Harvey Barnes

[Gaz]

1 hour ago, Self-raising Lazarus said:

I genuinely don't think we need him, and it would be unfair on Nisbet and shankland who haven't really had many opportunities to impress in a scotland shirt. That said, if Clarke thinks he's worth a look, fine by me. 

Does anyone else think this might be a knock on from the elliot Anderson situation? He pulls out, and another forward suddenly becomes open to playing.

Giving a game to Nisbet or Shankland would be unfair to me, I haven't had *any* opportunities to impress in a Scotland shirt.

[Brother Blades]

No problem with any of the granny rule players or their commitment but this does seem to be different in that it does seem rather mercenary.

The other thought that occurred to me was that IF the rumours about Elliot Anderson are true & England have tapped him up rather than letting him become ineligible if he got enough caps for us, is this Barnes maybe flashing his knickers in Southgates direction to see if he reacts? Obviously all speculation on my part & I’d be delighted to be proven wrong & Barnes comes to us & shows the passion & commitment of Adams, Dykes, Mctominay etc. 

[Gordopolis]

I'm definitely up for trying him out.

We don't play with wingers just now, but it'd be short-sighted to assume that our current way of playing will suit us for the foreseeable. It's working brilliantly now, but these things have a shelf life and other sooner or later teams work out how to counter.

Imagine coming up against a big side in the euros. Our current system isn't working against them and they are dominating. What a powerful weapon it'd be to be able to completely change it up and pitch in two top wingers (say, Barnes and Doak). I know squad size limits might make it tricky to cater for both approaches, but worth exploring imo.

[Self-raising Lazarus]

1 hour ago, Crawford Bridge said:

"Unfair". It's international football, not a social club. 

Nisbet and Shankpen aren't good enough, simple as that. 

Nisbet might continue to improve, shankland might be at his peak, but I'd really prefer a guy who has turned up when we haven't been qualifying or playing well, (Adams and gunn have proved they deserve to be here)

And in terms of being "fair" that's what I was referring to, maybe loyalty is a better word? Throwing caps to someone who wasn't interested before, and maybe sitting on a plane to the euros in Germany rather than these guys is a bit pish.

[Ewanandmoreagain]

28 minutes ago, Gaz said:

Giving a game to Nisbet or Shankland would be unfair to me, I haven't had *any* opportunities to impress in a Scotland shirt.

You are not a regular squad member

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, jamamafegan said:

It's a big no from me. He's rejected our advances before on two occasions I believe and only now when Scotland are doing well and he misses out on an England call up he gives us consideration. This is an Englishman who cares more about playing international football than representing Scotland and what it mean to put on the shirt. We already spent years in the doldrums selecting English players with Scottish grannies and it got us absolutely nowhere. We have a squad of players now with an incredible team spirit who all know just what it means to play for Scotland. We don't need Harvey Barnes. 

Presumably you want Che Adams punted then?

Both a similar age, both rejected Scotland multiple times, both (apparently in Barnes' case) only accepting a call up once a major tournament we'd qualified for was around the corner.

[Savage Henry]

3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Presumably you want Che Adams punted then?

Both a similar age, both rejected Scotland multiple times, both (apparently in Barnes' case) only accepting a call up once a major tournament we'd qualified for was around the corner.

Did McTominay also no reject a call up initially as well?

[Quentin Taranbino]

Whilst I think there could be truth in this story and the player may be considering us, to me this 'story' reeks of media play by his agent to get noticed by the English FA. 

Barnes has had a moan to his agent "Why is Southgate not picking me? What do I need to do etc"

Agent tells him "I'll leak a story to press about you thinking about Scotland and that will force Gareth to make a decision one way or the other for the games next month"

"And if he doesn't select me?"

"Move on and go play for Scotland if they will have you"

[RandomGuy.]

8 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

Did McTominay also no reject a call up initially as well?

Yup.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41890205

Accepted a call up not long after with Mourinho suggesting he'd told McTominay to choose Scotland as he thought England weren't interested.

[Savage Henry]

25 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Yup.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41890205

Accepted a call up not long after with Mourinho suggesting he'd told McTominay to choose Scotland as he thought England weren't interested.

A genuinely terrifying article you linked to there!

[RandomGuy.]

24 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

A genuinely terrifying article you linked to there!

Doesnt sound right but the game mentioned saw Ryan Jack, Callum McGregor and Ryan Christie all make their debut.

[Molotov]

47 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Yup.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41890205

Accepted a call up not long after with Mourinho suggesting he'd told McTominay to choose Scotland as he thought England weren't interested.

It does not say in that article that Scott rejected a call up. In fact Scott attended Scotland youth training camps so it’s a bit different to how that article is written. 

If he had chosen England his father and grandfather would have disowned him. Fergie was on his case to pull on the dark blue. 

Maybe we could go back even further and find a similar article about Bruce Rioch.  

[RandomGuy.]

3 minutes ago, Molotov said:

It does not say in that article that Scott rejected a call up. In fact Scott attended Scotland youth training camps so it’s a bit different to how that article is written. 

If he had chosen England his father and grandfather would have disowned him. Fergie was on his case to pull on the dark blue. 

Maybe we could go back even further and find a similar article about Bruce Rioch.  

He never wrote off England until he was 21. 

I dont think McTominay ever had any doubts about playing for Scotland regardless, but reading how articles were written/presented at the time wouldve led many of the "only Scots for Scotland!" crowd to claim he wasnt needed.

Important to remember that when judging Anderson/Barnes. Give them a chance and we either end up with an important player or they waste their chance of an International career and Clarke gets rid as we're both good enough where we dont need these players, and hes not going to put up with any shite. Its win-win for me tbh.

[Kadouken_]

Feel people are getting carried away with the run we’re on when I read threads like this. We need to be absolutely ruthless if we want to be competitive at the top level of international football. 
 

Every country on the planet is constantly looking for talent to ‘convert’ to their national side. Fucking France the biggest talent pool in the world fast tracked  Camavinga getting his citizenship so they could get him before they lost him to Angola. 
Spain with Diego Costa. 
Italy with Jorginho. 
Germany with god knows how many. 
Even the current World Cup winners Argentina with Garnacho from Man Utd. 
 

Unfortunately, England seem to have got their act together when it comes to youth development and look like they’ll be similar to France with producing dozens and dozens of top class players every generation. We need to take advantage of that if we want to do something serious at this level. 
 

Not calling up a player because it’s unfair to Lawrence Shankland is the type of shit that stops us progressing. 

[velo army]

6 minutes ago, Kadouken_ said:

Feel people are getting carried away with the run we’re on when I read threads like this. We need to be absolutely ruthless if we want to be competitive at the top level of international football. 
 

Every country on the planet is constantly looking for talent to ‘convert’ to their national side. Fucking France the biggest talent pool in the world fast tracked  Camavinga getting his citizenship so they could get him before they lost him to Angola. 
Spain with Diego Costa. 
Italy with Jorginho. 
Germany with god knows how many. 
Even the current World Cup winners Argentina with Garnacho from Man Utd. 
 

Unfortunately, England seem to have got their act together when it comes to youth development and look like they’ll be similar to France with producing dozens and dozens of top class players every generation. We need to take advantage of that if we want to do something serious at this level. 
 

Not calling up a player because it’s unfair to Lawrence Shankland is the type of shit that stops us progressing. 

That's a really good point about the ruthlessness and how other countries are. I'm sure that Italy didn't give a shit how Italian Jorginho was when they won the euros.

Welcome to the Scotland team Harvey.

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, velo army said:

That's a really good point about the ruthlessness and how other countries are. I'm sure that Italy didn't give a shit how Italian Jorginho was when they won the euros.

Welcome to the Scotland team Harvey.

Italy had 3 Brazilians in their Euro winning squad.

Frances Euro 2016 winners had 3 players born outside France too.

[Gaz]

2 hours ago, Ewanandmoreagain said:

You are not a regular squad member

Not with that attitude

[Crawford Bridge]

6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Italy had 3 Brazilians in their Euro winning squad.

Frances Euro 2016 winners had 3 players born outside France too.

Portugal won Euro 2016.

They had Pepe from Brazil. 

[Kadouken_]

6 minutes ago, velo army said:

That's a really good point about the ruthlessness and how other countries are. I'm sure that Italy didn't give a shit how Italian Jorginho was when they won the euros.

Welcome to the Scotland team Harvey.

Not trying to downplay what we’ve down or act like it’s a fluke but we need to be realistic. 
 

We can’t get complacent and think this is the norm. This could very end up being a purple patch/golden generation or witever you want to call them similar to Iceland, Wales, Finland etc. from the last decade. (I actually don’t believe this but it has to be pointed out)

We’ve got a great group being led by a top class manager who had to come up to Kilmarnock to rebuild his career. He doesn’t take the chance at Killie and we’re probably bouncing form McLiesh to Neilson to McInnes wondering where Scottish football is going wrong and having the media ask why can’t be like Hungary or Montenegro or Kazakhstan…

 

Wales, Northern Ireland and the Republic made the knockouts of euro 2016, with Wales going all the way to the semi finals. It all changes very quickly for small nations outside of Croatia basically. 

[Kadouken_]

4 minutes ago, Crawford Bridge said:

Portugal won Euro 2016.

They had Pepe from Brazil. 

Look at what Morocco just done with players from all over Europe. Hardly any of their squad were Moroccan if we’re going by P&B’s definition. 
 

The idea ‘foreign’ players will somehow dampen the connection with the support or witever way you want to describe it simply doesn’t happen. 
 

Countries fans will buy into anything as long as the teams good.