Thought I would pop my head in to say "Hello" as we will more than likely be seeing you next year.

[PossilYM]

If Stranraer had consecutive relegations they could play their own reserve team in the Sosfl.

[Deanburn Dave]

Far more likely PossilYM is if Stranraer dropped into the Lowland League that within 3 years they wouldn't have the money to operate a B team in the SoS. 

[FairWeatherFan]

6 minutes ago, Deanburn Dave said:

Far more likely PossilYM is if Stranraer dropped into the Lowland League that within 3 years they wouldn't have the money to operate a B team in the SoS. 

I could see that happening, but I saw it mentioned that the main club doesn't really put much money into the South side. Maybe more that the reserves would be cannibalised considering the player market they'd be operating under outside the SPFL.

[MrFizz]

9 hours ago, PossilYM said:

If Stranraer had consecutive relegations they could play their own reserve team in the Sosfl.

I didn't think that was allowed? Might be wrong though. It really would be a doomsday scenario. Unless we could wangle our way into the WoSFL instead.

[An Absolute Imposter]

2 hours ago, MrFizz said:

I didn't think that was allowed? Might be wrong though. It really would be a doomsday scenario. Unless we could wangle our way into the WoSFL instead.

You would need to apply for election to the WOS and join at Div 4 if my info is correct.

But, the WOS is full at the moment anyway at 80 clubs.

[GordonS]

On 07/04/2024 at 20:30, An Absolute Imposter said:

You would need to apply for election to the WOS and join at Div 4 if my info is correct.

But, the WOS is full at the moment anyway at 80 clubs.

Do LL teams not nominate which league they would be relegated into, and that's where they go? I don't think the pyramid rules would allow WoSFL to reject a club coming down from the LL, they certainly couldn't reject someone like Caledonian Braves. 

We're maybe getting a tad ahead of ourselves, relegating Stranraer into tier 6, but at some point it's probably going to happen to a former SPFL club.

[Burnieman]

36 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Do LL teams not nominate which league they would be relegated into, and that's where they go? I don't think the pyramid rules would allow WoSFL to reject a club coming down from the LL, they certainly couldn't reject someone like Caledonian Braves. 

We're maybe getting a tad ahead of ourselves, relegating Stranraer into tier 6, but at some point it's probably going to happen to a former SPFL club.

I believe at the 4 leagues meetings (LL, WoS, EoS, SoS) they agree where each club will go in the event of relegation, not sure how much input the clubs have themselves or whether they have the right of appeal. 

We could get to squeeky bum time for former SPFL clubs as soon as next season if the HL Champ win the play-off, that almost certainly puts both Gretna and Edin Uni down, so for next season it would get a lot tighter at the bottom than ever before, no stick-on certainties for the drop and the team coming up from tier 6 will be competitive.

[An Absolute Imposter]

9 hours ago, GordonS said:

Do LL teams not nominate which league they would be relegated into, and that's where they go? I don't think the pyramid rules would allow WoSFL to reject a club coming down from the LL, they certainly couldn't reject someone like Caledonian Braves. 

We're maybe getting a tad ahead of ourselves, relegating Stranraer into tier 6, but at some point it's probably going to happen to a former SPFL club.

I have no inside knowledge, so don't take what I say as fact.

As Burnieman says the league's have what I understand are discussions about this preseason, and each club informed where they would go if relegated. 

With Gretna and Dalbeattie it appears quite straightforward, they are both in D&G are are members of the SOS Association or whatever its called.  

Caley Braves would be interesting as they still have their South membership and indeed are the holders of the Southern Counties FA trophy. There is a precedent with Bonnyton moving to the WOS, albeit it at inception and going straight in at Tier 6, much to the annoyance of quite a few in the WOS.

This SOS, WOS debate will not go away until an amalgamation of both leagues happens, if it ever does.

Could happen sooner than later re Stranraer, if they drop out of SPFL they will struggle financially and in attracting playing staff to the club.

[Ginaro]

On 07/04/2024 at 20:30, An Absolute Imposter said:

On 07/04/2024 at 18:15, MrFizz said:

 

You would need to apply for election to the WOS and join at Div 4 if my info is correct.

But, the WOS is full at the moment anyway at 80 clubs.

West area clubs in the LL would drop down into the WOS Premier (and would be accommodated even if it meant 81 clubs). Technically the wording rules out Caley Braves from the WOS due to their previous SOS membership but I'm sure they'd be allowed in given they are in Lanarkshire.

WOS rule 15. A Club relegated from the SLFL that is a) based within agreed geographical boundary of the League, and 

b) was previously a member of the League or a member of the SLFL at the time of the formation of the League will automatically become a full member of the League and shall play in the Premier Division.

Any clubs relegated from the SLFL that was previously a member of any other comparable league shall not be eligible for membership of the League.

[An Absolute Imposter]

8 hours ago, Ginaro said:

West area clubs in the LL would drop down into the WOS Premier (and would be accommodated even if it meant 81 clubs). Technically the wording rules out Caley Braves from the WOS due to their previous SOS membership but I'm sure they'd be allowed in given they are in Lanarkshire.

WOS rule 15. A Club relegated from the SLFL that is a) based within agreed geographical boundary of the League, and 

b) was previously a member of the League or a member of the SLFL at the time of the formation of the League will automatically become a full member of the League and shall play in the Premier Division.

Any clubs relegated from the SLFL that was previously a member of any other comparable league shall not be eligible for membership of the League.

You'd like to think common sense would prevail. But, this is the WOSFL we are talking about and the term 'batshit crazy' springs to mind. It is good that it is thrashed out before season starts to avoid any shenanigans.

Hopefully Braves don't finish in relegation spot or spots anytime soon; other than their name don't have any negativity towards them. Unlike they bloody nomads perched at the rock.

[FairWeatherFan]

Braves are relegated to the WoSFL. Its been asked multiple times since the WoSFL came into existence. They were a member of the SLFL when the WoSFL was formed. Their status as a former SoSFL doesn't really apply. The wording around that is more to prevent a future SoSFL/EoSFL club getting promoted to the Lowland and being relegated to the WoSFL based on geography.

[Peechy]

On 09/04/2024 at 07:44, An Absolute Imposter said:

I have no inside knowledge, so don't take what I say as fact.

As Burnieman says the league's have what I understand are discussions about this preseason, and each club informed where they would go if relegated. 

With Gretna and Dalbeattie it appears quite straightforward, they are both in D&G are are members of the SOS Association or whatever its called.  

Caley Braves would be interesting as they still have their South membership and indeed are the holders of the Southern Counties FA trophy. There is a precedent with Bonnyton moving to the WOS, albeit it at inception and going straight in at Tier 6, much to the annoyance of quite a few in the WOS.

This SOS, WOS debate will not go away until an amalgamation of both leagues happens, if it ever does.

Could happen sooner than later re Stranraer, if they drop out of SPFL they will struggle financially and in attracting playing staff to the club.

Hi I have no knowledge of the ins and outs of this but find it interesting and intriguing.  I was under the assumption  that every team in tier 5. (Highland & Lowland leagues) once relegated  are designated to a league due only by location in tier 6 ?  As the comments by the lad Burnieman that agreement has been made of where clubs should be playing when relegated sounds as if location isn’t the only factor.  I thought it was the SFA and or the SPFL would decide location for every team or be involved in these discussion with the Highland and lowland leagues..

is there boundary lines for each area or league associations ?   And if not,  how would the leagues decide where a team goes?.      It seems a big headache for everyone involved and most of us don’t realise the amount that has to be sorted in the background when we’re only just wanting to watch our team play and win. .

[An Absolute Imposter]

29 minutes ago, Peechy said:

Hi I have no knowledge of the ins and outs of this but find it interesting and intriguing.  I was under the assumption  that every team in tier 5. (Highland & Lowland leagues) once relegated  are designated to a league due only by location in tier 6 ?  As the comments by the lad Burnieman that agreement has been made of where clubs should be playing when relegated sounds as if location isn’t the only factor.  I thought it was the SFA and or the SPFL would decide location for every team or be involved in these discussion with the Highland and lowland leagues..

is there boundary lines for each area or league associations ?   And if not,  how would the leagues decide where a team goes?.      It seems a big headache for everyone involved and most of us don’t realise the amount that has to be sorted in the background when we’re only just wanting to watch our team play and win. .

We have an added problem in the West and South West of having 2 leagues at Tier 6. 

The traditional SOS League have been in the pyramid since inception and were the defacto league for any team West of Stirling, Falkirk down to the Borders. It is still in the SOSFL constitution that any club in D&G, Lanarkshire, Ayrshire, Glasgow area can apply for membership; see Glasgow Wellington carry on from last season.

Gretna in fact were never a South club and were members of EOS at startup. They were refused entry to SOSFL in 2009 or so. 

The fun began when a WOS league was conceived just before lockdown; for me the SOS were happy to not rock the boat about any boundary queries, and the WOSFL was born or reborn, slotting in beside the EOSFL and the SOSFL at Tier 6 and below.

Most clubs were from the old SJFA West Region. A few amateur clubs from Glasgow joined; Drumchapel and St Cadoc's in addition to Glasgow University 1st team, who joined up in fear of losing their historical SFA license if they remained outside the pyramid. Also, Bonnyton (Kilmarnock based) were currently in the SOSFL at Tier 6 and asked to join the new WOSFL, they did so at Tier 6, which I believe ruffled a few feathers in the West.

Roll forward to 2022 and a serving member of the SOSFL joins the WOSFL for season 2022/23. But, just to add to it they leave the South as a Tier 6 club and join the West at Tier 10, the bottom rung on the ladder, this club is Threave Rovers, from Castle Douglas bang in the middle of the Galloway a few miles from the south coast of Solway.

Now to add to this saga both Threave Rovers and Caley Braves, although designated WOSFL clubs are still members of the Southern Counties FA and take part in the Cup competition for such members. 

Now, this is not gospel so don't quote me on it, but my understanding is that if a South designated club i.e. Gretna or Dalbeattie Star, or even Stranraer if they fall off the cliff, were being relegated from Tier 5 (Lowland). That if they wanted to join the West would have to do a Threave and tag on at the bottom, as they are not deemed as a WOSFL club.

Of course I could be talking pish, as I say I am not involved with any club or association, just a fan who attends both WOSFL and SOSFL games. My info is based on talks and comments I have heard been told at different clubs and asking/listening to stuff on different forums.

It is interesting and entertaining stuff. To be fair to all, the juggling about by some clubs has not appeared to cause any great disharmony either in the South or West leagues.

Bonnyton seem settled and a part of the furniture; as for Threave, probably down to them joining at the bottom, they are after just shy of 2 seasons accepted as a WOSFL club and have had zero negativity coming their way from any clubs in the WOSFL, in fact ask any club who have visited Meadow Park and they are seen as a welcome addition.

If Gretna occupy a relegation spot I can add them to one of my SOSFL destinations for next season, unless they throw a curve ball and ask to join the WOSFL.

The devil inside me wishes they would, purely for the entertainment value.

If Caley Braves are ever relegated themselves, there is still a part of me that feels there is an element in the WOSFL that would try to block them entering at Tier 6, the WOSFL constitution does make mention of not accepting a club that has not played in the WOSFL previously. But Bonnyton did enter at Tier 6 at startup so there is a precedent there.

Anyway hope you find this interesting. Drop into the West forum every now and then it is very entertaining and never fails to make me laugh and forget ny troubles.

[MrFizz]

8 hours ago, An Absolute Imposter said:

We have an added problem in the West and South West of having 2 leagues at Tier 6. 

The traditional SOS League have been in the pyramid since inception and were the defacto league for any team West of Stirling, Falkirk down to the Borders. It is still in the SOSFL constitution that any club in D&G, Lanarkshire, Ayrshire, Glasgow area can apply for membership; see Glasgow Wellington carry on from last season.

Gretna in fact were never a South club and were members of EOS at startup. They were refused entry to SOSFL in 2009 or so. 

The fun began when a WOS league was conceived just before lockdown; for me the SOS were happy to not rock the boat about any boundary queries, and the WOSFL was born or reborn, slotting in beside the EOSFL and the SOSFL at Tier 6 and below.

Most clubs were from the old SJFA West Region. A few amateur clubs from Glasgow joined; Drumchapel and St Cadoc's in addition to Glasgow University 1st team, who joined up in fear of losing their historical SFA license if they remained outside the pyramid. Also, Bonnyton (Kilmarnock based) were currently in the SOSFL at Tier 6 and asked to join the new WOSFL, they did so at Tier 6, which I believe ruffled a few feathers in the West.

Roll forward to 2022 and a serving member of the SOSFL joins the WOSFL for season 2022/23. But, just to add to it they leave the South as a Tier 6 club and join the West at Tier 10, the bottom rung on the ladder, this club is Threave Rovers, from Castle Douglas bang in the middle of the Galloway a few miles from the south coast of Solway.

Now to add to this saga both Threave Rovers and Caley Braves, although designated WOSFL clubs are still members of the Southern Counties FA and take part in the Cup competition for such members. 

Now, this is not gospel so don't quote me on it, but my understanding is that if a South designated club i.e. Gretna or Dalbeattie Star, or even Stranraer if they fall off the cliff, were being relegated from Tier 5 (Lowland). That if they wanted to join the West would have to do a Threave and tag on at the bottom, as they are not deemed as a WOSFL club.

Of course I could be talking pish, as I say I am not involved with any club or association, just a fan who attends both WOSFL and SOSFL games. My info is based on talks and comments I have heard been told at different clubs and asking/listening to stuff on different forums.

It is interesting and entertaining stuff. To be fair to all, the juggling about by some clubs has not appeared to cause any great disharmony either in the South or West leagues.

Bonnyton seem settled and a part of the furniture; as for Threave, probably down to them joining at the bottom, they are after just shy of 2 seasons accepted as a WOSFL club and have had zero negativity coming their way from any clubs in the WOSFL, in fact ask any club who have visited Meadow Park and they are seen as a welcome addition.

If Gretna occupy a relegation spot I can add them to one of my SOSFL destinations for next season, unless they throw a curve ball and ask to join the WOSFL.

The devil inside me wishes they would, purely for the entertainment value.

If Caley Braves are ever relegated themselves, there is still a part of me that feels there is an element in the WOSFL that would try to block them entering at Tier 6, the WOSFL constitution does make mention of not accepting a club that has not played in the WOSFL previously. But Bonnyton did enter at Tier 6 at startup so there is a precedent there.

Anyway hope you find this interesting. Drop into the West forum every now and then it is very entertaining and never fails to make me laugh and forget ny troubles.

I do drop into the WoSFL forum now and then, but i'm never quite sure if they all actually hate each other, or just on the wind up.

[jimbaxters]

8 hours ago, MrFizz said:

I do drop into the WoSFL forum now and then, but i'm never quite sure if they all actually hate each other, or just on the wind up.

All bantz, ya dick 

[Peechy]

20 hours ago, An Absolute Imposter said:

We have an added problem in the West and South West of having 2 leagues at Tier 6. 

The traditional SOS League have been in the pyramid since inception and were the defacto league for any team West of Stirling, Falkirk down to the Borders. It is still in the SOSFL constitution that any club in D&G, Lanarkshire, Ayrshire, Glasgow area can apply for membership; see Glasgow Wellington carry on from last season.

Gretna in fact were never a South club and were members of EOS at startup. They were refused entry to SOSFL in 2009 or so. 

The fun began when a WOS league was conceived just before lockdown; for me the SOS were happy to not rock the boat about any boundary queries, and the WOSFL was born or reborn, slotting in beside the EOSFL and the SOSFL at Tier 6 and below.

Most clubs were from the old SJFA West Region. A few amateur clubs from Glasgow joined; Drumchapel and St Cadoc's in addition to Glasgow University 1st team, who joined up in fear of losing their historical SFA license if they remained outside the pyramid. Also, Bonnyton (Kilmarnock based) were currently in the SOSFL at Tier 6 and asked to join the new WOSFL, they did so at Tier 6, which I believe ruffled a few feathers in the West.

Roll forward to 2022 and a serving member of the SOSFL joins the WOSFL for season 2022/23. But, just to add to it they leave the South as a Tier 6 club and join the West at Tier 10, the bottom rung on the ladder, this club is Threave Rovers, from Castle Douglas bang in the middle of the Galloway a few miles from the south coast of Solway.

Now to add to this saga both Threave Rovers and Caley Braves, although designated WOSFL clubs are still members of the Southern Counties FA and take part in the Cup competition for such members. 

Now, this is not gospel so don't quote me on it, but my understanding is that if a South designated club i.e. Gretna or Dalbeattie Star, or even Stranraer if they fall off the cliff, were being relegated from Tier 5 (Lowland). That if they wanted to join the West would have to do a Threave and tag on at the bottom, as they are not deemed as a WOSFL club.

Of course I could be talking pish, as I say I am not involved with any club or association, just a fan who attends both WOSFL and SOSFL games. My info is based on talks and comments I have heard been told at different clubs and asking/listening to stuff on different forums.

It is interesting and entertaining stuff. To be fair to all, the juggling about by some clubs has not appeared to cause any great disharmony either in the South or West leagues.

Bonnyton seem settled and a part of the furniture; as for Threave, probably down to them joining at the bottom, they are after just shy of 2 seasons accepted as a WOSFL club and have had zero negativity coming their way from any clubs in the WOSFL, in fact ask any club who have visited Meadow Park and they are seen as a welcome addition.

If Gretna occupy a relegation spot I can add them to one of my SOSFL destinations for next season, unless they throw a curve ball and ask to join the WOSFL.

The devil inside me wishes they would, purely for the entertainment value.

If Caley Braves are ever relegated themselves, there is still a part of me that feels there is an element in the WOSFL that would try to block them entering at Tier 6, the WOSFL constitution does make mention of not accepting a club that has not played in the WOSFL previously. But Bonnyton did enter at Tier 6 at startup so there is a precedent there.

Anyway hope you find this interesting. Drop into the West forum every now and then it is very entertaining and never fails to make me laugh and forget ny troubles.

Brilliant reply and explanation but after the first two paragraphs my head was sore trying to take it all in

ffs more twists than the film ‘Clue’..

Everything sounds sound but unsure why Threave are in the WOSFL in regards to location and if they have aspirations to go higher was the SODFL not a better chance of getting to the play offs. (Confusing for me, not just the reasons why Threave wanted into the West, what was the reasons by the west clubs why they were voted in?).   

Read some of the posts about the Glasgow Wellington team, wtf is that all about?

Everything else can see how it panned out that way but those two I’m unsure what the thinkings are.

 

Out with all this, the biggest thing for me is how Clyde are off the bottom, for months and months I thought they were down but wow, they have pulled it out of the bag, still in it but with momentum I think they will avoid the playoff. 

[An Absolute Imposter]

9 hours ago, Peechy said:

Brilliant reply and explanation but after the first two paragraphs my head was sore trying to take it all in

ffs more twists than the film ‘Clue’..

Everything sounds sound but unsure why Threave are in the WOSFL in regards to location and if they have aspirations to go higher was the SODFL not a better chance of getting to the play offs. (Confusing for me, not just the reasons why Threave wanted into the West, what was the reasons by the west clubs why they were voted in?).   

Read some of the posts about the Glasgow Wellington team, wtf is that all about?

Everything else can see how it panned out that way but those two I’m unsure what the thinkings are.

 

Out with all this, the biggest thing for me is how Clyde are off the bottom, for months and months I thought they were down but wow, they have pulled it out of the bag, still in it but with momentum I think they will avoid the playoff. 

The Glasgow Wellington one is fairly straightforward; they are an internet club only started a few years back and saw the SOSFL as a soft touch and a quick way of increasing their profile and possibly sneaking into the Lowland League. Fortunately, their rouse was transparent enough that their application was turned down and no repeat application this season.

Threave is an interesting story; I attend games at Meadow Park quite regularly, apart from an enforced break Oct thru to March, and have talks with players and committee at games.

The geography question is quite interesting as both SOSFL and WOSFL seem to cover almost the same geographical area in their constitution, if I am mistaken someone will correct me.

Threave were very close to applying to WOSFL at its inception in 2020 like Bonnyton, but felt it would be a bad move playing wise as they were going through a slight transition with playing staff at the time. Was also hinted that things were not to the clubs satisfaction off the field and they wanted to address that first. No idea what if any of these issues could have been. A Fast forward to 2022 and they felt the time was right. 

Their acceptance into the WOSFL seemed smooth with no dissenting voices as far as I know. I feel because they entered at Tier 10 no existing West club was adversely affected. The feedback from virtually all clubs they have played in the West has been positive and they appear to be seen as a welcome addition.

There also seems to be no animosity from the SOSFL as Threave are still members of the Southern Counties FA and take part in some cup competitions.

As a club they don't see Lowland League as their level, or even the West Premier in the short term. They want to grow as a club on and off the park at a steady pace and reach whatever is their level steadily rather than the massive leap SOS to LL would be. Or to West Premier would have been.

As can be seen from results both last year in Div 4 and this season there is work to be done on the pitch, which they are constantly reviewing as the move from South to West was quite a departure for a number of the players.

Off field, the set up at Meadow Park is one of the best in non league. Spectator facilities are excellent; a seated stand area, a covered enclosure and an ever expanding social club with extensive matchday packages and hospitality and excellent views of the pitch. The ground itself is in a small industrial estate and affords itself to expansion on all four sides if required. 

They are an example of what the pyramid setup is about. They are a club on the up and if those in charge 'keep their heeds' they will be a success.

As for this years club 42, I feel it might be good for Bonnyrigg if they drop back down to the Lowland; they have struggled on the playing side both seasons from reports. I don't attend any games above tier 6, a personal choice, so just going on match reports and feedback on fans forums. The consensus being that a number of their players are struggling at SPFL level. Drop back to Lowland and improve playing staff more organically, their rise from EOS to SPFL was pretty rapid. Maybe too rapid.

Anyways nice to have a civil chat for once. Always happy to be an unofficial spokesperson for Threave and all clubs in D&G.

The SOSFL gets a bad press from many sectors, but a number of the clubs are well run by local volunteers, majority of players are locals who play without any 'incentives' and the clubs are a part of the community, being heavily involved with local youth clubs and keeping football to the forefront in the forgotten county.

No Santa's down here to come in drowning us all in fake gifts and promises.

[Cowden Cowboy]

What happens to Albion Rovers if they were to be relegated?  
 

West rules read as follows

 

Any club(s) relegated from the SLFL who are 

a) based within agreed geographical boundary of the League, and

b) was previously a member of the League or a member of the SLFL at the time of the formation of the League

will automatically become a full member of the League and shall play in the Premier Division. Any clubs relegated from the SLFL that was previously a member of any other comparable league shall not be eligible for membership of the League.

[Spyro]

Did you get to the part where we delved deep into the bin collections of Harthill, and using Google earth measurments to decide where Luncarty should go? Shit got intense

 

[An Absolute Imposter]

18 hours ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

What happens to Albion Rovers if they were to be relegated?  
 

West rules read as follows

 

Any club(s) relegated from the SLFL who are 

a) based within agreed geographical boundary of the League, and

b) was previously a member of the League or a member of the SLFL at the time of the formation of the League

will automatically become a full member of the League and shall play in the Premier Division. Any clubs relegated from the SLFL that was previously a member of any other comparable league shall not be eligible for membership of the League.

They could start their own wee league; it's the in-thing at the moment in the wild and wonderful West.