Who’s on the plane?

[Londonwell]

17 hours ago, 2426255 said:

Ryan Fraser is out until after the March international break. I think he's still got a chance for Euro-2024, but it's probably quite small just now. That would be a shame as I think at his best he could add something to the team.

https://www.southamptonfc.com/en/news/article/fraser-set-for-a-month-out

I also think he could add something for us. Shame for him as you say but on the other hand he isn’t an unknown quantity to Clarke and isn’t someone that would have to prove his credentials in an international camp (other than smoothing over whatever disagreements there were previously). Good form post injury could still see him sneak in. 

[BB_Bino]

17 hours ago, 2426255 said:

Ryan Fraser is out until after the March international break. I think he's still got a chance for Euro-2024, but it's probably quite small just now. 

I honestly don't think he has, and I would throw Hardie into that as well. I'm not saying that is right or wrong but I genuinely think there are going to be no surprises in Clarke's squad in recalls etc etc. He'll pick from lads that were involved during the qualifiers, yes he'll give people chances to get into the squad or get back into the squad but I don't think he'll do that at a major final, Fraser and the likes will simply have to continue impressing until the Nation League kicks off. 

The caveat to that is of course injuries, or if a player that he just can't resist makes himself available. I do suspect if Barnes approaches him and says he's up for it, that Clarke will take him into the fold during the friendlies if he has a space in the squad in his own head., but out with that, I just can't see him doing it personally.

[2426255]

48 minutes ago, BB_Bino said:

I honestly don't think he has, and I would throw Hardie into that as well. I'm not saying that is right or wrong but I genuinely think there are going to be no surprises in Clarke's squad in recalls etc etc. He'll pick from lads that were involved during the qualifiers, yes he'll give people chances to get into the squad or get back into the squad but I don't think he'll do that at a major final, Fraser and the likes will simply have to continue impressing until the Nation League kicks off. 

The caveat to that is of course injuries, or if a player that he just can't resist makes himself available. I do suspect if Barnes approaches him and says he's up for it, that Clarke will take him into the fold during the friendlies if he has a space in the squad in his own head., but out with that, I just can't see him doing it personally.

I agree with you. I mentioned him because of the injuries to Brown and Nisbet which opened the door slightly imo. Euro-2024 qualifying makes it obvious Dykes, Adams and Christie are our primary strikers while Shankland, Nisbet and Brown are behind them. 

Then you're looking at the likes of Fraser and Stewart who have been involved in 2022. Fraser wasn't getting game time in the first half of 2023, which is when he dropped out from Scotland and hasn't been able to get back in while Stewart has been out with a long term injury, but they would be next in line after that and could compete with that group of three in my view.

I also understand that people don't view Fraser as a striker, but he's been listed for Scotland with the strikers - similar to Christie who plays both attacking midfield and as a support striker. I still think if he has a good end to the year and say Shankland picks up an injury, that's a discussion that would come up. I don't think it's likely though.

Edited February 28 by 2426255

[2426255]

"Goalscoring form for February": Pretty meagre month. Shankland did well as usual. Adams, Hardie and Gordon did okay. Conway has dropped right off and anyone else is injured not getting game time. 

Spoiler

The total since the last International window in November: Adams has actually done reasonably well - not a million miles off a goal a game for Southampton. I can see why Hardie is getting a few mentions. Shankland doing really well, obviously with the caveat that it's in the easiest league.

Spoiler

 

[Hendricks]

 

 

Jacob Brown 

[Lyle Lanley]

7 minutes ago, Hendricks said:

 

 

Jacob Brown 

Shankland should be one of the starting 11 at the Germany game. 

[HoBNob]

On 22/02/2024 at 23:38, craigkillie said:

Go and watch those two goals against Norway, or the whole 90 minutes against Spain at Hampden for that matter, and then come back again and tell me that Dykes offers nothing to this team.

Dykes, along with McGinn and Robertson is the heart and soul of this squad, he epitomises absolutely everything that Steve Clarke wants from his team. His attitude is exemplary, he leads from the front, he scores goals and he creates goals. It is no coincidence that McGinn and McTominay are filling their boots when he is leading the line for Scotland.

Is he a remotely good footballer? No, he's considerably worse than most of his teammates. Is he a good Scotland centre-forward? Absolutely, I'd argue he's probably in the top three this century.

I don't think anyone said he offers nothing, I just don't think he's as good as made out, and it's an area of the squad we could do with improving. 

To put the shoe on the other foot about it not being a coincidence that McGinn and McTominay are filling there boots, is there not an argument that the fantastic play of McGinn and McTominay is more vital in that relationship? Someone posted it further back in the thread but McTominays goal return for his xG is just stupid. 

Even the comment about being top three this century, would you not say he's fortunate to be under very good management and to have a good squad around him? Would Steven Fletcher in his prime have been better in this set up in Dykes? For me he would, would Dykes if he'd played under Burley/Levein etc still be in your top three strikers? Doubtful. 

I can't say I have insider knowledge about how he is around camp, but calling him the heart and soul along with McGinn and Robertson seems wild from the outside, Dykes isn't a guaranteed starter like the other two are. 

As before, I fully expect Dykes to be on the plane and I won't grumble, I just think his importance is overstated because such has been our paucity of decent striking options he's played a decent amount during a successful time. 

[JS_FFC]

If the squads are down to 23 I think versatile players that can cover multiple positions will be favoured on the fringes of the squad. Thats good news for Kenny McLean and Ryan Christie but disastrous for Ryan Jack and Greg Taylor.

[Quentin Taranbino]

If Robertson, Tierney and Hickey are all fit and included in the squad then it's almost impossible to justify a squad place for Greg Taylor

[Skyline Drifter]

38 minutes ago, Quentin Taranbino said:

If Robertson, Tierney and Hickey are all fit and included in the squad then it's almost impossible to justify a squad place for Greg Taylor

100%.

Greg Taylor's unlucky. I've not seen all that much of him over the years but you don't play as many games as he has for the multiple league champions without being a decent full back. At nearly any time over the last 30 years a player of Greg Taylor's ability would be a dead cert for the squad and most likely a regular first team player. He had the misfortune to come to the party at a time when in Robertson and Tierney we had our best two full backs in a couple of generations at least, both playing in his position. For good measure Hickey can play over that side too and Josh Doig is the next generation talent along with Hickey. Patterson, Calvin Ramsay and Max Johnston over the other side. We've never been better off for full backs in our history. And yet Taylor has managed 13 caps. Fair play to him. Barring injury to at least one of Robertson and Tierney though he's not going to Germany (although given one of those is Tierney he's still got every chance I suppose, especially if Steve Clarke still has Taylor ahead of Doig as appears likely).

EDIT - To be fair Gary Naysmith was a decent left back also within the last 30 years. And Allan Hutton on the other side.

Edited March 4 by Skyline Drifter

[Hendricks]

He needs to start at least one of the games later this month. 

[Skyline Drifter]

2 minutes ago, Hendricks said:

He needs to start at least one of the games later this month. 

He's also missed three penalties in that time (and as a result handed over penalties to Grant who has scored two of them). He could have had another 5!

I don't see him starting in Amsterdam. Perhaps at home to Northern Ireland?

[Hendricks]

4 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

He's also missed three penalties in that time (and as a result handed over penalties to Grant who has scored two of them). He could have had another 5!

I don't see him starting in Amsterdam. Perhaps at home to Northern Ireland?

He’d probably be delighted with that. Far more likely we dominate the ball at Hampden against N.Ireland and create some opportunities for him! 

[craigkillie]

2 hours ago, Quentin Taranbino said:

If Robertson, Tierney and Hickey are all fit and included in the squad then it's almost impossible to justify a squad place for Greg Taylor

All three of those players will be expected to start, so I don't think it's completley out of the realms of possibility that Taylor is then included so that we have the option to change things in the LB position without having to disrupt the rest of the team.

I think he's probably just about on the outside looking in for the 23 just now, but there's definitely still an argument for his inclusion.

[TeeMan]

22 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

All three of those players will be expected to start, so I don't think it's completley out of the realms of possibility that Taylor is then included so that we have the option to change things in the LB position without having to disrupt the rest of the team.

I think he's probably just about on the outside looking in for the 23 just now, but there's definitely still an argument for his inclusion.

Good point. It's probably wrong to think of Tierney as first change at left back - much rather see him at LCB with Taylor outside him if Robertson is injured. He's still vital to making that back 3 work for us.

[No_Problemo]

1 hour ago, TeeMan said:

Good point. It's probably wrong to think of Tierney as first change at left back - much rather see him at LCB with Taylor outside him if Robertson is injured. He's still vital to making that back 3 work for us.

IMO, I would be moving Hickey across and bringing Patterson on before Taylor moved there too. 

[JS_FFC]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

All three of those players will be expected to start, so I don't think it's completley out of the realms of possibility that Taylor is then included so that we have the option to change things in the LB position without having to disrupt the rest of the team.

I think he's probably just about on the outside looking in for the 23 just now, but there's definitely still an argument for his inclusion.

The way I see it is with 20 outfield players and 3 goalkeepers it’s effectively two XI’s plus an emergency third keeper. You really need versatile players on the fringes so guys like Kenny McLean and Ryan Christie that can cover multiple positions should be favoured over Jack/Armstrong. 

[2426255]

4 hours ago, Hendricks said:

He needs to start at least one of the games later this month. 

It's good form, lovely wee stat for Hearts fans and Scottish Premiership viewers to point to and say get him in. The biggest problem for me has always been that he plays at Hearts, without meaning any disrespect. Goal scoring form is a poor metric for a player's value to a team anyway, but playing in Scotland where the level goes from English League 1 (Livingston, Dundee) to Europa League level (Rangers, Celtic) makes it tough to compare Shankland to his competition.

I would be concerned if he started against Germany at the moment. If he is going to play a part at the Euro's then I'd like him to start against The Netherlands to basically test his capabilities. I don't think that'll happen, I think he'll be a backup until he gets a chance through injury or suspension.

Edited March 4 by 2426255

[No_Problemo]

2 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

It's good form, lovely wee stat for Hearts fans and Scottish Premiership viewers to point to and say get him in. The biggest problem for me has always been that he plays at Hearts, without meaning any disrespect. Goal scoring form is a poor metric for a player's value to a team anyway, but playing in Scotland where the league goes from League 1 level (Livingston, Dundee) to Europa League level (Rangers, Celtic) makes it tough to compare Shankland to his competition.

I would be concerned if he started against Germany at the moment. If he is going to play a part at the Euro's then I'd like him to start against The Netherlands to basically test his capabilities. I don't think that'll happen, I think he'll be a backup until he gets a chance.

I’m not sure goal scoring form is a poor metric of your value to a team, particularly when you are scoring at that rate but obviously there is far more to being a striker (particularly a Scotland one) than that. 

I agree with everything else you say though, I think he needs to start against Netherlands to see what his style of all round play does against a team of that standard. 

[2426255]

7 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Greg Taylor's unlucky. I've not seen all that much of him over the years but you don't play as many games as he has for the multiple league champions without being a decent full back. At nearly any time over the last 30 years a player of Greg Taylor's ability would be a dead cert for the squad and most likely a regular first team player. He had the misfortune to come to the party at a time when in Robertson and Tierney we had our best two full backs in a couple of generations at least, both playing in his position. For good measure Hickey can play over that side too and Josh Doig is the next generation talent along with Hickey. Patterson, Calvin Ramsay and Max Johnston over the other side. We've never been better off for full backs in our history. And yet Taylor has managed 13 caps. Fair play to him. Barring injury to at least one of Robertson and Tierney though he's not going to Germany (although given one of those is Tierney he's still got every chance I suppose, especially if Steve Clarke still has Taylor ahead of Doig as appears likely).

EDIT - To be fair Gary Naysmith was a decent left back also within the last 30 years. And Allan Hutton on the other side.

Greg Taylor is a very underappreciated player in a Scotland shirt and probably also for Celtic. He makes the best of what he's good at and his deficiencies aren't things he can affect (pace, height, athleticism).

He's never going to get in ahead of his competition, but when he is asked I think he does a good job for us. His passing is excellent and if you want something that he's arguably better suited to than Robertson or Tierney it's probably inverting and linking into midfield.

Edited March 4 by 2426255