Derek Adams interview

[VincentGuerin]

2 hours ago, Pens_Dark said:

 

Sorry editing this a lot...but it could also be the case that they move up to the Scottish Premiership as they see it as a better platform to showcase their ability and get a decent move from there. I'd imagine there is more opportunity for that up here with tv etc than down South in the lower leagues.

Not really. Most of your tv time if you play for an SPFL club is spent playing backs to the wall against the OF. Far better to be in the EFL playing regularly and building your rep. "Did well in Scotland, but can he cut it down here" is a common, and fair, viewpoint you hear all the time.

You'll look hard to find an English player down south who sees a move to Scotland as a career going as he'd planned. It's almost always damaged goods or someone looking to kickstart a flagging career. Even the proper youngsters. Playing regularly down south is a better showcase. There's no question about that.

I think a lot of people are struggling to accept the level of disdain for our game in England. It's viewed with ridicule.

[Pete the Jakey]

2 hours ago, Pens_Dark said:

it could also be the case that they move up to the Scottish Premiership as they see it as a better platform to showcase their ability and get a decent move from there. I'd imagine there is more opportunity for that up here with tv etc than down South in the lower leagues.

I think you are bang on with that assessment. Mid range English players don’t move to Dingwall for the wages, the night life or the culture, it’s to hopefully get a move to an English championship side or better. Alex Iacovitti was an example of that for us, albeit he didn’t really move up the ladder by returning south to Port Vale.

[Monkey Tennis]

51 minutes ago, The Great Stagsby said:

A lot of unnecessarily twisted knickers, in my opinion. It's Derek Adams being Derek Adams, and Scottish football is immediately a more interesting and entertaining place for it.

 

Anyone who thinks that interview does our game damage probably massively overestimates Adams' influence* and hasn't enough faith in our game themselves. It MAY turn a few heads outwith Scotland. South of the border most people already have their minds made up, whether informed or otherwise, but if it gets a few people checking our game out then great: More attention on Scottish football, and the product will speak for itself far more effectively than a Derek Adams rant.

 

*Just because he lives rent-free in the heads of a great many Scottish football fans doesn't mean anyone beyond our borders gives a hoot what he has to say - if they even know he exists.

You don't need to believe his interview has far reaching implications to conclude that the guy's a w****r.

That's all most of us are doing.

[Pens_Dark]

17 minutes ago, Pete the Jakey said:

I think you are bang on with that assessment. Mid range English players don’t move to Dingwall for the wages, the night life or the culture, it’s to hopefully get a move to an English championship side or better. Alex Iacovitti was an example of that for us, albeit he didn’t really move up the ladder by returning south to Port Vale.

Yeah there has been a few examples with Dundee over the past years as well. Even if it isn't for an improved move down South it may be with the thought (or naivety) that if they play well enough they could get a move to a bigger Scottish side..

[Pens_Dark]

23 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Not really. Most of your tv time if you play for an SPFL club is spent playing backs to the wall against the OF. Far better to be in the EFL playing regularly and building your rep. "Did well in Scotland, but can he cut it down here" is a common, and fair, viewpoint you hear all the time.

You'll look hard to find an English player down south who sees a move to Scotland as a career going as he'd planned. It's almost always damaged goods or someone looking to kickstart a flagging career. Even the proper youngsters. Playing regularly down south is a better showcase. There's no question about that.

I think a lot of people are struggling to accept the level of disdain for our game in England. It's viewed with ridicule.

I think most people accept and know that most English footballers and people have a certain view on Scottish football that will never change. 

You quite clearly can't attach that to every single person though, plenty of examples of players coming from down South and viewing their time up here as nothing but a serious part of their career. Owen Beck, for example, highly rated at Liverpool and had opportunities at other clubs in the lower leagues in England and opted for us. It's not as simple as tarring all with the same brush...

[RandomGuy.]

25 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Playing regularly down south is a better showcase. There's no question about that.

Dimitar Mitov rejected EFL Championship clubs to sign for us this Summer, directly stating it was because he'd been told he'd get more media exposure and more chance of an International call up (which has proven true, hes been in every squad since joining and earned his first cap).

[Thistle Bonnet]

Kyle Turner had an excellent season for Thistle last year with 7 goals and 12 assists. Virtually every Thistle fan would have been very pleased if he had stayed at Firhill but he was out of contract and signed for Ross County.

Cammy Smith was a real disappointment at Firhill with 1 goal and no assists in 2 seasons. Not a single Thistle supporter would have put up a case for offering him a new contract. He signed for Morecambe.

[FootballFan89]

I would say there is a lot of people who would agree with Adams regarding the standard, also those who would argue he is wrong but all conversation surround the Scottish game is legit. Arguments on both sides would have a lot of substance. The issue I had with the interview is he doesn't make the point well and it doesn't come across as I thought out personal opinion that he can back up. It looks like he lost game of football because his players make a mistake and he tried to hit out at anyone and everyone like a child who had just been told they were getting ice cream after dinner. 

 

The English comparison was poor IMO, I watch a lot of league 1 and championship football and I've watched some rotten games over the past 3 months. 

 

Last thing on it would be that if he genuinely believes the standard of football is that bad in Scotland, what are his suggestions to improve it? not any good telling everyone how bad something is with no potential resolutions. 

 

I think Derek Adams will regret the way he came across and probably shows again why interviewing managers directly after games is not also the best idea, especially when emotions are high. 

[GorbalsMags]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Dimitar Mitov rejected EFL Championship clubs to sign for us this Summer, directly stating it was because he'd been told he'd get more media exposure and more chance of an International call up (which has proven true, hes been in every squad since joining and earned his first cap).

Knew someone would beat me to this. Yes - this is absolutely why he was happy to sign til 2025 with us as well. He'll be gone well before that and for excellent money too. Macca should have been a director of football, it was just his coaching and man management that was the problem because his signings have, on the whole, been excellent.

[Ludo*1]

Tony Docherty has finally had his say on Adams' comments in The Courier:

“The first thing I would say is I don’t want to become subjective on the matter but remain objective."

“The facts and match statistics are irrefutable. They are there for all to see.
“We had more possession, more goal attempts, more shots on target, a higher expected goals, we had more corners, more crosses and more final third entries.

“All those stats are facts. That’s objective, not being subjective about it.

“We deserved to win the game undoubtedly.”

“I was surprised (to hear Adams’ comments)"

“But listen I’ve been there, recently as well, when you lose a last-minute goal.

“I think Derek will reflect on his comments and regret a lot of them. For me, it was on the basis of emotion after losing a last-minute goal.

“But I certainly don’t think you take the line that he did with the disrespectful comments.

“As Dundee manager all I want to do is defend my players.

“There is a high standard of footballer at this football club and playing in the Scottish Premiership.

“I would defend my players and my football club. We are in a healthy position and the standard is certainly not what was said.

“But I think emotion was a big part of it after losing a late goal.”

[VincentGuerin]

3 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Dimitar Mitov rejected EFL Championship clubs to sign for us this Summer, directly stating it was because he'd been told he'd get more media exposure and more chance of an International call up (which has proven true, hes been in every squad since joining and earned his first cap).

He stated that, did he? Which Championship clubs? How likely to play? And what competition is he fighting off for the national squad?

And I think even you'd need to accept that someone playing in a specialist position who comes from a country where he's got a chance of playing for the national team is not representative of who normally comes to Scotland from the EFL.

Most players are looking to move up the English pyramid for a better wage.

And even if there is the odd exception, it doesn't negate the general point. Players want to stay down there. If you think the EFL is full of guys hoping to be at St Johnstone in February, then you're off your rocker.

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by VincentGuerin

[SH Panda]

22 hours ago, Pilgrim Ranger said:

I've been watching lower league English football for 30+ years and have to say the standard is higher now than it's ever been. My team is now in the Championship for the first time in 13 years and I have to say the league has improved massively even though it was a good league last time we were there. Many of the players would easily have been good enough to play in the first division years ago but now with the Premiership being of such high quality they can't make the grade.

The 2 Glasgow giants would be at or near the top of the Championship but the 2 or 3 clubs behind them would be league one level. The bottom half of the Scottish Premiership is lower half league 2 level.

There are lot's of English lower league players who were surplus to requirements that go on to play regularly in the Scottish Premiership which obviously says something.

People can debate the league structure all they like but Scottish football won't get better until we produce better players again. What the hell has happened to player development and coaching in Scotland?!

Odd post during our national teams strongest run in decades.

But if people want to compare us to English football, it's like Switzerland being devastated their army isn't as strong as the USA, and their GDP isn't as high as Chinas

Do people not understand proportionality at all? Of all the nations you could compare us to England is one of the least relevant.

Look to any other home nation, and any Scandinavian nation before you compare us to England.

If you keep comparing yourself to England you will always unnecessarily put yourself down, they are more than 11x our size FFS. Our proportional population figures beat theirs easily.

And if you don't believe in proportionality - great news, Scotland is far richer than Dubai*, Brunei and Monaco combined. What's everyone going to do with their money? Imma buy a yacht.

Sadly we are complete paupers compared to economic powerhouses like Pakistan, Indonesia or Nigeria but let's stay glass half full on this.

*Google figure seems low and they are surely fudging it. The rest I'm confident of.

Edited December 19, 2023 by SH Panda

[velo army]

7 hours ago, 2426255 said:

In my experience the normal reaction on P&B to someone arguing an unfashionable position is to say they're just being contrarian or attention seeking.  You've said yourself that recently you view my posts as useful and informative. I haven't been hostile or hurled insults and I've made fair points.

I could be better at just posting my opinion and letting it lie, but I like debating when I believe something strongly - so apologies for that.

   

It's not about arguing an unfashionable position, it's digging your heels in and arguing repetitively and constantly with everyone whose opinion differs from yours. You also have a habit of being passive aggressively smug when people aren't sharing in your unshakeably optimistic (and in the case of this thread from a place of inexperience as you admit you didn't witness Adams' previous County spells) interpretation of events. Now being an optimist is grand, but you seem unprepared to allow viewpoints that deviate from yours and you get sucked into a vortex of eternal debate. You do seem aware of your tendency to not letting things lie, and that's a big plus. 

I wasn't being generous with my interpretation of your posts by calling you a contrarian and a troll. I don't think you're a troll and you're not entirely a contrarian. Your posts on the TA thread bring a lot of value there. It might be a decent idea to pick your battles.

[GorbalsMags]

1 hour ago, Ludo*1 said:

Tony Docherty has finally had his say on Adams' comments in The Courier:

“The first thing I would say is I don’t want to become subjective on the matter but remain objective."

“The facts and match statistics are irrefutable. They are there for all to see.
“We had more possession, more goal attempts, more shots on target, a higher expected goals, we had more corners, more crosses and more final third entries.

“All those stats are facts. That’s objective, not being subjective about it.

“We deserved to win the game undoubtedly.”

“I was surprised (to hear Adams’ comments)"

“But listen I’ve been there, recently as well, when you lose a last-minute goal.

“I think Derek will reflect on his comments and regret a lot of them. For me, it was on the basis of emotion after losing a last-minute goal.

“But I certainly don’t think you take the line that he did with the disrespectful comments.

“As Dundee manager all I want to do is defend my players.

“There is a high standard of footballer at this football club and playing in the Scottish Premiership.

“I would defend my players and my football club. We are in a healthy position and the standard is certainly not what was said.

“But I think emotion was a big part of it after losing a late goal.”

Far more dignity than Adams' comments merited! He's a good lad is Tony Doc.

Edited December 19, 2023 by GorbalsMags

[Monkey Tennis]

3 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

"The facts and match statistics are irrefutable. They are there for all to see.

“We had more possession, more goal attempts, more shots on target, a higher expected goals, we had more corners, more crosses and more final third entries. "

Yeah Tony, but apart from that and the fact that Dundee won the game, County were clearly the better side, despite being 100 times worse than Morecambe.

I don't really see how you can argue otherwise.

[hk blues]

14 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

Went into a Derek Adams rabbit hole and just found out he changed Plymouth's strip because it was 'too green' and led to players passing too often into the stands because of the green seats. 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derek-adams-admits-changed-plymouths-9983356

Well, if it was good enough for Fergie...

[hk blues]

10 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

We had a similar experience with Jim McIntyre signing a load of L1/L2 dross.

Don't get me wrong - there are some good players and teams at that level but there's a lot of shite as well.

That's my Christmas ruined, cheers! 

[hk blues]

6 hours ago, FootballFan89 said:

I think Derek Adams will regret the way he came across and probably shows again why interviewing managers directly after games is not also the best idea, especially when emotions are high. 

I think it's a fucking great idea, as do most folk - solid gold entertainment as 16 pages and counting here shows.

Not so much so for the interviewee though, I'll agree.

[kennie makevin]

Is Derek Adams seriously trying to tell us that the Scottish top flight is rubbish. ? Good for him because it is.

[hk blues]

17 minutes ago, kennie makevin said:

Is Derek Adams seriously trying to tell us that the Scottish top flight is rubbish. ? Good for him because it is.

Aye, 100 x worse than the English 2nd Division.

Seems legit.