Rapist sentenced to community service

[ICTChris]

The case of Sean Hogg has been in the media this week. Hogg was convicted of the rape of a 13 year old girl on multiple occasions between March and June 2018.  Hogg was 17 years old when the offences took place.  The controversy has resulted from the sentence - Hogg was sentenced to 270 hours of community service, was placed under supervision and ordered to sign the sex offenders register for three years.

The fact that someone has avoided prison for rape and that the victim is a 13 year old girl has caused widespread outrage.  Denise Clair, who brought a successful civil action against David Robertson and David Goodwillie for rape, said "[the sentence is] an embarrassment to the Scottish justice system and extremely deflating for victims.  Rape has the same devastating and lifelong impact regardless of the offenders age.  Where is the deterrent and what message does this send out? This is not justice". 

Campaigner Ellie Wilson, whose rapist was jailed last year, said "I think it is absolutely appalling, an insult.  All it is going to do is discourage victims and survivors from wanting to come forward.  I do not see how it is appropriate to hand down a community payback order for rape, there are some crimes - rape being one of them - which require adequate punishment, and that punishment can only be in prison."

The setence has widely been attributed to new guidelines for sentencing under 25s, which specify that the sentence must be "fair and proportionate" and take into account the level of culapbility and harm.  Primary regard must be given to rehabilitation.  Some have argued that the judge overstepped the mark with this sentence, others have said sentences like this are an inevitable outcome of these guidelines.  

What do P&Bers think of this case and the sentence? 

Edited April 6, 2023 by ICTChris

[ICTChris]

This is an interesting opinion piece about the sentencing guidelines and how we should use science and psychology in sentencing.  https://inews.co.uk/news/teenagers-brains-are-immature-but-thats-not-relevant-for-criminal-justice-2256939

Personally, I think we should put men who rape children in prison for a long time.

[scw1987]

Struggling to understand the "fair and proportionate" aspects of this sentence.

[itzdrk]

I think while the under 25 guidelines are generally a good thing there should surely be exceptions for violent crime (not fighting). 

As far as I was aware the courts aren't bound to just give community orders and still have the full range of sentencing available that an over 25 would have.  Absolutely awful from Lord Lake. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by itzdrk

[Ross.]

I can’t figure this one out. Is there something that hasn’t been mentioned in the media reports that is pertinent to the case and explains the sentence? From what I have read my opinion sways between “lock him up for life” and “cut it off”, and sometimes both.

[MEADOWXI]

Think the sentence is wrong and sometimes feel when new guidelines come in a Judge will throw out an extremely lenient or severe sentence to almost make a point they don't like being told what to do. He could have given a custodial sentence but almost seems to have said this is what the new guidelines allow me to do, bad isn't it, so stop trying to tell judges what to do.

Just lacks a common sense and common decency approach from the judge.

 

 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

13 minutes ago, MEADOWXI said:

Think the sentence is wrong and sometimes feel when new guidelines come in a Judge will throw out an extremely lenient or severe sentence to almost make a point they don't like being told what to do. He could have given a custodial sentence but almost seems to have said this is what the new guidelines allow me to do, bad isn't it, so stop trying to tell judges what to do.

Just lacks a common sense and common decency approach from the judge.

 

 

Has Willie Collum got a gig as a Judge? Absolutely smacks of a total LOOK AT ME decision

[RawB93]

17 minutes ago, MEADOWXI said:

He could have given a custodial sentence but almost seems to have said this is what the new guidelines allow me to do, bad isn't it, so stop trying to tell judges what to do.

Any judge found sentencing folk based on being in a wee strop should be out on their arse.

[Michael W]

The judge specifically told Hogg that he'd have jailed him if he was 25. That he interpreted the guidelines in the way he did is, quite frankly, alarming. 

We aren't dealing with an offence here that, whilst jailable, could potentially be argued that that the perpetrator has perhaps been a bit daft. Things like theft, certain motoring offences or perhaps even a relatively minor assault. This is a serious criminal offence which is also aggravated by the fact that it was committed against a child. 

It is indefensible. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Michael W

[highlandcowden]

Never be surprised by the courts;I recall a guy who plunged a bottle into a guys chest,killing him,getting a community order.the killer was already on a community order for bottling someone else

Wow betide anyone who's crimes affect a sheriff or judge,though

[Granny Danger]

I posted about this in the politics forum when he got sentenced.  The ‘sentencing guidelines’ are just that, guidelines; they are not mandatory.  There is no way that he should have escape a lengthy jail sentence.

[TxRover]

2 hours ago, ICTChris said:

Campaigner Ellie Wilson, whose rapist was jailed last year, said "I think it is absolutely appalling, an insult.  All it is going to do is discourage victims and survivors from wanting to come forward.  I do not see how it is appropriate to hand down a community payback order for rape, there are some crimes - rape being one of them - which require adequate punishment, and that punishment can only be in prison."

I have a wee bit of heartburn about this bit, but it IS NOT RELATED TO THIS CASE AS I CURRENTLY KNOW ANOUT IT. I can think of several cases where this might not be true, generally involving individuals growing up in an abusive environment and the use of a custodial sentence in other than a prison setting. If we are honest about rehabilitation with punishment vs straight punishment, we cannot go down the U.S. road of inflexible sentencing guidelines, massive prison populations and an unwillingness to recognize there are sometimes a reason to avoid an automatic prison sentence. The majority of prisoners learn very little in prison that can help them from reoffending when released. The majority of prisoners are from poor economic circumstances and questionable conditions. The majority of prisons are underfunded for their stated roles, and counterproductive to the idea they are supposed to punish and rehabilitate.

Having said that, and being very in favor of rehabilitation efforts, this sentence is abhorrent.

2 hours ago, ICTChris said:

This is an interesting opinion piece about the sentencing guidelines and how we should use science and psychology in sentencing.  https://inews.co.uk/news/teenagers-brains-are-immature-but-thats-not-relevant-for-criminal-justice-2256939

Personally, I think we should put men who rape children in prison for a long time.

I’d change that to “people” vs “men”, given there are a surprising number of women involved in some manner.

[mathematics]

Old enough to get married, fight for his country, or choose his gender. Not old enough to be accountable for being a rapist. 

[Mr. Brightside]

It is utterly confounding. Can the judge face any consequences for handing out such a nonsense decision?

[SlipperyP]

i take it he knows his movements, or societal service will be behind him all the the time

I like to brake his neck, I post from afar. 

I could post to do it ....pm

[ICTChris]

38 minutes ago, TxRover said:

I’d change that to “people” vs “men”, given there are a surprising number of women involved in some manner.

I'm willing to be corrected by the legal eagles but I'm fairly sure that in the UK rape is defined in such a way that only a man can commit the crime.  Appreciate you aren't in the UK, no idea what the laws are in Texas.  

[Michael W]

22 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

I'm willing to be corrected by the legal eagles but I'm fairly sure that in the UK rape is defined in such a way that only a man can commit the crime.  Appreciate you aren't in the UK, no idea what the laws are in Texas.  

This used to be the case but isn't anymore. In Scotland, it also used be "by a man on a woman" in definition, which only changed to acknowledge a male could be raped in the late 2000s or early 2010s. It was either the 2007 or 2011 Scottish Government that changed it. I think England and Wales' definition uses male pronouns, but that's because legislation used to be written using them, rather than excluding woman from committing the crime. 

However, in both the mechanics of the crime are such that you are unlikely to see many women charged with rape. It is possible, though. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Michael W

[RH33]

Rape is a devastating crime to suffer, said to be the most traumatic crime where the victim survives. 

The conviction rates are horrifically low and even to get it passed the PF to charge requires corroboration which is difficult. 

In my opinion he's therefore a nasty piece of work for it to get all the way to conviction. 

I hope the child has sufficient support around her, having gone through this and he walks out with community service is horrific.

 

[Molotov]

I really can’t get my head around this. 

This guy raped and sexually assaulted this girl on multiple occasions and gets community service? WTAF!

I’m not sure how I’d react as a parent of the girl concerned with that outcome. 

 

[Mr Waldo]

4 hours ago, TxRover said:

I’d change that to “people” vs “men”, given there are a surprising number of women involved in some manner.

It used to be the case because it involves penile penetration but because of the transgender debate, it has changed.