Titanic II

[Miguel Sanchez]

17 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

I remember on the Sarah Everard thread some posters arguing vociferously that rich white people don't get disproportionately more media coverage than poorer people and those from non white backgrounds.

This case surely puts that debate to rest.

Sad for the individuals and their families but they voluntarily undertook an incredibly dangerous activity. It's objectively less tragic than any migrant boat death (of which there are far more).

For the same reason, rich guys dying in helicopter crashes is less tragic than ordinary people dying in car crashes (or moped or whatever). Their wealth bought them something more convenient but riskier, and they chose that risk.

40% of the submarine was of Pakistani origin.

[Satoshi]

14 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

This isn’t getting coverage because those in the sub are rich or white.

This is getting coverage because getting obliterated in a submarine implosion whilst undertaking a bit of ghoulish dark tourism, is incredibly unusual. 

The only way to engage in this type of activity is to be rich.

There are subs used for cocaine smuggling. Im sure some of them have imploded, been discovered, and nobody really cares.

4 minutes ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

40% of the submarine was of Pakistani origin.

And incredibly wealthy, and adjacent to rich white people.

A boat with hundreds of poor migrants going missing gets far less coverage and recovery resources. If you don't believe this you're a bit naive.

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

The only way to engage in this type of activity is to be rich.

There are subs used for cocaine smuggling. Im sure some of them have imploded, been discovered, and nobody really cares.

And incredibly wealthy, and adjacent to rich white people.

A boat with hundreds of poor migrants going missing gets far less coverage and recovery resources. If you don't believe this you're a bit naive.

I don't think the coke ones go 4000m deep.

[GordonD]

2 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

I don't think the coke ones go 4000m deep.

Not through choice.

[coprolite]

1 minute ago, Satoshi said:

The only way to engage in this type of activity is to be rich.

There are subs used for cocaine smuggling. Im sure some of them have imploded, been discovered, and nobody really cares.

And incredibly wealthy, and adjacent to rich white people.

A boat with hundreds of poor migrants going missing gets far less coverage and recovery resources. If you don't believe this you're a bit naive.

It seems obvious that more stories in a globally wealthy and predominantly white country are going to be more often about people who are richer and whiter than the global average. 

I'd expect a story about the Scotland football team the day after a match rather than an in depth analysis of the dubious penalty in Gabon v Mali. 

Two main mechanisms explain this. 

Audience preferences. We relate to people who are like us, or like what we aspire to be. 

Editorial selection. As above except with a more elitist streak due to "people like them" being ex private school, oxbridge, home counties bellends. 

So while i kind of agree with what you're saying, i'm not sure what your point is. 

[Newbornbairn]

55 minutes ago, Ross. said:

Given what’s transpired, the ones who went down and came back up now have a somewhat better value for money story to bore their chums with.

However, they didn't get the full Titanic experience like those 4 did. 

[Satoshi]

Just now, coprolite said:

It seems obvious that more stories in a globally wealthy and predominantly white country are going to be more often about people who are richer and whiter than the global average. 

I'd expect a story about the Scotland football team the day after a match rather than an in depth analysis of the dubious penalty in Gabon v Mali. 

Two main mechanisms explain this. 

Audience preferences. We relate to people who are like us, or like what we aspire to be. 

Editorial selection. As above except with a more elitist streak due to "people like them" being ex private school, oxbridge, home counties bellends. 

So while i kind of agree with what you're saying, i'm not sure what your point is. 

You're correct, and my point is that the only way to combat it, or improve it, is to keep pointing it out.

And there's loads of evidence it's not based on proximity, any sort of incident in Australia or New Zealand gets far more attention than an equivalent incident in much closer countries like Morocco or Albania or Belarus. Rich white people sympathise with rich white people.

It happens in this country too, poor people will usually get far less coverage than someone middle class and newspaper worthy.

Keep pointing it out, maybe eventually it will get better. And in the meantime, people who have never thought about it before might start.

[Bairnardo]

Quite mental the wife of Stockton Rush had great grandparents who died on Titanic, seemingly inspiring the scene where the two auld yins lay down in bed together as the water rose up around them in the movie, and were also fabulously wealthy. 

[GordonD]

9 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Quite mental the wife of Stockton Rush had great grandparents who died on Titanic, seemingly inspiring the scene where the two auld yins lay down in bed together as the water rose up around them in the movie, and were also fabulously wealthy. 

The Strauses, co-owners of Macy's department store in New York. Apparently because he was so rich old, they were going to let him into a lifeboat containing women and children but he refused to go ahead of the other men. His wife refused to go without him, which is why they remained aboard.

[Blue Brazil Forever]

26 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

 

There are subs used for cocaine smuggling. Im sure some of them have imploded, been discovered

 

 

Yes, Pour encourager les autres. A useful deterrent.

[coprolite]

15 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

You're correct, and my point is that the only way to combat it, or improve it, is to keep pointing it out.

And there's loads of evidence it's not based on proximity, any sort of incident in Australia or New Zealand gets far more attention than an equivalent incident in much closer countries like Morocco or Albania or Belarus. Rich white people sympathise with rich white people.

It happens in this country too, poor people will usually get far less coverage than someone middle class and newspaper worthy.

Keep pointing it out, maybe eventually it will get better. And in the meantime, people who have never thought about it before might start.

Fair point. 

I don't think that this story that's got so many attention grabbing angles is a great comparison for the migrant boat sinking though. 

[Jambomo]

30 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

The only way to engage in this type of activity is to be rich.

There are subs used for cocaine smuggling. Im sure some of them have imploded, been discovered, and nobody really cares.

And incredibly wealthy, and adjacent to rich white people.

A boat with hundreds of poor migrants going missing gets far less coverage and recovery resources. If you don't believe this you're a bit naive.

Yes they had to be rich to be on the sub, but it’s not the case that it’s the reason this is being covered. It’s an extraordinary event and an odd way to die.

I think it’s pretty obvious why cocaine subs or migrants aren’t getting coverage. It’s not really richness or whiteness, it’s a lot more to with criminal activity and our awful government policies on migrants.

 

[Satoshi]

37 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

I don't think the coke ones go 4000m deep.

I'm not supposed to say.

8 minutes ago, coprolite said:

Fair point. 

I don't think that this story that's got so many attention grabbing angles is a great comparison for the migrant boat sinking though. 

Possibly, I just don't find it a particularly interesting story (and I am diver who has been to many shipwrecks just not from a sub because that sounds mental).

6 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

Yes they had to be rich to be on the sub, but it’s not the case that it’s the reason this is being covered. It’s an extraordinary event and an odd way to die.

I think it’s pretty obvious why cocaine subs or migrants aren’t getting coverage. It’s not really richness or whiteness, it’s a lot more to with criminal activity and our awful government policies on migrants.

 

Do you think this story would get exactly the same amount of coverage if it was a group of super rich Indonesians on board?

[highlandmac]

1 hour ago, Satoshi said:

I remember on the Sarah Everard thread some posters arguing vociferously that rich white people don't get disproportionately more media coverage than poorer people and those from non white backgrounds.

This case surely puts that debate to rest.

Sad for the individuals and their families but they voluntarily undertook an incredibly dangerous activity. It's objectively less tragic than any migrant boat death (of which there are far more).

For the same reason, rich guys dying in helicopter crashes is less tragic than ordinary people dying in car crashes (or moped or whatever). Their wealth bought them something more convenient but riskier, and they chose that risk.

 

59 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

This isn’t getting coverage because those in the sub are rich or white.

This is getting coverage because getting obliterated in a submarine implosion whilst undertaking a bit of ghoulish dark tourism, is incredibly unusual. 

Each half right imo

[Jambomo]

18 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

Do you think this story would get exactly the same amount of coverage if it was a group of super rich Indonesians on board?

Yes. Do you remember the rescues of the Thai boys from the cave? Weird and unusual things get news coverage. 

I am not saying that in some cases there isn’t disproportionate coverage for white and/or rich people in some areas, for example the Madeline McCann story had more than many missing kids.

Just in this case I think it’s wrong to link them because I think the focus of this story is the event and the negligence of the CEO, not the people on board. 

 

[Cheese]

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

On 23/06/2023 at 07:46, PaddyCapri said:

Some really low posts on this thread.

We're talking about human beings here.

How low? 19,000 feet?

20 hours ago, GordonD said:

QI repeat on Dave tonight had a round about a really crappy British submarine from the First World War.

Then later on they got the contestants to karate chop a length of wood, with a big sheet of paper holding the other end down because of air pressure.

Somebody not paying attention...

I doubt billionaires watch dave.

[ClydeTon]

32 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

 

I doubt billionaires watch dave.

Certainly not these ones, anyway.

[Soapy FFC]

Random fact, not really to do with the Titan but interesting. Beaked whales dive to 2000m several times a day to hunt. The deepest recorded dive was 2992m. They can also stay under water for hours, almost 4 hours being the longest recorded. 

[Nae Union]

3 hours ago, Satoshi said:

I'm not supposed to say.

Possibly, I just don't find it a particularly interesting story (and I am diver who has been to many shipwrecks just not from a sub because that sounds mental).

Do you think this story would get exactly the same amount of coverage if it was a group of super rich Indonesians on board?

Or Chilean miners?