2023/24 New Season New Hope.

[An Absolute Imposter]

10 hours ago, DG.Roma said:

I absolutely would, if it wasn't clashing with Stranraer's playoff with EK. Gutted about the scheduling. I hope the attendance is significant, but I know some QoS, Annan and Carlisle fans who'll be travelling across to Stranraer. Some of these might've gone to Islecroft if it wasn't for the clash. 

It's not easy to schedule games like this to maximise potential attendances. Wouldn't have been an issue if Stranraer had not dropped off or indeed Clyde had stayed rubbish.  

I only attend Tier 6 and below, Don't know why, its just kind of happened.

Well at least Galloway is the focus of football for once.

Selfishly, don't really want Star to go up as have enjoyed watching them more this season.

Don't really have a preference for either Stranraer or EK,  sorry if that's anti-south. Honestly normally would want the Tier 5 club to progress; but it's EK and their circus, so can't decide.

 

[An Absolute Imposter]

Thought I would get thus up before this afternoons visit to the Islecroft.

As I've said, it's a totally irrelevant and completely personal review of what I've witnessed across the SOSFL. Only reason I do it is I love talking and debating this wonderful game. All views are my own, not claiming they are the right views. 

I have seen 11 of the 12 play across the season apart from a few months over the winter when it was not possible to get to any games for me.

It has been an enjoyable campaign on the whole and I feel the inclusion of Star has definitely been a plus for the league. As you would expect they were seen as the big boys in the league.

I do feel the overall standard of play is on the up; there is a willingness to play football out from the back and a reduction in long balls from what I've seen previously, which for a spectator makes games more enjoyable.

Definitely witnessing an improvement in the competitiveness of the teams in inter-regional cups, final results not there as yet, but as players get used to playing more different opponents results may improve.

Watched a good number of Lochar and Threave games at U20's. The exposure these young players are getting playing a range of different teams will only aid in their development.

How many development sides could the region realistically sustain in the future?

A pattern I see more clearly with each passing season, is the gap between the top half of the table and the bottom. This leads me onto my main issues with the SOSFL.

Having one division and 11 clubs, plus a reserve or b or whatever they are, is not a great recipe for improvement or development of clubs and players. Realistically there will never be more than 3, occasionally 4 clubs playing for the title. The rest are just there making up the numbers and trying not to finish bottom. 

This format can lead to a kind of stagnation and actually hinder any advancement of the clubs in our area.

Attending games in the EOSFL and WOSFL and witnessing how clubs are involved in promotion and relegation struggles, I do feel the extra edge that brings is missing in the SOSFL.

I know this isn't a popular stance; with the pyramid in the Lowland area now established is the time right for the SOSFL to take the lead and have open discussions with the other 2 leagues at Tier 6 about reconstruction and the future of football from Tier 6 down.

There is the definite possibility that the SOSFL becomes more ostracised and irrelevant in the structure as the 2 other leagues become fully established and stronger both onfield and off.

I am fully aware of the history of the League but honestly it's the clubs and their future that is important, if that future for some is better served in a west-wide league setup then so be it. Some clubs might prosper in a more regional south-west league feeding into this. 

Promotion and relegation does engender change, improvement and development.

Isn't that what a pyramid structure is, not this virtually linear line that we have in place just now. 

That's enough verbal diarrhoea from me for now, stuff to do before heading over to DB.

Look forward to any feedback.

Let's keep football in the south in the limelight.

 

[An Absolute Imposter]

Half time here at Islecroft

Star 1-2 Broxburn

Broxburn 2 up with 30 minsand cruising.

Star scored in last 5 mins with a beautiful strike think it was Potts will confirm later.

Broxburn went to sleep a bit for the goal, too easy at times.

Feel Broxburn might push on in 2nd half

[An Absolute Imposter]

Full time 4-1 Broxburn a 1nd half canter in the sun

Broxburn Young Team making friends with the locals.

[Clyde01]

5 hours ago, An Absolute Imposter said:

Full time 4-1 Broxburn a 1nd half canter in the sun

Broxburn Young Team making friends with the locals.

First visit to a SOS ground and Islecroft was glorious in the sun. Not sure it would be much fun on a cold wet day right enough.

Enjoyable game and cracking attendance, some goal from the Dalbeattie number 11.

[An Absolute Imposter]

Have time now to put pen to paper as it were.

Islecroft is certainly becoming the place to be to fritter away a few entertaining hours of an evening.

The bulk of the entertainment was provided by the group of travellers from that sleepy wee West Lothian village that has supplied this seasons EOSFL champions.

By the time I entered the old ground at 1445 the YT had commandeered the small stand that dominates the Islecroft. Already in good voice and in the process of leaving a lasting impression on the genteel folk of this particular sleepy hamlet as they made their way through the self-penned playlist.

I have to be honest; it was not a good impression left, the playlist ranged from.

'What a shitey home support' to 'Dalbeattie is a shitehole I want to go home'. There were others in the playlist, which being honest did nothing to placate the locals. I don't think any of the Broxburn Young Team will be getting an invite to any civic days or the like.

The match itself went the way I felt it would.

Broxburn were quicker of thought  quicker of movement, stronger in possession stronger out of possession.

Their defence dominated, their midfield dominated, their attack dominated. 

All 4 goals were to my eye fairly simple goals, all executed with aplomb. It was always apparent that Broxburn could have moved up a few levels if required and to the players credit an extremely professional display from minutes 1 to 90. 

Star played as good as I have seen this season, they played out from the goalkeeper and through the midfield but the magnificent goal and the few minutes either side of half time were never in the game as some would say.

 It was quite evident once again that for all the nice football on show from Star, there was a lack of the competitive edge that teams in the other pyramid leagues have in their dna.

The Star boys were 2nd best in the tackle, 2nd best to every ball, 2nd best in train of thought and movement.

The 2nd leg will take care of itself and the scoreline will be what it will be. 

Another season comes to an end and although I missed a few months, an enjoyable one on the whole. 

Bring on 2024-25. I for one cannot wait to see what it brings for the clubs in the SOSFL.

[newcastle broon]

Having watched "Norrie work " s YouTube film of the game I get the feeling Dalbeattie are happy where they are. The chairman kinda hinted that travelling in the LL was getting a bit much and they're happy where they're at now. 

[annan4eva]

54 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

Having watched "Norrie work " s YouTube film of the game I get the feeling Dalbeattie are happy where they are. The chairman kinda hinted that travelling in the LL was getting a bit much and they're happy where they're at now. 

It would be wise IMO for Dalbeattie to enjoy success in the SOS and improve/ grow as a club for the time being. Gretna i feel are in a similar position, i hope all their hard work creating youth teams at U17/20 ( BRILLIANT) will not overshadowed by the 1st getting a hiding every week.

[info]

The logistics for a south team playing in the Lowland league have been referred to here before and adding in the lack of big sponsorship I think it is prudent for clubs to at least give very hard consideration to moving up. The promised land of financial success is, if it ever was, a long way up the Scottish food chain. Enjoy the level of football you can financially sustain. It is not as if any one club has dominated this season. Roll on next season! 

[An Absolute Imposter]

4 hours ago, newcastle broon said:

Having watched "Norrie work " s YouTube film of the game I get the feeling Dalbeattie are happy where they are. The chairman kinda hinted that travelling in the LL was getting a bit much and they're happy where they're at now. 

The feeling I got as the season wore on was one of a renewed enjoyment of the game from folk at the Star. Revisiting some old haunts and renewing old acquaintances has its appeal. Winning games and being competitive helps the mood around any club.

I would say that Saturday's matchup with Broxburn and the return fixture this Friday will go a long way to cementing the acceptance of those at the Islecroft that they are better sticking with the SOSFL for now.

The age old problem any club away from the central belt has in attracting enough players of requisite quality to be able to challenge in Scottish Football is a constant struggle for clubs.

A perfect example of this is Threave Rovers' failed attempt to navigate their way from Div3 to Div2 in the WOSFL.

Edit: Add Kello Rovers, who are a D&G club, just being relegated to WOSFL Div 4 and have struggled all season player wise.

Edited May 20 by An Absolute Imposter

[An Absolute Imposter]

There are 18 clubs across the pyramid from a population circa 150,000 in D&G, add onto to this amateur clubs, Colts and youth clubs. It would suggest that the football playing fraternity in the area is pretty thinly spread.

There is of course players from outwith the county at some of the clubs; there will also be players who live in the county who ply their trade at outside clubs.

It is interesting to look at the spread of the clubs. 

In the Stewartry area there are 3 within 20 miles, Wigtonshire the same. Dumfries 3 if we count Vale, Annandale region 3, the border area 2 and North Galloway 2. Finally 2 in West Galloway, although both from Stranraer FC.

Looking at Stewartry and Wigtonshire, is there enough of a population to sustain 6 clubs plus Colts and youth team.

The SOSFL has lost some clubs in the last decade or so; Heston Rovers, Fleet Star are two I know of. Are there others?

Will some clubs have to demise to ensure the the county has viable clubs, not just in the SPFL but in the lower reaches of the pyramid?

I may be talking out my a**e of course, but I have spoken to committees throughout the season who are fighting a constant battle to keep a full team out there on matchdays.

In some cases shipping in, at some expense, players who are not always improving the team.

We will see what the future brings.

 

 

[MrFizz]

15 hours ago, An Absolute Imposter said:

There are 18 clubs across the pyramid from a population circa 150,000 in D&G, add onto to this amateur clubs, Colts and youth clubs. It would suggest that the football playing fraternity in the area is pretty thinly spread.

There is of course players from outwith the county at some of the clubs; there will also be players who live in the county who ply their trade at outside clubs.

It is interesting to look at the spread of the clubs. 

In the Stewartry area there are 3 within 20 miles, Wigtonshire the same. Dumfries 3 if we count Vale, Annandale region 3, the border area 2 and North Galloway 2. Finally 2 in West Galloway, although both from Stranraer FC.

Looking at Stewartry and Wigtonshire, is there enough of a population to sustain 6 clubs plus Colts and youth team.

The SOSFL has lost some clubs in the last decade or so; Heston Rovers, Fleet Star are two I know of. Are there others?

Will some clubs have to demise to ensure the the county has viable clubs, not just in the SPFL but in the lower reaches of the pyramid?

I may be talking out my a**e of course, but I have spoken to committees throughout the season who are fighting a constant battle to keep a full team out there on matchdays.

In some cases shipping in, at some expense, players who are not always improving the team.

We will see what the future brings.

 

 

I realise that there is history/pride at stake, as well as the pig-headedness of 'no regionalisation' at the SFA (lol - what are thd Lowland and Highland Leagues?).

But going by Dalbeattie realising that staying South maybe better, and Threave seemingly being comfortable at Div 3 level of the WoSFL, wouldn't it be time to literally draw a line? South of Ayr would be ideal. Slot the SoSFL en-masse to a WoSFL Div 3 South. Add Kello, Threave and Girvan making a 15-team division. Promoting a couple from existing Div 4 into 3 North to make the numbers up and add a couple more new applicants into Div 4.

The beaks who run SoSFL can run the two Div 3's and 4. Job done.

Edited May 21 by MrFizz

[An Absolute Imposter]

52 minutes ago, MrFizz said:

I realise that there is history/pride at stake, as well as the pig-headedness of 'no regionalisation' at the SFA (lol - what are thd Lowland and Highland Leagues?).

But going by Dalbeattie realising that staying South maybe better, and Threave seemingly being comfortable at Div 3 level of the WoSFL, wouldn't it be time to literally draw a line? South of Ayr would be ideal. Slot the SoSFL en-masse to a WoSFL Div 3 South. Add Kello, Threave and Girvan making a 15-team division. Promoting a couple from existing Div 4 into 3 North to make the numbers up and add a couple more new applicants into Div 4.

The beaks who run SoSFL can run the two Div 3's and 4. Job done.

Looking at the setup from the SOS perspective, I do feel for the development of clubs and players, this perceived attitude from the SOSFL that the way it is now is fine does not wash.

Do we as SOS fans continually want to witness our clubs being on the wrong end of drubbings. I would hope not.

Threave is a good example, since moving to the WOSFL, they have been the most successful south club in the SRCC and Scottish Cup.

I believe playing the same 12 clubs year in year out is a recipe for stagnation and impedes development.

There is a valid argument for further regionalisation below either tier 6 or 7, I have no knowledge of why the SFA are against it, maybe someone does.

Your idea of the SOSFL being in charge of regional tiers for say D&G and South Ayrshire below tier 6 is interesting. I tend not to get involved in hypothetical discussions; but the thought of regional leagues like SOSFL, North/South Central, Borders, Lothians etc is quite intriguing.

Taking the strain off the WOSFL and EOSFL is a way of opening up the pyramid for more clubs without adding the potential pressure's of travelling and dare I say it, increased facilities for new and young clubs.

It's an interesting debate but it appears nobody in authority has an inclination to take part in it.

Their only interest in opening up the pyramid is to accommodate the b teams.

I keep saying it; the PWG needs restarting. Everyone across the leagues appear to be keeping their respective heads down at the moment. Since the b teams bought their way in all discussions seem to have ceased.

[MrFizz]

35 minutes ago, An Absolute Imposter said:

Looking at the setup from the SOS perspective, I do feel for the development of clubs and players, this perceived attitude from the SOSFL that the way it is now is fine does not wash.

Do we as SOS fans continually want to witness our clubs being on the wrong end of drubbings. I would hope not.

Threave is a good example, since moving to the WOSFL, they have been the most successful south club in the SRCC and Scottish Cup.

I believe playing the same 12 clubs year in year out is a recipe for stagnation and impedes development.

There is a valid argument for further regionalisation below either tier 6 or 7, I have no knowledge of why the SFA are against it, maybe someone does.

Your idea of the SOSFL being in charge of regional tiers for say D&G and South Ayrshire below tier 6 is interesting. I tend not to get involved in hypothetical discussions; but the thought of regional leagues like SOSFL, North/South Central, Borders, Lothians etc is quite intriguing.

Taking the strain off the WOSFL and EOSFL is a way of opening up the pyramid for more clubs without adding the potential pressure's of travelling and dare I say it, increased facilities for new and young clubs.

It's an interesting debate but it appears nobody in authority has an inclination to take part in it.

Their only interest in opening up the pyramid is to accommodate the b teams.

I keep saying it; the PWG needs restarting. Everyone across the leagues appear to be keeping their respective heads down at the moment. Since the b teams bought their way in all discussions seem to have ceased.

There are some well-run and relatively ambitious clubs in the SoSFL. Newton Stewart, Creetown, Dalbeattie to name a few. But at the moment progressing from the SoSFL is akin to a climber getting to the top of Ben Nevis, and taking on Everest next. Bound to end in disaster. Better to take on a few of the Alps first.

[An Absolute Imposter]

1 hour ago, MrFizz said:

There are some well-run and relatively ambitious clubs in the SoSFL. Newton Stewart, Creetown, Dalbeattie to name a few. But at the moment progressing from the SoSFL is akin to a climber getting to the top of Ben Nevis, and taking on Everest next. Bound to end in disaster. Better to take on a few of the Alps first.

I travel round our clubs and seeing the development of some of the clubs is encouraging. Unfortunately not all clubs are moving in the right direction; there are those that are close to not being able to operate. New blood is needed on and off the pitch.

There are 3 Tier 6 leagues in the Lowland area results show the disparity there is. To me that is impairing any natural development of south clubs.

[annan4eva]

3 hours ago, An Absolute Imposter said:

Looking at the setup from the SOS perspective, I do feel for the development of clubs and players, this perceived attitude from the SOSFL that the way it is now is fine does not wash.

Do we as SOS fans continually want to witness our clubs being on the wrong end of drubbings. I would hope not.

Threave is a good example, since moving to the WOSFL, they have been the most successful south club in the SRCC and Scottish Cup.

I believe playing the same 12 clubs year in year out is a recipe for stagnation and impedes development.

There is a valid argument for further regionalisation below either tier 6 or 7, I have no knowledge of why the SFA are against it, maybe someone does.

Your idea of the SOSFL being in charge of regional tiers for say D&G and South Ayrshire below tier 6 is interesting. I tend not to get involved in hypothetical discussions; but the thought of regional leagues like SOSFL, North/South Central, Borders, Lothians etc is quite intriguing.

Taking the strain off the WOSFL and EOSFL is a way of opening up the pyramid for more clubs without adding the potential pressure's of travelling and dare I say it, increased facilities for new and young clubs.

It's an interesting debate but it appears nobody in authority has an inclination to take part in it.

Their only interest in opening up the pyramid is to accommodate the b teams.

I keep saying it; the PWG needs restarting. Everyone across the leagues appear to be keeping their respective heads down at the moment. Since the b teams bought their way in all discussions seem to have ceased.

Wow a PHD in rocket science is needed to follow this. Fact is change isn’t happening soon fact. Id start with Prem & championship as are regionalism north south 2x leagues of 16 playing each other home away. North v south final etc

[Sermani]

21 hours ago, An Absolute Imposter said:

There are 18 clubs across the pyramid from a population circa 150,000 in D&G, add onto to this amateur clubs, Colts and youth clubs. It would suggest that the football playing fraternity in the area is pretty thinly spread.

There is of course players from outwith the county at some of the clubs; there will also be players who live in the county who ply their trade at outside clubs.

It is interesting to look at the spread of the clubs. 

In the Stewartry area there are 3 within 20 miles, Wigtonshire the same. Dumfries 3 if we count Vale, Annandale region 3, the border area 2 and North Galloway 2. Finally 2 in West Galloway, although both from Stranraer FC.

Looking at Stewartry and Wigtonshire, is there enough of a population to sustain 6 clubs plus Colts and youth team.

The SOSFL has lost some clubs in the last decade or so; Heston Rovers, Fleet Star are two I know of. Are there others?

Will some clubs have to demise to ensure the the county has viable clubs, not just in the SPFL but in the lower reaches of the pyramid?

I may be talking out my a**e of course, but I have spoken to committees throughout the season who are fighting a constant battle to keep a full team out there on matchdays.

In some cases shipping in, at some expense, players who are not always improving the team.

We will see what the future brings.

 

 

The South League was never a big league going back in time. Mid seventies onward, basically in my life time,  it usually ran with about 10 or less teams.  There was a Stranraer reserve team, sometimes a QOS A team, Tarff Rovers-extinct, Annan Athletic-went upwards, Threave went sideyways, Girvan to Juniors. With the exception of Lincluden Swifts, who came seen conquered then disappeared there was never really any Dumfries teams. 

At the time there was a Wigtownshire sunday league, Stewartry amateur league which evolved into the Stewartry Sunday league, Dumfries Sunday League and Dumfries Saturday Amateurs. There also was a Dumfries mid week works league for a while. Some had 2 leagues. Lot of teams, a lot of players. All gone bar one.

Present day teams, Uppers, Mids, Nithsdale, Lochar, Lochmaben, Abbey Vale have all evolved from Sat/Sun/Youth leagues.  

There is just a complete void below the SOSFL.

The world has changed, D&G has changed. The Reasons are numerous

[MrFizz]

2 hours ago, Sermani said:

The South League was never a big league going back in time. Mid seventies onward, basically in my life time,  it usually ran with about 10 or less teams.  There was a Stranraer reserve team, sometimes a QOS A team, Tarff Rovers-extinct, Annan Athletic-went upwards, Threave went sideyways, Girvan to Juniors. With the exception of Lincluden Swifts, who came seen conquered then disappeared there was never really any Dumfries teams. 

At the time there was a Wigtownshire sunday league, Stewartry amateur league which evolved into the Stewartry Sunday league, Dumfries Sunday League and Dumfries Saturday Amateurs. There also was a Dumfries mid week works league for a while. Some had 2 leagues. Lot of teams, a lot of players. All gone bar one.

Present day teams, Uppers, Mids, Nithsdale, Lochar, Lochmaben, Abbey Vale have all evolved from Sat/Sun/Youth leagues.  

There is just a complete void below the SOSFL.

The world has changed, D&G has changed. The Reasons are numerous

I remember small  Wigtownshire villages like Glenluce, Dunragit and Lochans having teams in Sunday League/Amateurs. Not any more i guess.

[Bluenortherner]

5 hours ago, Sermani said:

The South League was never a big league going back in time. Mid seventies onward, basically in my life time,  it usually ran with about 10 or less teams.  There was a Stranraer reserve team, sometimes a QOS A team, Tarff Rovers-extinct, Annan Athletic-went upwards, Threave went sideyways, Girvan to Juniors. With the exception of Lincluden Swifts, who came seen conquered then disappeared there was never really any Dumfries teams. 

At the time there was a Wigtownshire sunday league, Stewartry amateur league which evolved into the Stewartry Sunday league, Dumfries Sunday League and Dumfries Saturday Amateurs. There also was a Dumfries mid week works league for a while. Some had 2 leagues. Lot of teams, a lot of players. All gone bar one.

Present day teams, Uppers, Mids, Nithsdale, Lochar, Lochmaben, Abbey Vale have all evolved from Sat/Sun/Youth leagues.  

There is just a complete void below the SOSFL.

The world has changed, D&G has changed. The Reasons are numerous

Queen of the South’s record victory is against the now defunct Whithorn in the Scottish Cup.

[AML67]

On 20/05/2024 at 20:26, An Absolute Imposter said:

There are 18 clubs across the pyramid from a population circa 150,000 in D&G, add onto to this amateur clubs, Colts and youth clubs. It would suggest that the football playing fraternity in the area is pretty thinly spread.

There is of course players from outwith the county at some of the clubs; there will also be players who live in the county who ply their trade at outside clubs.

It is interesting to look at the spread of the clubs. 

In the Stewartry area there are 3 within 20 miles, Wigtonshire the same. Dumfries 3 if we count Vale, Annandale region 3, the border area 2 and North Galloway 2. Finally 2 in West Galloway, although both from Stranraer FC.

Looking at Stewartry and Wigtonshire, is there enough of a population to sustain 6 clubs plus Colts and youth team.

The SOSFL has lost some clubs in the last decade or so; Heston Rovers, Fleet Star are two I know of. Are there others?

Will some clubs have to demise to ensure the the county has viable clubs, not just in the SPFL but in the lower reaches of the pyramid?

I may be talking out my a**e of course, but I have spoken to committees throughout the season who are fighting a constant battle to keep a full team out there on matchdays.

In some cases shipping in, at some expense, players who are not always improving the team.

We will see what the future brings.

 

 

Dumfries YMCA and Annan U18s were both in the SOSFL , the former for around 3 or 4 seasons and the latter just one I believe. There will be no new applicants this year either so it is what it is for now I’m afraid !

I have mentioned sustainability several times in connection with South teams desperately trying to win the League by using finance as their only real competitive leverage rather than bring players through but ultimately that model will fail as it did at the likes of Tarff back in the day. We all know Pyramid play off success is to say the least highly unlikely unless neither the West or East produce licensed winners .

From our own point of view we will continue to promote youth players and hopefully filter them into a team that is already performing fairly successfully against opponents that choose to go down that other familiar old road . 
 

Looking forward to next season already and we will see where that takes us all although I still feel that some form of amalgamation with the West isn’t as far away on the horizon as some would believe ! Clubs need to  live within their means but be ready when the times comes to embrace these new challenges as Threave have already done. I for one look forward to that day if it ultimately transpires that this will be the future for the South.