Who’s on the plane?

[GordonS]

On 03/05/2024 at 10:03, JagsCG said:

That’s quite harsh. James Forrest was unplayable for about 2/3 games under McLeish, but other than that he was mostly disappointing in a Scotland shirt. We’ve beaten Israel since his hat trick (not including the penalties game). 

I don't disagree with that, but I still think it's more than Armstrong has delivered.

FWIW when I said he's more of an option if we don't have Hickey or Paterson, I wasn't remotely suggesting he would play their position or wing back. I'm saying none of our replacement options for right back can offer much offensively, so it becomes more important to have someone that can attack from wide right. If we're in need of a goal against Switzerland or Hungary I could see Forrest on the right and Robertson high on the left, with Dykes and/or Shankland in the middle. We needed Kenny McLean to play that role in Oslo, coming on for Porteous, but I wouldn't want to pin my hopes on him repeating that act of genius.

And again, only if he's properly fit and in form through to the end of the season.

[2426255]

2 hours ago, GordonS said:

I'm saying none of our replacement options for right back can offer much offensively, so it becomes more important to have someone that can attack from wide right. If we're in need of a goal against Switzerland or Hungary I could see Forrest on the right and Robertson high on the left, with Dykes and/or Shankland in the middle. We needed Kenny McLean to play that role in Oslo, coming on for Porteous, but I wouldn't want to pin my hopes on him repeating that act of genius.

Kenny McLean played from left midfield against Norway in Oslo. Aaron Hickey moved from right wing back to right full back and Stuart Armstrong played right midfield after replacing Ryan Christie. 

Spoiler

https://streamable.com/eiavvt

[2426255]

11 hours ago, GordonS said:

I'm saying none of our replacement options for right back can offer much offensively, so it becomes more important to have someone that can attack from wide right.

Ralston is quite an offensive option from wing-back. His crossing is good and for Scotland he has on a number of occasions been deployed high on the right to take advantage of that. 

The back-5 is rotated, pushing one side of it higher up the pitch and dropping the other side lower. The outside centre back becomes a full-back and the wing back becomes a winger.  It's a mechanism that get's used frequently in our build-up. In our Nations League defeat to Ireland it can be clearly seen, so that's a good example of it being used. 

Spoiler

Spoiler

McKenna + Robertson. Spain v Scotland.

https://streamable.com/st2lq1  McKenna and Taylor.  France v Scotland.

Edited May 6 by 2426255

[craigkillie]

13 hours ago, GordonS said:

I don't disagree with that, but I still think it's more than Armstrong has delivered.

Armstrong's big ticket moments were getting the first goal in the win over Lithuania that kept our 2018 World Cup qualifying campaign alive and scoring a double and setting one up away in Armenia in that Nations League game when we were in the midst of a bit of a wobble. However, he also played in every single game of that winning Nations League campaign, 6 of the games in the most recent Euros qualifying campaign and started the game that sealed the play-off place for the last World Cup.

He also set up Chris Martin's late winner against Slovenia, Forrest's first goal in that Israel game, Che Adams' goal against Denmark at Hampden and Shankland's equaliser against Gerorgia.

That's a long and illustrious Scotland career with sustained contributions, rather than just a very good couple of games.

Even looking at the match report from the Israel game where Forrest scored the hat-trick, I found the following:

Spoiler

Celtic's Forrest has the Midas touch right now. Everything he touches turns to goals. Twelve in his past 11 games for club and country is an astonishing statistic for a winger. His composure for all three goals spoke volumes of his burgeoning self-confidence.

It was Stuart Armstrong, though, who dragged Scotland up by their bootlaces as the good feeling built up in Saturday's 4-0 win over Albania threatened to drain away with the Hampden rain.

Following a first quarter dominated by the Israelis, the Southampton midfielder drove the hosts forward. His first foray almost brought a goal for Callum McGregor - a good hand from Ariel Harush denying him.

But shortly afterwards Armstrong burst into the box again. His shot was charged down but fell kindly for Forrest, who lashed it low beyond the keeper to begin the turnaround.

 

Edited May 6 by craigkillie

[Gordopolis]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

...and Shankland's equaliser against Germany.

 

Mystic Craig? Hopefully 

[Lyle Lanley]

Clarke apparently wants Doak in the squad for the Euro's.

 

 

[2426255]

I saw Danny Armstrong do an interview on PLZ. Didn't like how he dropped in that he qualifies for Ireland almost as a pick me or I'll go there - Ryan Gauld said similar about Canada. Seems a nice guy, not sure about that though. I'd be happy if he played for Ireland. I don't think we've been regretting not selecting Mikey Johnston for example. 

https://youtu.be/oMjN7x2-OB8?si=d8dhuTIZVBKbZJiO&t=618

 

[Butters Scotch]

2 hours ago, 2426255 said:

I saw Danny Armstrong do an interview on PLZ. Didn't like how he dropped in that he qualifies for Ireland almost as a pick me or I'll go there - Ryan Gauld said similar about Canada. Seems a nice guy, not sure about that though. I'd be happy if he played for Ireland. I don't think we've been regretting not selecting Mikey Johnston for example. 

https://youtu.be/oMjN7x2-OB8?si=d8dhuTIZVBKbZJiO&t=618

 

Why? He would rather play for Scotland by the sounds of it but he's accepted how hard it is for him to break into the Scotland squad and has been on form the last couple of seasons but still can't break in. He's coming up for 27 also so maybe he's thinking the Ireland route will be better for him if he doesn't break in soon.

[2426255]

37 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said:

Why? He would rather play for Scotland by the sounds of it but he's accepted how hard it is for him to break into the Scotland squad and has been on form the last couple of seasons but still can't break in. He's coming up for 27 also so maybe he's thinking the Ireland route will be better for him if he doesn't break in soon.

I didn't think he needed to say it, he wasn't asked - the interviewer clearly didn't know about eligibility for Ireland.

I therefore interpreted that as being a bit manipulative because as you've said it's clear he'd rather play for Scotland and so it's creating a pressure. I think it counts against players when they start playing games - just get on with your football and see if it's enough. It was similar with the Ryan Gauld hinting that he might switch to Canada to force Clarke's hand.

I don't object to him being called up and barring that I think he seemed like a nice guy, reminded me of his manager. So good luck to him whether it's with Scotland or Ireland.

Edited May 7 by 2426255

[Butters Scotch]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

I didn't think he needed to say it, he wasn't asked - the interviewer clearly didn't know about eligibility for Ireland.

I therefore interpreted that as being a bit manipulative because as you've said it's clear he'd rather play for Scotland and so it's creating a pressure. I think it counts against players when they start playing games - just get on with your football and see if it's enough. It was similar with the Ryan Gauld hinting that he might switch to Canada to force Clarke's hand.

I don't object to him being called up and barring that I think he seemed like a nice guy, reminded me of his manager. So good luck to him whether it's with Scotland or Ireland.

Players like Armstrong who are playing at the likes of Killie into their later 20's don't often get picked for decent national teams but it does sound like there may be some interest from Ireland hence why he mentions it but he's holding off on Clarke selecting him (pure speculation on my part). He's speaking to the media about it so he has an ambition to play internationally but if Clarke decides to continue on not selecting him then that's on Clarke and not him, I don't see the issue here at all. I doubt Clarke will be that bothered.

 

 

[PrestersKTID]

11 hours ago, Lyle Lanley said:

Clarke apparently wants Doak in the squad for the Euro's.

 

 

It's not a bad shout, just a shame he's been injured as he would've had a lot more games for liverpool in europa league and cups

Clarke took Patterson and Gilmour last time as youngsters.

Doak offers something different, skill and pace. He'll be in the squad at somepoint anyway if he continues to get games at high level so why not try him, especially with larger squads.  

[Skyline Drifter]

4 hours ago, 2426255 said:

I didn't think he needed to say it, he wasn't asked - the interviewer clearly didn't know about eligibility for Ireland.

I therefore interpreted that as being a bit manipulative because as you've said it's clear he'd rather play for Scotland and so it's creating a pressure. I think it counts against players when they start playing games - just get on with your football and see if it's enough. It was similar with the Ryan Gauld hinting that he might switch to Canada to force Clarke's hand.

I don't object to him being called up and barring that I think he seemed like a nice guy, reminded me of his manager. So good luck to him whether it's with Scotland or Ireland.

Might he have said it to put it on the Irish radar? Appreciate his agent is likely making Ireland aware of it in the background anyway but once you mention it publicly then the Irish media might start to speculate, etc..........

[2426255]

39 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Might he have said it to put it on the Irish radar? Appreciate his agent is likely making Ireland aware of it in the background anyway but once you mention it publicly then the Irish media might start to speculate, etc..........

I'm not too sure, just when I heard it I thought why is he even mentioning it - why did he bring it up?

13 hours ago, Lyle Lanley said:

Clarke apparently wants Doak in the squad for the Euro's.

Probably going to be a wait and see job. The Sun are reporting it. No sources, just the usual: "SunSport understands Steve Clarke is considering taking the uncapped 18-year-old Anfield prodigy to Germany." 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/12628018/scotland-steve-clarke-sensational-euro-2024-liverpool-ben-doak/

Maybe it's also being reported elsewhere, wouldn't surprise me if it's just made up.

Ben Doak, James Forrest and Danny Armstrong. They won't all be going, Maybe none of them - wouldn't that be a laugh.

Edited May 7 by 2426255

[Butters Scotch]

13 hours ago, Lyle Lanley said:

Clarke apparently wants Doak in the squad for the Euro's.

 

 

Class if true and is match fit but hasn't he been out for 5-6 months and had an op? Surely a waste of shirt if he won't play him. Due to the injury situation, we shouldn't be taken any passengers just for the experience like we did at the previous euros IMO.

If this happens alongside bringing in James Forrest or Armstrong then it goes to show there is a definitive issue regarding Ryan Fraser as he is by far our next best attacking option currently 

[JS_FFC]

Just over a month until the hard deadline now. Steve Clarke will have a strong idea of who his 26 are and who might come in if any of the doubts don’t make it. That report about Doak and Forrest won’t have come from nowhere.

 

 

Goalkeepers: Angus Gunn, Craig Gordon and Zander Clark (3)

 

Defenders: Andy Robertson, Kieran Tierney, Aaron Hickey, Ryan Porteous, Jack Hendry, Scott McKenna, John Souttar, Tony Ralston, Grant Hanley and Liam Cooper (10)

 

Midfielders: John McGinn, Callum McGregor, Scott McTominay, Billy Gilmour, Ryan Christie, Stuart Armstrong, Kenny McLean, James Forrest, Ben Doak and Ryan Jack (10)

 

Strikers: Che Adams, Lyndon Dykes and Lawrence Shankland (3)

 

That’s my 26 for now based on the optimism that Hickey, Tierney, Armstrong and McTominay will make it. Ferguson is already ruled out whilst Patterson and Brown are less likely to make it than the others.

 

I’ve left out Ryan Fraser as he was notably omitted from that record piece that is tipping Forrest for a recall and Doak to make the plane.

If that is the squad, then I think Greg Taylor (Tierney), Max Johnston (Hickey), Tom Cairney (McTominay) and Ryan Fraser (his teammate Armstrong) would be your standby guys, but with the 26 man squad I think Clarke will err on the side of taking players even if they might struggle to be fit for the opener. 

[PSJ.84]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

Probably going to be a wait and see job. The Sun are reporting it. No sources, just the usual: "SunSport understands Steve Clarke is considering taking the uncapped 18-year-old Anfield prodigy to Germany." 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/12628018/scotland-steve-clarke-sensational-euro-2024-liverpool-ben-doak/

Maybe it's also being reported elsewhere, wouldn't surprise me if it's just made up.

Ben Doak, James Forrest and Danny Armstrong. They won't all be going, Maybe none of them - wouldn't that be a laugh.

I thought it was a pretty nothing article, to be honest. Merely just a Clickbait title before saying Scotland manager considers Scottish player for Scotland squad. 

[2426255]

8 minutes ago, PSJ.84 said:

I thought it was a pretty nothing article, to be honest. Merely just a Clickbait title before saying Scotland manager considers Scottish player for Scotland squad. 

There will be tears if Ross McCrorie is called up along with Jacob Brown and Ryan Jack.

[BroraBoy]

2 hours ago, JS_FFC said:

Just over a month until the hard deadline now. Steve Clarke will have a strong idea of who his 26 are and who might come in if any of the doubts don’t make it. That report about Doak and Forrest won’t have come from nowhere.

 

 

Goalkeepers: Angus Gunn, Craig Gordon and Zander Clark (3)

 

Defenders: Andy Robertson, Kieran Tierney, Aaron Hickey, Ryan Porteous, Jack Hendry, Scott McKenna, John Souttar, Tony Ralston, Grant Hanley and Liam Cooper (10)

 

Midfielders: John McGinn, Callum McGregor, Scott McTominay, Billy Gilmour, Ryan Christie, Stuart Armstrong, Kenny McLean, James Forrest, Ben Doak and Ryan Jack (10)

 

Strikers: Che Adams, Lyndon Dykes and Lawrence Shankland (3)

 

That’s my 26 for now based on the optimism that Hickey, Tierney, Armstrong and McTominay will make it. Ferguson is already ruled out whilst Patterson and Brown are less likely to make it than the others.

 

I’ve left out Ryan Fraser as he was notably omitted from that record piece that is tipping Forrest for a recall and Doak to make the plane.

If that is the squad, then I think Greg Taylor (Tierney), Max Johnston (Hickey), Tom Cairney (McTominay) and Ryan Fraser (his teammate Armstrong) would be your standby guys, but with the 26 man squad I think Clarke will err on the side of taking players even if they might struggle to be fit for the opener. 

Fair play for selecting 26 players there J 

 

I’m not going to criticise and I concur with pretty much all of those but it’s a sad indictment that we only have 3 strikers  

You can argue that ( Doak + Christie ) could be classed under Attack, then this  would mean ( 10 Def  / 8 Mid / 5 Attack ) 

23 outfield players to choose from, if Clarke and Scotland go with the 3 CB’s and Hickey / Robertson as wing backs ( full backs or whatever you call them nowadays ) 10 defenders is about right then, midfield is our strength when all fit and healthy, so 8/9 Midfielders but the sad thing is our lack of Strikers/Forwards who can put the ball in the net…….

[BroraBoy]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

There will be tears if Ross McCrorie is called up along with Jacob Brown and Ryan Jack.

If Ryan Jack gets selected it just screams desperation and that we genuinely have no one else to select……..

[Skyline Drifter]

2 hours ago, JS_FFC said:

Just over a month until the hard deadline now. Steve Clarke will have a strong idea of who his 26 are and who might come in if any of the doubts don’t make it. That report about Doak and Forrest won’t have come from nowhere.

Goalkeepers: Angus Gunn, Craig Gordon and Zander Clark (3)

Defenders: Andy Robertson, Kieran Tierney, Aaron Hickey, Ryan Porteous, Jack Hendry, Scott McKenna, John Souttar, Tony Ralston, Grant Hanley and Liam Cooper (10)

Midfielders: John McGinn, Callum McGregor, Scott McTominay, Billy Gilmour, Ryan Christie, Stuart Armstrong, Kenny McLean, James Forrest, Ben Doak and Ryan Jack (10)

Strikers: Che Adams, Lyndon Dykes and Lawrence Shankland (3)

That’s my 26 for now based on the optimism that Hickey, Tierney, Armstrong and McTominay will make it. Ferguson is already ruled out whilst Patterson and Brown are less likely to make it than the others.

I’ve left out Ryan Fraser as he was notably omitted from that record piece that is tipping Forrest for a recall and Doak to make the plane.
If that is the squad, then I think Greg Taylor (Tierney), Max Johnston (Hickey), Tom Cairney (McTominay) and Ryan Fraser (his teammate Armstrong) would be your standby guys, but with the 26 man squad I think Clarke will err on the side of taking players even if they might struggle to be fit for the opener. 

I'm yet to see a convincing argument beyond sentiment that Craig Gordon will be picked ahead of Liam Kelly. A few folk on here were touting that he'd get games post split but here we are three games left in Hearts season and he's played ONE league match in 18 months and four Scottish Cup ties. He's 41, he's barely seen competitive football and Clarke himself chose not to even give him half a game in two recent friendlies to have a look at him. I'd pick Gordon but I don't think Clarke will.

Ryan Jack hasn't seen a football pitch for two months either. If he doesn't play for Rangers before the season end he's not going IMO. Taking a punt on Hickey who is far more critical is one thing, taking it on Jack (and Grant Hanley assuming he doesn't play Norwich's playoff games) is another. Although he may have some sympathy for Jack missing the last Euros with injury too.

The Doak thing is interesting but I can't see why Clarke would take a teenager who hasn't played in 6 months. Given three extra slots he may have done so if the boy was fit as he did with Gilmour last time, but whilst acknowledging the paper talk probably has some source somewhere, it seems a reach to me. I'd expect Taylor to go. I also think Ross McCrorie would go before Forrest or Doak.