Butters Scotch Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 1 hour ago, The Moonster said: It's a defection if you completely ignore the meaning of the word defection, yes. He played for England at U15 and has played for both Scotland and England at U21. It's pretty common for players with dual nationalities to play for both at levels that don't tie them down. Hackney hasn't abandoned Scotland by playing for England U21s. I don't get why we don't just play these guys in the national team against minnows like Gilbratar or in dead rubber games to tie them down, the upside far outweighs the downside! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 1 minute ago, Butters Scotch said: I don't get why we don't just play these guys in the national team against minnows like Gilbratar or in dead rubber games to tie them down, the upside far outweighs the downside! It's a good theory aside from the fact players can still defect to other nations after playing for us (see Declan Rice) and it requires the player to agree to the call up in the first place, which may not happen if they are still deciding who to play for. Waiting to see if a player is (a) good enough and (b) interested in playing for us is by far the best option here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 27 minutes ago, The Moonster said: It's a good theory aside from the fact players can still defect to other nations after playing for us (see Declan Rice) and it requires the player to agree to the call up in the first place, which may not happen if they are still deciding who to play for. Waiting to see if a player is (a) good enough and (b) interested in playing for us is by far the best option here. Declan Rice played three friendly games, not in any qualifiers. He is actually a good example to use as he played through all their youth teams and if Ireland got him playing qualifiers before England got in his ear then he wouldn't been able to defect. Imagine if someone like Doak had dual nationality then there would of been public outcry at why he hasn't be capped in qualifiers by now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 5 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said: Declan Rice played three friendly games, not in any qualifiers. He is actually a good example to use as he played through all their youth teams and if Ireland got him playing qualifiers before England got in his ear then he wouldn't been able to defect. Imagine if someone like Doak had dual nationality then there would of been public outcry at why he hasn't be capped in qualifiers by now. I thought Rice had played in a WC qualifier but happy to be corrected. The point stands, if a player really would much rather play for England then I don't see the point in calling them up, Clarke seems to share that view and I'm quite happy with that. If they want to play for us and they're good enough, in ye come. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, Butters Scotch said: I don't get why we don't just play these guys in the national team against minnows like Gilbratar or in dead rubber games to tie them down, the upside far outweighs the downside! Because they'd probably say no if they haven't decided yet. Calling them up doesn't force them to actually accept, and if they say no then that does more harm long term to the chances of them picking us than just letting them decide when they're ready. Edited April 20 by RandomGuy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 34 minutes ago, The Moonster said: I thought Rice had played in a WC qualifier but happy to be corrected. The point stands, if a player really would much rather play for England then I don't see the point in calling them up, Clarke seems to share that view and I'm quite happy with that. If they want to play for us and they're good enough, in ye come. I don't disagree - if they want to play for England then let them and don't bother chasing them to come into the Scotland fold. My main point is that we should be canny enough to get these players playing for us early before another national team comes calling - especially if they're playing throughout youth teams. It seems to be a lot more common now that you get a number of national teams all vying for the one player if he's any good and our scouting network should be working as hard as possible to win these players over to benefit our national team. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted April 20 Author Share Posted April 20 It takes two to tango. You can't hoodwink, coerce or manipulate players into being tied down for a National Team. Yes, fine put your best foot forward and all of that, but at the end of the day it's always the player that makes the choice probably in consultation with their agent and family members - all you can do is ask the question, make your case and accept their answer. Does playing in our underage teams make a difference to that final decision from the player? Not sure, I don't have a fixed view on that - but at the moments I'd lean toward saying no. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketheheadlesschicken Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Problemo Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 I had seen during the week that on average countries miss out on two players from their squad at major tournaments - given the comments on Armstrong it sounds like we are now on to three, with fingers crossed for Hickey. Our attacking midfield depth is basically now completely gone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedingums Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 That's a real bugger. Feel bad for Armstrong and he's been a consistent impact off the bench for us in recent times. The universe seems to be conspiring towards this low effort photoshop job: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS_FFC Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Time for Ryan Fraser to stand up and be counted for club and country 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 9 hours ago, The Moonster said: My dictionary spells dictionary correctly for a start. If defecting means to abandon a country then you can't go back. If you have another definition of defecting I'm all ears. Touche. You can have the spelling error. Its perfectly acceptable use of the word defection though, and it's perfectly possible to defect and then defect back. Spies have been doing it for years. This is a bizarre hill for you to die on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Staggie Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Christ, can we ask all clubs/managers to simply drop all Scottish players? If we keep playing for the next three weeks we could be in the words of BBC shite journo "Down to the bare bones" so as it stands assuming none make it we are now without Ferguson, Patterson, Hickey, Armstrong, Jack and possibly waiting on Hanley so the certs of the squad is down by six which would take our 23 to just 18, Fu@k me SSC must be in a dark room just now with a witch doctor, physio and healer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 On 19/04/2024 at 18:48, BroraBoy said: Harrison Ashby I have heard of!! A very promising prospect whilst at West Ham…….. He has also played for the Scotland U21’s alongside Hayden Hackney, Hackney has defected to Engerland but Ashby is injured like you say! But I think he has recovered from injury ( hamstring of all things ) But his selection would be a bit left field, there would be more chance of Aliens landing on planet Earth than Steve Clarke doing something as radical as this Steve Clarke has picked loads of "left-field" players (Dykes, Adams, Brown, Hendry etc). However picking a 22 year-old with 23 senior games under his belt, who hasn't kicked a ball since January, and who has displayed zero evidence of actually being good is less "left-field" and more "wildly risky". Feels a bit like when Donald Love played a couple of games for Man Utd and folk decided he must be good. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted April 20 Author Share Posted April 20 1 hour ago, Super Staggie said: Fu@k me SSC must be in a dark room just now with a witch doctor, physio and healer. He's also got Ryan Gauld, Ryan Fraser and SOD's in there with him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 16 hours ago, JS_FFC said: Time for Ryan Fraser to stand up and be counted for club and country He’s just not very tall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro Sham Bo Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 McTominay away off injured now... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro Sham Bo Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68861708 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 Russell Martin coming across as a right good c**t there. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 Thought he was generally a decent player for us in what was not the best era of Scotland teams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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