Guest Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 9 hours ago, TxRover said: You are mixing up violence and physical violence. Violence need not be physical to be violence...mental abuse/violence immediately comes to mind. Agree completely; have been trying to highlight the difference between 'sexual violence' and physical violence. 2 completely different stages of the violence spectrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 8 hours ago, Donathan said: I'm not talking about the Goodwillie case in particular. General terms. Man and women are both drinking heavily in a nightclub. They meet and end up going home together and having "consensual" sex, albeit neither can technically consent due to having a BAC of 275 like Goodwillie's victim has. Has the man in this situation committed rape? David talks in his interview with English about what he saw before him that night and was able to recollect events so by his own admission he was of clear mind. Numerous sober people saw the girl absolutely hammered that night, one woman who worked there thought she needed an ambulance before being reassured she was being taken home by a “friend”. The people who saw her in the morning after said she was disoriented and were concerned for her well-being. If you’re ever in a pub or club and get refused booze, get spoken to about your sobriety or get thrown out it’s because you are clearly hammered and are a danger to yourself. It happens every weekend in every city and all of us have either been there ourselves or had to carry a drunken friend home after they’ve had too many and in no situation ever does that drunken person go on to have consensual sex, they get put to bed and conk out for a few hours and wake up with various feelings of shame and regret and in some situations pish themselves. Also at the risk of sounding chauvinistic, women who don’t drink very often are lightweights so that much alcohol in a young lady is going to see them utterly hammered. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 9 hours ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said: The argument that people would be accepting of David Goodwillie playing for their club had he shown remorse and undergone rehabilitation is very fucking weird. There’s absolutely zero chance I’d be going along to McDiarmid to cheer on a rapist if we signed him. We don’t want a rapist playing for our clubs, it’s absolutely fine to just say this. There’s no need to go ‘oh well you know if he’d served his time and shown how sorry he was for raping then I’d love to watch him score a goal’. Bizarre. I feel each offender needs to be treated individually. The first stage is acceptance and admittance of what they have done. From there there are different parts that can be travelled. A massive problem with a sex offender is; they may understand what they have done and it's effect on others. It does not automatically follow that they can or even want to be rehabilitated. There is no one fit solution. footnote: apart from maybe castration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 1 minute ago, Bert Raccoon said: Both defendants have provided a detailed account of their version of what happened, the victim can't remember a thing. This would clearly indicate they knew what they were doing however the victim was clearly in no fit state to consent The judge said he found them both unreliable - everything that suited them they could remember in detail but things that didn't suit them they claimed to be too drunk or to be unable to recall. The blood alcohol level in the victim was calculated (by experts in this field) as 275mg/DL. Here is a chart detailing the general affects of that level of intoxication. Obviously this can vary from person to person, depending on their physical attributes and exposure to alcohol. So a 6'6" 20 stone male who drinks to excess every weekend will be less affected than a 5'5" 8 stone person who never drinks. Women are more affected by alcohol than men generally. The victim in this case is a slim woman who was not a regular drinker - she would likely be on the upper end of the intoxication scale for this level of alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 If any Bankies fans personally know passbackdave please educate him. Some of his posts on this topic are concerning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 20 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: If I remember right they never took her to anyone's home. It was the flat of someone the two guys knew. Not sure why that was the part which stuck out in my post for you but have changed it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonksy+HisChristianParade Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 12 minutes ago, HorseyGhirl said: I feel each offender needs to be treated individually. The first stage is acceptance and admittance of what they have done. From there there are different parts that can be travelled. A massive problem with a sex offender is; they may understand what they have done and it's effect on others. It does not automatically follow that they can or even want to be rehabilitated. There is no one fit solution. footnote: apart from maybe castration. No, I wouldn’t be comfortable for any rapist turning out for St Johnstone. Similarly I wouldn’t want to cheer on a remorseful paedo. These crimes are different, those convicted of them are treated differently (e.g. in prison). 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 The semantics of this assault and any sexual assault can be discussed until doomsday. The important point is; unless all parties involved give 100% unequivocal, free willed consent to participate in any sexual act, it ends there and then. It is as simple and black and white as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 5 minutes ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said: No, I wouldn’t be comfortable for any rapist turning out for St Johnstone. Similarly I wouldn’t want to cheer on a remorseful paedo. These crimes are different, those convicted of them are treated differently (e.g. in prison). They are different; as some will testify I have a tendency to go on and on. So trying to keep my posts concise. Correct even after rehabilitation a sex offender cannot be completely immersed back into society. By that I mean; there still needs to be constraints on where they work, live and such. I have stated a few times that the rights of any woman who would be in his workspace supersedes his rights i.e. the many female physios at clubs. A lifelong supervision is required as unfortunately there are very few cases of sex offenders not re-offending without outside assistance and supervision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 I'll ask again when are the WOSFL going to speak out about this. The league has a duty of care to all female employees of all the clubs in the WOS. Duty of care includes their mental and emotional well-being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peil Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 16 hours ago, Plantar fasciitis said: Read the statements she at no time says she was forced, she says she doesn't remember, huge huge difference Holy f**k, what a line 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 10 hours ago, passbackdave said: In a civil court. He was proven not guilty in a crown court. U like me don't know 100% what happened so freedom of speech my friend. Have a good day Mon the papers No he wasn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MacLean Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: We dont have crown courts in Scotland. But the court of session where the civil trial was heard is the highest court in the land (with the exception of the supreme court (uk)) and presided over by the same judges who hear murder trials. These are some of the greatest minds in our justice system and the level of scrutiny and consideration given in this trial in particular is impressive. Please read the judgement in full, there are so many holes in DG’s side of this, the only clear coherent story and independent evidence supports the victims version. Also worth noting, Goodwillie had his appeal rejected, unanimously, by three appeal judges. This was no arbitrary, 'he said, she said', judgement. Edited July 24, 2023 by John MacLean 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 10 hours ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said: The argument that people would be accepting of David Goodwillie playing for their club had he shown remorse and undergone rehabilitation is very fucking weird. There’s absolutely zero chance I’d be going along to McDiarmid to cheer on a rapist if we signed him. We don’t want a rapist playing for our clubs, it’s absolutely fine to just say this. There’s no need to go ‘oh well you know if he’d served his time and shown how sorry he was for raping then I’d love to watch him score a goal’. Bizarre. I think the point around rehabilitation is that it would have helped his own situation in the court of public opinion enormously to show a degree of remorse etc. The flip side is that he has basically retreated into mewing self pity and in doing so has made it impossible for any fair minded person to give him the benefit of the doubt. Now he appears to be nothing more than a poster boy for misogynistic losers. I personally wouldn't want my own club to have anything to do with him regardless of any of the above btw. I think you basically forfeit your right to be in the position of influence a football player enjoys when you do what he did regardless of remorse. It's just too great a risk imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 They didn’t stop at not taking her to her mothers house - they took her to a building she didn’t know and abandoned her there in the small hours. Who does that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonksy+HisChristianParade Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, Shanner said: I think the point around rehabilitation is that it would have helped his own situation in the court of public opinion enormously to show a degree of remorse etc. The flip side is that he has basically retreated into mewing self pity and in doing so has made it impossible for any fair minded person to give him the benefit of the doubt. Now he appears to be nothing more than a poster boy for misogynistic losers. I personally wouldn't want my own club to have anything to do with him regardless of any of the above btw. I think you basically forfeit your right to be in the position of influence a football player enjoys when you do what he did regardless of remorse. It's just too great a risk imo. Nah don’t agree with that at all. A convicted, yet remorseful rapist would not garner any greater public support to get back into football - certainly not to an ‘enormous’ extent. IMO the only reason clubs have continued to even sign him is that he doesn’t have a conviction for it and denies culpability. I don’t think many members of the public will be giving him ‘the benefit of the doubt’ regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonD Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 1 hour ago, HorseyGhirl said: If any Bankies fans personally know passbackdave please educate him. Some of his posts on this topic are concerning. He seems so intent on defending the rapist that I'm half convinced it's Goodwillie himself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 1 minute ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said: Nah don’t agree with that at all. A convicted, yet remorseful rapist would not garner any greater public support to get back into football - certainly not to an ‘enormous’ extent. IMO the only reason clubs have continued to even sign him is that he doesn’t have a conviction for it and denies culpability. I don’t think many members of the public will be giving him ‘the benefit of the doubt’ regardless. If you were to project the numbers on this thread trying to make an argument for him onto wider society you'd have an alarming number of people who are more than happy to let him continue to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 Are there any examples of a publicly contrite rapist? Genuinely can't think of anyone who has said "Yes I raped her and I'm sorry". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 6 minutes ago, GordonD said: He seems so intent on defending the rapist that I'm half convinced it's Goodwillie himself. It’s Barry Bannan imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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