allyo Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 40 minutes ago, JS_FFC said: In, barring injury: Gunn, Hickey, Patterson, Robertson, Tierney, Hendry, Porteous, Gilmour, McGregor, McTominay, McGinn, Adams, Dykes, Christie (14) Likely in: Gordon, McKenna, McLean, Armstrong, Ferguson, Shankland (6) This 20, + Zander Clark and Grant Hanley, is my "pretty definite if fully fit" 22. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 51 minutes ago, JS_FFC said: In, barring injury: Gunn, Hickey, Patterson, Robertson, Tierney, Hendry, Porteous, Gilmour, McGregor, McTominay, McGinn, Adams, Dykes, Christie (14) Likely in: Gordon, McKenna, McLean, Armstrong, Ferguson, Shankland (6) On the bubble: Clark, Kelly, Souttar, Cooper, Hanley, Taylor, Jack, Brown (8) Likely need someone else to get an injury: McCrorie x2, Ralston, Doig, Johnston, Hyam, Nisbet Wildcard outside shot: Fraser, Forrest, Turnbull, Stewart, Conway, any of the Newcastle 5, Morgan (10) Realistically I think it’s going to the top 20 plus a 3rd goalkeeper, one more centre back and then either Greg Taylor, Ryan Jack, or Jacob Brown. This is an absolutely wild take. There's no chance, absolutely no chance, that Gordon will be in the Scotland squad before Clark as it stands with the latter keeping him out of the Hearts team. The rest of your "likely in" list should all be in your "In barring injury" list. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 4 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said: This is an absolutely wild take. There's no chance, absolutely no chance, that Gordon will be in the Scotland squad before Clark as it stands with the latter keeping him out of the Hearts team. I'm still not so sure on that. What makes you so certain? I think Kelly is the least likely to go as things stand just based on historical information, but generally I wouldn't be putting any money on who our 2nd and 3rd goalkeepers will be. Is Clark keeping Gordon out of the Hearts team at the moment or is it part of phasing Craig Gordon back in to only play the cup games and build him back in slowly as a planned reintegration? I don't know enough about Hearts to answer that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 2 minutes ago, 2426255 said: I'm still not so sure on that. What makes you so certain? I think Kelly is the least likely to go as things stand just based on historical information, but generally I wouldn't be putting any money on who our 2nd and 3rd goalkeepers will be. Is Clark keeping Gordon out of the Hearts team at the moment or is it part of phasing Craig Gordon back in to only play the cup games and build him back in slowly as a planned reintegration? I don't know enough about Hearts to answer that. That's two different questions: Is Clark ahead of Gordon, and is Kelly ahead of Gordon. I was addressing the former, not the latter. I don't think there's any doubt at all that Clark is keeping Gordon out of Hearts team. The evidence is in front of us. He's not been picked over Clark for a competitive league game since he came back. He's been fit since early January and he's managed 3 cup appearances. If they're "phasing him in" they're doing it at a pace that will see him retired before he plays again. Ultimately he's a goalkeeper and he's either fit or he's not. He's not having to run up and down the park for 90 minutes. They've played him in cup ties, he's sitting on the bench for league games. He's fit and not being picked. Of course Clarke's not required to make the same choice just because Stevie Naismith has but he's already said when bringing Gordon back for this squad that it's going to be difficult to pick him if he's not playing games (or something like that, I can't recall the exact quote but I think you posted it?). It's conceivable, particularly given how poor a season Kelly's had, that Clarke's prepared to take Gordon over Kelly anyway. Personally I'd rather he did. However, I took his remarks on selecting Gordon here to suggest it's unlikely. There's been a few pros wading in to say similar also (Kenny Miller certainly did. I think McFadden too). The post you quoted though took issue at the suggestion Gordon is "likely" whilst Clark and Kelly are "on the bubble" and grouped together. I don't see any basis for that. It's pretty clear Zander Clark is ahead of Liam Kelly in the thinking. Hence he played both the late qualifiers when Gunn was out. Clark's place in the squad isn't under any threat for me. If Gordon goes it will be instead of Kelly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 3 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said: That's two different questions: Is Clark ahead of Gordon, and is Kelly ahead of Gordon. I was addressing the former, not the latter. I don't think there's any doubt at all that Clark is keeping Gordon out of Hearts team. The evidence is in front of us. He's not been picked over Clark for a competitive league game since he came back. He's been fit since early January and he's managed 3 cup appearances. If they're "phasing him in" they're doing it at a pace that will see him retired before he plays again. Ultimately he's a goalkeeper and he's either fit or he's not. He's not having to run up and down the park for 90 minutes. They've played him in cup ties, he's sitting on the bench for league games. He's fit and not being picked. Of course Clarke's not required to make the same choice just because Stevie Naismith has but he's already said when bringing Gordon back for this squad that it's going to be difficult to pick him if he's not playing games (or something like that, I can't recall the exact quote but I think you posted it?). It's conceivable, particularly given how poor a season Kelly's had, that Clarke's prepared to take Gordon over Kelly anyway. Personally I'd rather he did. However, I took his remarks on selecting Gordon here to suggest it's unlikely. There's been a few pros wading in to say similar also (Kenny Miller certainly did. I think McFadden too). The post you quoted though took issue at the suggestion Gordon is "likely" whilst Clark and Kelly are "on the bubble" and grouped together. I don't see any basis for that. It's pretty clear Zander Clark is ahead of Liam Kelly in the thinking. Hence he played both the late qualifiers when Gunn was out. Clark's place in the squad isn't under any threat for me. If Gordon goes it will be instead of Kelly. That's fair enough. For me at the moment it's Gordon, Gunn + another (probably Clark). Not in that order. The picture could change tomorrow night. I still see Gordon as part of the core, similar to Hanley, KT, Robertson etc. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 1 hour ago, Quentin Taranbino said: Disagree on Doak, although admittedly I'm not sure how long he is injured for. An injury to one of our main strikers and an extra spot opens up for the likes of Nisbet, Stewart, Conway and of course Doak if he is back fit and in and around the Liverpool first team squad as he was pre injury. Had he not been injured, I actually he think he would have had a bundle of starts for Liverpool this season given their injuries and would probably have been in the current Scotland squad as a result of that. I agree it's not looking likely for him at this stage but to write him off completely as you have done is folly. He's not played in months. He's just turned 18. The manager has said that he's unlikely at this stage to look to the u21 squad although the door isn't closed. The post I was replying to was caveated with "if everyone's fit". Obviously if there are a few attacking injuries the goalposts move. Doak's best chance isn't an injury to a striker anyway. He can't do what they do. It's an injury to Armstrong, or possibly Christie. Fraser might be ahead of him though. Depends how much Clarke really has forgiven the no shows regardless of what he said publicly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 2 minutes ago, 2426255 said: That's fair enough. For me at the moment it's Gordon, Gunn + another (probably Clark). Not in that order. The picture could change tomorrow night. I still see Gordon as part of the core, similar to Hanley, KT, Robertson etc. I wish that was the case. Like Hanley though he won't go if he doesn't play. One more game in a cup semi against Rangers probably doesn't cut it. I've said before, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Clarke fielded Gordon tomorrow night. If he does it's a very strong indication that he WANTS to take him and wants to help get him up to speed. Conversely if he's not involved tomorrow, especially if either Clark or Kelly is, then it's a strong indication he's outside the squad at the moment. The goalposts would move though if Hearts put him back in the team for the last month or so of the season. I agree 100% if he's playing he goes. I just don't think there's much doubt it would be Kelly who missed out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Taranbino Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 If Gunn was injured then Craig Gordon would be going to Euros as Clarkes number one. I don't think many people would disagree with that. Therefore I'm pretty confident he will be there as second choice and third choice will be between Kelly and Clark. I dont think it matters one jot that Clark is keeping him out at Hearts. The only caveat is if he isn't fully fit which I assume he is otherwise he wouldn't be in the squad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 2 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said: He's not played in months. He's just turned 18. The manager has said that he's unlikely at this stage to look to the u21 squad although the door isn't closed. The post I was replying to was caveated with "if everyone's fit". Obviously if there are a few attacking injuries the goalposts move. Doak's best chance isn't an injury to a striker anyway. He can't do what they do. It's an injury to Armstrong, or possibly Christie. Fraser might be ahead of him though. Depends how much Clarke really has forgiven the no shows regardless of what he said publicly. I don't think Doak is "ahead" of anyone. I dont think he's ever been in a senior squad(?). But a tournament is a different experience, and one that Clark might like to expose him to if he's fit and on form. I might be totally wrong, but hopefully we all accept that on here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 3 hours ago, allyo said: This 20, + Zander Clark and Grant Hanley, is my "pretty definite if fully fit" 22. 100% agree. Personally I believe the 23rd man will be another central defender, in my view Souttar, due to the concerns over Hanley's fitness and probably Tierney's history and ability to play 3 games in 10 days. This is assuming everyone else is fit! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 3 minutes ago, allyo said: I don't think Doak is "ahead" of anyone. I dont think he's ever been in a senior squad(?). But a tournament is a different experience, and one that Clark might like to expose him to if he's fit and on form. I might be totally wrong, but hopefully we all accept that on here. It is highly likely that Doak and several other young players are taken with the squad but are not in the 23. This has happened whenever we qualified for major tournaments in the past with many notable players given that experience. They are able to get a flavour for everything that goes on, they are used for training matches and drills and interact with all the senior pros and witness what's required. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Quentin Taranbino said: If Gunn was injured then Craig Gordon would be going to Euros as Clarkes number one. I don't think many people would disagree with that. Therefore I'm pretty confident he will be there as second choice and third choice will be between Kelly and Clark. I dont think it matters one jot that Clark is keeping him out at Hearts. The only caveat is if he isn't fully fit which I assume he is otherwise he wouldn't be in the squad. It's probable that Gordon will get several league games post split along with the Scottish Cup semi-final. Edited March 25 by Hendricks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 1 hour ago, Quentin Taranbino said: If Gunn was injured then Craig Gordon would be going to Euros as Clarkes number one. I don't think many people would disagree with that. Therefore I'm pretty confident he will be there as second choice and third choice will be between Kelly and Clark. I dont think it matters one jot that Clark is keeping him out at Hearts. The only caveat is if he isn't fully fit which I assume he is otherwise he wouldn't be in the squad. I'll disagree with it. Kenny Miller disagrees with it. We all WANT it to be the case but it's rose tinted thinking in my opinion. Hypothetically, if Gunn breaks his leg next week and misses the Euros and Craig Gordon spends the rest of the season playing one more game for Hearts, I fully expect Zander Clark would be starting against Germany. Gordon will definitely go if any of the other three are injured but if he remains behind Clark at Hearts he'll almost certainly remain behind him for Scotland. Clarke on Gordon This is not a ringing endorsement. He might take Gordon even if he's not playing regularly. You don't have to read very far between the lines to appreciate what he's saying here even if he rightly refused to outright spell it out. It's very difficult for a goalkeeper to be match sharp playing training games and an occasional cup tie so it absolutely matters that he's not playing club football. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 1 hour ago, Hendricks said: It's probable that Gordon will get several league games post split along with the Scottish Cup semi-final. Hopefully. And then, assuming he does fine in them then there's no great controversy. Bad news for Liam Kelly but both Gordon and Clark go. And maybe Gordon does then come into thinking for the Number 1 spot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 1 Gunn 2 hickey 3 Robertson 4 McTominay 5 Hanley/Cooper 6 Tierney 7 McGinn 8 McGregor 9 dykes 10 Adams 11 Christie 12 Gordon/Kelly 13 Hendry 14 Gilmour 15 Porteous 16 McKenna/Souttar 17 Armstrong 18 Shankland 19 Ferguson 20 Jack/Taylor/Ralston 21 Clark 22 Patterson 23 McLean 4 defenders for 2 positions, 4 gks for 3 positions I reckon he might go with Ralston for versatility as he has filled in left and right, if Jack isn't fit 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRocketman II Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 11 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said: I'll disagree with it. Kenny Miller disagrees with it. case closed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 14 hours ago, MarkoRaj said: 5 Hanley/Cooper 16 McKenna/Souttar 20 Jack/Taylor/Ralston I reckon he might go with Ralston for versatility as he has filled in left and right, if Jack isn't fit I doubt McKenna's competing with anyone for his place. If he's fit I'm pretty sure he'll go. Souttar's in that No 5 conversation. If Hanley's fit he'll go. If not then Cooper and Souttar are in competition for his place. That no 20 shirt is the one still up for grabs and it's not entirely inconceivable that both Cooper and Souttar go either. I don't think Ralston goes if Hickey's fit. He's not taking three right backs, particularly given Hickey can play either side. If Hanley and Hickey are both fit then Cooper, Souttar, Jack and Taylor (and any other Doak like wildcard anyone cares to throw in the mix) are competing for one spot. IMO. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Exactly that, I think 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 19 hours ago, MarkoRaj said: 1 Gunn 2 hickey 3 Robertson 4 McTominay 5 Hanley/Cooper 6 Tierney 7 McGinn 8 McGregor 9 dykes 10 Adams 11 Christie 12 Gordon/Kelly 13 Hendry 14 Gilmour 15 Porteous 16 McKenna/Souttar 17 Armstrong 18 Shankland 19 Ferguson 20 Jack/Taylor/Ralston 21 Clark 22 Patterson 23 McLean 4 defenders for 2 positions, 4 gks for 3 positions I reckon he might go with Ralston for versatility as he has filled in left and right, if Jack isn't fit Gordon will go ahead of Kelly. I don't think McKenna's place is in any doubt and I think Souttar will go too. I think if Hanley is fit he will go and if he isn't Cooper will go, so now straight up between them depending on Hanley's availability. I don't think any your No20's ie Jack, Taylor or Ralston will go. Obviously this is entirely dependent on us avoiding injuries and getting Hickey back. So my squad with everyone available: 1 Gunn 2 Hickey 3 Robertson 4 McTominay 5 Hanley 6 Tierney 7 McGinn 8 McGregor 9 Dykes 10 Adams 11 Christie 12 Gordon 13 Hendry 14 Gilmour 15 Porteous 16 McKenna 17 Armstrong 18 Shankland 19 Ferguson 20 Souttar 21 Clark 22 Patterson 23 McLean Edited March 26 by Hendricks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nessies long lost ghost Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Gunn, Gordon, Clark Hickey, Patterson, Porteous, Hendry, Hanley, Cooper, McKenna, Tierney, Robertson Gilmour, McGregor, McGinn, McTominay, Armstrong, Ferguson, McLean Dykes, Adams, Christie, Shankland I think Ralston, Jack, Souttar, Taylor narrowly miss out If Hickey is injured though - Ralston will go 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.