vikingTON Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) 7 hours ago, picklish said: The bottom line/shitting money - you are treating the economy like household finances. The 'bottom line' isn't a real macro economic measure. It's you failing to understand how a national economy works. Your Truss/Kwarteng point is both neither about 'the bottom line' nor is related to the issue. It's a very clear example of a straw man. You've merely randomly picked an event about economics and made a false comparison. But if you believe in 'the bottom line' then it logically follows that you should also believe in 'taking from one expenditure to give to another'. So you talk about resource allocation, but argue against altering defence expenditure. It's incoherent, your point makes no sense. Either it's about balancing the books or it isn't. Which is it? Identifying overall limitations to a government's budget and competition between departments/policies ≠ 'treating the economy like household finances'. At no point did I "argue against altering defence expenditure" - either provide direct evidence for that, or retract your straw man claim. Quote Finally, you get into whataboutery. Are there other measure to reduce poverty? Yes. Is this one? Also yes. Saying that 'my way of reducing poverty is better than yours' isn't a useful contribution. It's a failure to engage with the proposal. Ultimately, your typically issue, evident through most of your contributions, is that you decide an issue in your mind, and then defend it without looking at the bigger picture, or believing that it may be wrong. This is called anchoring bias. It's only 'whataboutery' if you don't understand politics beyond the stage of student union posturing. We are not discussing some Green New Deal proposal that claims to have a significant multiplier effect: it is quite simply increasing or reducing benefits to certain houesholds, at the taxpayer's exspense. Which leads us to some very straightforward questions for decision-making: Would lifting a two-child benefit cap reduce overall levels of poverty? Yes. Is it the most effective/efficient policy - to reduce poverty for the largest number of people in society? Certainly not. Would the costs of paying additional benefits be better used elsewhere to deal with the myriad other social and economic issues impacting the UK - with the potential for an actual return on that investment (for example, towards sorting the bin fire that is social care, with knock-on consequences for the NHS)? Undoubtedly yes too. And lastly - here's where the politics really comes in - would lifting the benefit cap for large families be the 'fairest' policy in terms of alleviating poverty in the UK? In my view, no it wouldn't. That you disagree with some of the above statements do not make them straw men or 'whataboutery' = as opposed to you literally making things up which is. Edited July 26 by vikingTON 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 23 hours ago, Cheese said: There's anywhere between 500,000 and 1 million properties sitting empty in the UK at any one time. Including around 250,000 long term empty properties. So it's less of a supply/demand thing and more of a landlord thing. There are more empty buildings in London than buildings (full stop) in Liverpool. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Looks like Labour are going to introduce taxes in the autumn that were not in their manifesto. Good news in more ways than one imo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 7 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Looks like Labour are going to introduce taxes in the autumn that were not in their manifesto. Good news in more ways than one imo. Hold on, they were saying just the other day that removing the 2 child cap wasn't in there manifesto so that makes it ok to keep it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 18 minutes ago, doulikefish said: Hold on, they were saying just the other day that removing the 2 child cap wasn't in there manifesto so that makes it ok to keep it Exactly my point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 3 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Exactly my point. I also believe that the 20 billion black hole that wasn't true is now also going to be mentioned 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKMAN Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 So the £20B black hole that Labour repeatedly insisted was lies, turns out to be true. Who'd have thought it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Rachel Reeves has spent months practising her shocked face in order to announce the things she read in the OBR report months ago as new information. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 2 hours ago, MONKMAN said: So the £20B black hole that Labour repeatedly insisted was lies, turns out to be true. Who'd have thought it. Anas "read my lying lips" Sarwar? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 This is classic Labour. They lied in 2014, lost dozens of seats afterwards for a decade.......and here we are 3 weeks in and they are caught out in yet another lie. Never mind though, they have a massive majority, nothing to see here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 4 hours ago, MONKMAN said: So the £20B black hole that Labour repeatedly insisted was lies, turns out to be true. Who'd have thought it. I’d think it. The Tories have totally fucked up the country* so a financial black hole of that magnitude really shouldn’t come as a shock. The rotational nature of U.K. politics under FPTP means that it will all be forgotten about by the next time they have a chance of power; 5 years or 10 if Starmer is really ‘lucky’. * does not excuse Labour’s ignorance or lies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 8 hours ago, MONKMAN said: So the £20B black hole that Labour repeatedly insisted was lies, turns out to be true. Who'd have thought it. I’m sure @Jedi2 will be along in a minute to explain that it’s not £20bn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 More annoyed at the Labour MPs who said stuff like "I'll stand up to Starmer" and the likes tbh. Everyone knew they wouldn't, but they still hoovered up the votes anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 @Jedi2 was correct. It wasn't £18bn. He didn't mention that it was more than that though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 6 hours ago, Rosey1889 said: Obsessed. Remember to reply from the correct login instead of your next burner account 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 Who's the sock puppet? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 51 minutes ago, Rosey1889 said: Obsessed and bullying the poor lad. Typical SNP. All those years in power and further away from your goal than ever. Hilarious stuff. Keep deluding yourselves though. But @Jedi2, you seem riled. Why so? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Steele Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 9 hours ago, Rosey1889 said: Obsessed. 1 hour ago, Rosey1889 said: Obsessed and bullying the poor lad. Typical SNP. All those years in power and further away from your goal than ever. Hilarious stuff. Keep deluding yourselves though. 59 minutes ago, Rosey1889 said: Obsessed. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Who's the sock puppet? Christ knows how they have the time..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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