Harvey Barnes

[Self-raising Lazarus]

I genuinely don't think we need him, and it would be unfair on Nisbet and shankland who haven't really had many opportunities to impress in a scotland shirt. That said, if Clarke thinks he's worth a look, fine by me. 

Does anyone else think this might be a knock on from the elliot Anderson situation? He pulls out, and another forward suddenly becomes open to playing.

[Self-raising Lazarus]

3 hours ago, velo army said:

Fair enough question and you're right that it is all speculation, but I do think your insistence that there is "no way" we can know how someone feels about something is fallacious. Behaviour is and always will be the best indicator of how someone feels about something. Harvey Barnes' availability has been known for a while and he hasn't made any steps towards our national team set-up. We can draw conclusions from this. 

The difference between parent and grandparent. Our parents are our main primers for behaviours and attitudes. The best predictor for how we turn out is how our parents engage with us and the wider world. The obvious difference is when we are brought up by our grandparents, but that's rare. Growing up in England with a Scottish parent, the chances are that you'll have a set of scottish grandparents too, as well as an uncle or aunt or two. There are high chances that you'll go and visit Scotland and create a connection with the specific place that they live. Having a Scottish parent leaves you in no doubt that you're a child of two places and you'll also get those messages from childhood onwards, both from within and without your family. 

Our psychological survival apparatus conditions us to tie our identity with those of our parents (and then later the larger tribe) which is why I'm completely at ease with international eligibility being determined by parental link. I will always be a bit uneasy about the grandparent rule, but I do concede that Adams has confounded my previous scepticism surrounding his commitment. 

E.T.A. I just read @No_Problemo's post above and I didn't realise Barnes had two Scottish grandparents. 

Not football related, but listen to the interview Sione Tuipuloto did with Tom English, it was clear in that discussion his granny had a sizeable impact on his life, and representing her as he put it, was very important to him. So I think it's dependent on each person and their upbringing.

[Crawford Bridge]

3 minutes ago, Self-raising Lazarus said:

I genuinely don't think we need him, and it would be unfair on Nisbet and shankland who haven't really had many opportunities to impress in a scotland shirt. That said, if Clarke thinks he's worth a look, fine by me. 

Does anyone else think this might be a knock on from the elliot Anderson situation? He pulls out, and another forward suddenly becomes open to playing.

"Unfair". It's international football, not a social club. 

Nisbet and Shankpen aren't good enough, simple as that. 

[Estragon]

Just now, Crawford Bridge said:

"Unfair". It's international football, not a social club. 

Nisbet and Shankpen aren't good enough, simple as that. 

Exactly this. Its not a queue system, these two are good squad players but won't be starters unless something dramatic changes.

If Barnes improves the squad he's in.

[Ludo*1]

Barnes is better than anything we have on the wing right now. It's irrelevant that we don't play with wingers in our current system because we need to be adaptable and who's to say we won't play with wingers in the next 3-4 years? Who's to say he can't play just off the striker? He's absolutely quality and it's an indictment on Southgate's selections that he hasn't been in the England squad more. He'd be a huge coup for us.

Get him in!

[No_Problemo]

2 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Barnes is better than anything we have on the wing right now. It's irrelevant that we don't play with wingers in our current system because we need to be adaptable and who's to say we won't play with wingers in the next 3-4 years? Who's to say he can't play just off the striker? He's absolutely quality and it's an indictment on Southgate's selections that he hasn't been in the England squad more. He'd be a huge coup for us.

Get him in!

Yeah, taking away everything else - exactly this. 

Without trying to jinx it, any injury in our advanced midfield areas and we are then back to relying on Christie and Armstrong - as much as I like both of them, Barnes is absolutely miles in front as well as being a potentially game changing sub option. 

[RandomGuy.]

Barnes hit double figures in the EPL last season and is playing in the Champions League this season.

Refusing to call him up because you might upset Shankland or Nisbet, who'll never get near those levels, is a bit mad.

[Jambomo]

3 hours ago, Molotov said:

I really like seeing how focused Tierney is pre match and not bothering with a usual poor karaoke performance. He looks as if he is about to murder his opponents.

Our anthem is arguably shite compared to the Italians.

Perhaps we need a new anthem before Germany?

Yeah, this is what gets me when people criticise him for not singing, because you can see he’s just totally focused and taking the atmosphere in.  You could never doubt his commitment or anything because of it. Who cares if he sings or not?

I love all our adopted Scottish players tbh. I don’t doubt the commitment or desire of any of them, whether it’s their parents or grandparents or simply being here long enough, that qualifies them. You cannot say there’s a single player out there at the moment that doesn’t earn their place in the squad each time they play and who doesn’t appear to love playing for us.

Anyone who is happy to be that committed to the Scotland team is welcome tbh. 

 

 

[No_Problemo]

5 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

Yeah, this is what gets me when people criticise him for not singing, because you can see he’s just totally focused and taking the atmosphere in.  You could never doubt his commitment or anything because of it. Who cares if he sings or not?

I love all our adopted Scottish players tbh. I don’t doubt the commitment or desire of any of them, whether it’s their parents or grandparents or simply being here long enough, that qualifies them. You cannot say there’s a single player out there at the moment that doesn’t earn their place in the squad each time they play and who doesn’t appear to love playing for us.

Anyone who is happy to be that committed to the Scotland team is welcome tbh. 

 

 

I was actually wondering while he was doing it the other night, with his eyes closed, if there is some kind of sports psychology reasoning behind it too - if he is visualising his role in the game or whatever or as you say he is just taking it all in, using it as motivation etc. 

Whatever it is, it’s obviously personal to him and really doesn’t matter. Weird as f**k to care about it! 

[JagsCG]

49 minutes ago, Self-raising Lazarus said:

I genuinely don't think we need him, and it would be unfair on Nisbet and shankland who haven't really had many opportunities to impress in a scotland shirt. That said, if Clarke thinks he's worth a look, fine by me. 

Isn’t that just the nature of football?
I don’t think Clarke would pass up the opportunity of bringing a quality forward into the setup on the basis that it might disappoint one of those 3rd/4th choice strikers that he never plays. 

Edited September 10, 2023 by JagsCG

[oneteaminglasgow]

55 minutes ago, Self-raising Lazarus said:

I genuinely don't think we need him, and it would be unfair on Nisbet and shankland who haven't really had many opportunities to impress in a scotland shirt. That said, if Clarke thinks he's worth a look, fine by me. 

We don’t necessarily ‘need’ him, but he would unquestionably improve our squad and give us an option we don’t really have just now, so it’d be stupid not to give him a shout if he wants to.

It’s no more unfair than calling up Gunn ahead of Clark and Kelly was, but that was obviously the right decision too. 

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, Self-raising Lazarus said:

I genuinely don't think we need him, and it would be unfair on Nisbet and shankland who haven't really had many opportunities to impress in a scotland shirt. That said, if Clarke thinks he's worth a look, fine by me. 

Does anyone else think this might be a knock on from the elliot Anderson situation? He pulls out, and another forward suddenly becomes open to playing.

Having another option available to challenge guys is always a good thing. Folk like Armstrong and MacLean are now the wrong side of 30 too and will need replaced squad wise over the next few years, having a 25 year old EPL player coming up behind them is perfect IMO. I hope it's true that Barnes has switched and I hope that Anderson stays true to his initial commitment. 

[Ewanandmoreagain]

56 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

Yeah, taking away everything else - exactly this. 

Without trying to jinx it, any injury in our advanced midfield areas and we are then back to relying on Christie and Armstrong - as much as I like both of them, Barnes is absolutely miles in front as well as being a potentially game changing sub option. 

Lewis Ferguson

[oneteaminglasgow]

1 hour ago, Ludo*1 said:

Barnes is better than anything we have on the wing right now. It's irrelevant that we don't play with wingers in our current system because we need to be adaptable and who's to say we won't play with wingers in the next 3-4 years? Who's to say he can't play just off the striker? He's absolutely quality and it's an indictment on Southgate's selections that he hasn't been in the England squad more. He'd be a huge coup for us.

Get him in!

If we’re looking at our wingers being Barnes and Doak in that time frame, then it might force the issue somewhat. 

[Ewanandmoreagain]

14 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

 

It’s no more unfair than calling up Gunn ahead of Clark and Kelly was, but that was obviously the right decision too. 

That was a surprise from SSC

[No_Problemo]

4 minutes ago, Ewanandmoreagain said:

Lewis Ferguson

Yeah, but he seems to be behind Christie and Armstrong - though I imagine he will take over at least one of them in the near ish future. 

[KingRocketman II]

1 hour ago, Estragon said:

Exactly this. Its not a queue system, these two are good squad players but won't be starters unless something dramatic changes.

If Barnes improves the squad he's in.

 

57 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

Yeah, taking away everything else - exactly this. 

I am fairly ambivalent about this and am as far removed from your face painted kilt wearing FoS at drop of hat singing supporter as one can be. But at same time this is not club football; international football is under-pinned by eligibility and nationality and all that entails including anthems, flag-waving and identity - all re-inforced as such by UEFA and FIFA. 

Therefore those arguing about squad unity etc (which wouldn't necessarily be the points I raise or points I care about as we seem to do alright on this front) are raising points that most international team supporters elsewhere would also be debating if someone with a tenuous (but clear) connection to the national team were being considered. In Scotland we conflate all this with the independence argument particularly if said player is from England, and reservations about selection are often dismissed as wee nationalist Braveheart type thinking. 

it is not as simple as saying if they are good enough and are eligible then they should be called up. 

[GAD]

I'm good with Barnes joining, he's an excellent player who will make us better. I understand the arguments about how it may be tough on whoever drops out, and it does look a wee bit mercenary deciding he's fine to join now that he knows he'll be playing in the Euros off the back of others efforts, but that's life as a professional footballer.

I've got no problems with the grandparent rule either, the world is getting smaller and the Scots seem to have spread themselves all over the globe and done a power of shagging when there so it's high time folk got used to it.

[jamamafegan]

It's a big no from me. He's rejected our advances before on two occasions I believe and only now when Scotland are doing well and he misses out on an England call up he gives us consideration. This is an Englishman who cares more about playing international football than representing Scotland and what it mean to put on the shirt. We already spent years in the doldrums selecting English players with Scottish grannies and it got us absolutely nowhere. We have a squad of players now with an incredible team spirit who all know just what it means to play for Scotland. We don't need Harvey Barnes. 

[Crùbag]

Switichg from England to Scotland now we've qualified and have become the in-form team in Europe...