them. Sadly if you're in government long enough this happens.

Giving teachers 10% then opened the door to the lowest paid like teaching assistants and special needs assistants, rightly demanding more. 

I'm all for unions and think they play an important part in society but at end of the day public purse is limited.

[MazzyStar]

Humza will be on the buzzer to some obscure third sector organisation that’s entirely funded by the Scottish government and he’ll present their findings in due course.