DG.Roma Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, Durnford said: That being said, for the amount we're paying, I would have hoped for a team of referee's working on each game although my next question might be are there really that amount top qualified referees in Scotland? I've heard it argued that the lower leagues are suffering from the presence of VAR because double the usual number of top level refs are needed in the Premiership, meaning there's a knock on effect with guys who really should be at League 1 or 2 doing Championship games, and Lowland or Highland league standard refs moving into Leagues 1 and 2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 2 hours ago, DiegoDiego said: I mean, that's obviously how it's being used, but if you need to digitally zoom in then it's not a "clear and obvious" error, which is how clubs were told it would be used when voted on. That’s the point, though - it could be a clear and obvious error, but the bargain basement VAR we have means you need to take longer with a poor selection of angles in order to determine that. As an example, the clearest angle that showed our penalty against St Johnstone a few weeks back was the pitchside camera beside the goal. If it had been at the other end, that angle wouldn’t have been available. Yet it would still the same incident, so the VAR would have had to take longer with poorer angles to even see what happened. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby_Doo Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 39 minutes ago, DG.Roma said: I've heard it argued that the lower leagues are suffering from the presence of VAR because double the usual number of top level refs are needed in the Premiership, meaning there's a knock on effect with guys who really should be at League 1 or 2 doing Championship games, and Lowland or Highland league standard refs moving into Leagues 1 and 2. The obvious solution I would have thought would be to redeploy refs who have recently retired to do VAR, no fitness tests to pass. Then again, SFA. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 28 minutes ago, DG.Roma said: I've heard it argued that the lower leagues are suffering from the presence of VAR because double the usual number of top level refs are needed in the Premiership, meaning there's a knock on effect with guys who really should be at League 1 or 2 doing Championship games, and Lowland or Highland league standard refs moving into Leagues 1 and 2. The referee in our game at Motherwell in December started his season in the Lowland League. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Diamond For Me Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Brian McLauchlin is doing updates from our game against Dunfermline tonight, and has managed to mention twice that VAR isn't being used. It's just an all-consuming obsession for these dullards, isn't it? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 On 04/03/2024 at 16:50, Durnford said: As far as I recall they had a whole team of professionals working in the VAR centre therefore there were obviously many eyes looking at the multiple screens but , more particularly, in Scotland as far as I am aware, there's only one qualified referee and an assistant working in the VAR room so, if the qualified referee is reviewing an incident then he cant be watching the live game. In the world cup a review could be carried out by one team whilst another watched the ongoing game. That being said, for the amount we're paying, I would have hoped for a team of referee's working on each game although my next question might be are there really that amount top qualified referees in Scotland? There are two referees working on each Premiership game - the VAR and the assistant VAR. If there is an incident flagged up then the VAR will review that while the assistant VAR continues to watch the game. They also have a replay operator working on each game who is not a qualified referee can help with the practicalities. The only difference with the World Cup is that they had three assistant VAR officials, something which is easier done when there's only one game on at a time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 On 04/03/2024 at 19:47, The Master said: The referee in our game at Motherwell in December started his season in the Lowland League. This is a bit misleading in that he had been refereeing in the lower reaches of the SPFL over the previous two seasons, and took charge of his first Championship game last season. His first game of the season was actually Elgin v Motherwell in the League Cup, though he did subsequently referee a single Lowland League game on 29th July, before the SPFL league season started. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neiljb Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 I wonder how many of Scott Brown's 126 domestic yellow cards would have been red cards in this new dawn of VAR? He had 3 straight reds which is very low for such an aggressive player. There are so many old pros moaning about VAR, but in my humble opinion it is the best change in football for more than 50 years. The arm/hand ball issue should be separate from the VAR debate. The water is muddy on that issue and it is a matter for the refs to deliver consistency on that. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 10 hours ago, A Diamond For Me said: Brian McLauchlin is doing updates from our game against Dunfermline tonight, and has managed to mention twice that VAR isn't being used. It's just an all-consuming obsession for these dullards, isn't it? Unfortunately it’s what people talk about though. Constantly. Most match threads on here will have a significant portion of post match posts dedicated to refereeing decisions. It is truly dull. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 10 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: Unfortunately it’s what people talk about though. Constantly. Most match threads on here will have a significant portion of post match posts dedicated to refereeing decisions. It is truly dull. I think it is made dull by the way we administer it, spending time looking for reasons to overturn goals for microscopic infractions. Bayern Munichs 2nd goal last night was pretty tight for offside. The decision was made in - I kid you not - about 10 seconds, no hoopla, no pish within the stadium - just the ref telling them to get on with it. Here, we would have had the pantomime of "refs finger to ear, wait, wait, wait, big screen says check for offside, 3 minutes later tell us its a goal". VAR is pish. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, Neiljb said: The arm/hand ball issue should be separate from the VAR debate. The water is muddy on that issue and it is a matter for the refs to deliver consistency on that. When the handball interpretation first came in it was totally farcical. It's not quite as problematic now that players, officials and supporters have had some time to get used to it. Of course there's still some very close calls which people are going to argue about but that was always the case Instead of dull inconclusive arguments about whether that was "ball played man" we now have dull inconclusive arguments about whether that arm was in a "natural position" VAR has made those arguments more pernickety but it would have made the old arguments more pernickety as well 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 2 hours ago, Neiljb said: The arm/hand ball issue should be separate from the VAR debate. The water is muddy on that issue and it is a matter for the refs to deliver consistency on that. You simply cannot be consistent though, it's impossible for different people to be "consistent" on an opinion-based law where every incident is slightly different. 1 hour ago, Leith Green said: I think it is made dull by the way we administer it, spending time looking for reasons to overturn goals for microscopic infractions. Bayern Munichs 2nd goal last night was pretty tight for offside. The decision was made in - I kid you not - about 10 seconds, no hoopla, no pish within the stadium - just the ref telling them to get on with it. Here, we would have had the pantomime of "refs finger to ear, wait, wait, wait, big screen says check for offside, 3 minutes later tell us its a goal". VAR is pish. They have semi-automated technology for Champions League games now, that's why it's so quick. That would cost more than most Premiership clubs' annual turnover to implement here. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, craigkillie said: They have semi-automated technology for Champions League games now, that's why it's so quick. That would cost more than most Premiership clubs' annual turnover to implement here. Thanks for that, had a wee dig and found this article which is decent - https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37631613/champions-league-welcomes-semi-automated-var-offside-all-about Sounds like they reckon its as accurate as the goal line tech, and brings the average decision time down from 70 seconds (no laughing at the back) to 25. Sounds like additional costs will be the new style cameras, and one other mason in the VAR truck. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 3 hours ago, Neiljb said: I wonder how many of Scott Brown's 126 domestic yellow cards would have been red cards in this new dawn of VAR? He had 3 straight reds which is very low for such an aggressive player. There are so many old pros moaning about VAR, but in my humble opinion it is the best change in football for more than 50 years. The arm/hand ball issue should be separate from the VAR debate. The water is muddy on that issue and it is a matter for the refs to deliver consistency on that. That is a magnificently bad take. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_F Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 On 04/03/2024 at 08:39, houston_bud said: I think that's a fair point, although we had a similar one chalked off against Hearts. The ref (Nick Walsh maybe?) let the play continue and as soon as Mandron had the ball in the bet he blew for a foul, which was then checked by VAR, who stuck with the decision. And the following Tuesday a Rangers player did worse to a Livvy player in a similar areas of the pitch and the goal stood - VAR official - Nick Walsh. Like pre-VAR, it's still far too often about the officials and the teams involved. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 (edited) 2 hours ago, Leith Green said: Thanks for that, had a wee dig and found this article which is decent - https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37631613/champions-league-welcomes-semi-automated-var-offside-all-about Sounds like they reckon its as accurate as the goal line tech, and brings the average decision time down from 70 seconds (no laughing at the back) to 25. Sounds like additional costs will be the new style cameras, and one other mason in the VAR truck. Also a special proprietary ball with a chip inside it, and the software to do the prediction. Edited March 6 by craigkillie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 5 hours ago, Neiljb said: I wonder how many of Scott Brown's 126 domestic yellow cards would have been red cards in this new dawn of VAR? He had 3 straight reds which is very low for such an aggressive player. There are so many old pros moaning about VAR, but in my humble opinion it is the best change in football for more than 50 years. The arm/hand ball issue should be separate from the VAR debate. The water is muddy on that issue and it is a matter for the refs to deliver consistency on that. With VAR, his three straight reds would have been given as yellows and VAR would have ignored them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Presumably if Brown was being saved by generous refereeing rather than just being smart enough to know where the line is, he would have received loads of red cards in the 191 games he played in Europe and for Scotland? Answer: No he didn't, he was only ever sent off once in these games despite over 50 yellow cards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 7 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Presumably if Brown was being saved by generous refereeing rather than just being smart enough to know where the line is, he would have received loads of red cards in the 191 games he played in Europe and for Scotland? Answer: No he didn't, he was only ever sent off once in these games despite over 50 yellow cards. It's also quite possible he modified his approach in those games. A very different dynamic to playing for the old firm. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, craigkillie said: Also a special proprietary ball with a chip inside it, and the software to do the prediction. The chip inside the ball was only used at the World Cup (and will be used at the Euros). The semi-automated offside technology used in the Champions League only uses cameras and the underlying software/AI. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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