Southport stabbings

[dirty dingus]

The right wingers are obviously using the British lads skin colour as a red rag to a bull saying anyone who isn't white has potential to murder whilst obviously forgetting about the white ex army guy that killed 3 folk with a crossbow the other week. They have a slogan now with the hijacking of the Southport incident and "save our kids" will no doubt be getting belted out by drunk and drugged up hooligans next week as the new season in England's lower leagues start. Can see disorder outside many grounds as it's a suitable gathering point for football hooligans, neo nazis, twitter/facebook maws and stella swigging village idiots in fleece tracksuits.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Another night of ”demonstrations” according to the BBC I see.

I suppose Huw Edwards was just a WhatsApp enthusiast in reality.

[Michael W]

10 hours ago, Albertlegend said:

Are these clowns not the same mob that were hero worshipping the police when they jumped on the guys head in Manchester airport? 
 

this week they are burning police cars!!! 

Same as everything else these days. Police dealing with you = oppression, fascism, disgrace etc. Police dealing with people you don't like = heroes. 

[velo army]

On 31/07/2024 at 11:59, Freedom Farter said:

I haven't read the whole thread so if someone has already made a point similar to this, apologies.

For young men committing crimes like this, maybe under 25 to put an arbitrary age number on it, and certainly for young men living with their parents, there needs to at least be a discussion about what the people close to the criminal were doing. There are parents who are harbouring a son they know is a threat to society but they do nothing about it because he's their son. I don't know if that was the case here but it certainly is the case often. Sometimes I'd say that conspiracy of inaction extends beyond just the parents. Whatever the immediate social circle of these dangerous young men is, we need to create a culture where folk who know this man is a potential threat come forward with that information before the criminal violence happens. What form that takes, I don't know. I obviously don't mean turn up at a police station and just say at the front desk "my son is going to murder a load of children" like its Minority Report. But there should be some mechanism where folk can notify the state of a potential threat, social work or whatever, so intervention happens. Then as a wider culture, we need to champion folk for doing that, for coming forward with their fears about a threat posed by a family member.

There is an issue with masculinity generally and others have pointed to the lack of initiation into manhood that our boys receive. Other cultures get it and formalise it in rituals. The young men in our culture (and by that I mean modern industrialised cultures, rather than white ones, as this seems to be an issue in Islamic cultures too) get essentially left to their own devices. Initiation involves the active intervention of older men to teach the younger men the realities of being a man. This is often through stories, work and trials. We do this in informal ways in our culture but the examples are rare. There are also issues of role modelling masculinity, with fathers often clueless and ridiculous figures in the home which is dominated both practically and culturally by the mother. Sons learn that their fathers won't protect them so shut down emotionally and seek masculine community elsewhere. Recently that meant gangs or fraternities. Post pandemic with the online world we see the lonely desire for a strong protector figure distorted and projected onto Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan. The natural desire to separate from the world of women (recognised in other cultures by staging such initiation rites at aged 12) also becomes repressed and distorted into what we now call misogyny, leading to violation of the bodies of others (of all genders). 

Anyway, what I mean to really say is that the problem you describe can't be solved by law enforcement. We need to look at society as a whole body and realise that what you describe (young male violence) is a symptom of a society whose structures themselves are dysfunctional to our mental, physical and spiritual health. 

In practical terms we need smarter intervention. There are organisations out there that address the problems you describe. Band of Brothers is great, but haven't been able to find traction north of Manchester (I keep reaching out to them, but they're massively underfunded). They provide initiation and mentoring to young offenders or young people at risk of offending. It's a wonderful organisation run by really fine men. 

I think there are definitely issues in Islamic cultures and African cultures which complicate such interventions due to external colonial narratives and internal cultural ones, but ultimately human beings are the same and the young men of their culture want to be loved and held in a way that they haven't been. 

[Freedom Farter]

5 hours ago, velo army said:

There is an issue with masculinity generally and others have pointed to the lack of initiation into manhood that our boys receive. Other cultures get it and formalise it in rituals. The young men in our culture (and by that I mean modern industrialised cultures, rather than white ones, as this seems to be an issue in Islamic cultures too) get essentially left to their own devices. Initiation involves the active intervention of older men to teach the younger men the realities of being a man. This is often through stories, work and trials. We do this in informal ways in our culture but the examples are rare. There are also issues of role modelling masculinity, with fathers often clueless and ridiculous figures in the home which is dominated both practically and culturally by the mother. Sons learn that their fathers won't protect them so shut down emotionally and seek masculine community elsewhere. Recently that meant gangs or fraternities. Post pandemic with the online world we see the lonely desire for a strong protector figure distorted and projected onto Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan. The natural desire to separate from the world of women (recognised in other cultures by staging such initiation rites at aged 12) also becomes repressed and distorted into what we now call misogyny, leading to violation of the bodies of others (of all genders). 

Anyway, what I mean to really say is that the problem you describe can't be solved by law enforcement. We need to look at society as a whole body and realise that what you describe (young male violence) is a symptom of a society whose structures themselves are dysfunctional to our mental, physical and spiritual health. 

In practical terms we need smarter intervention. There are organisations out there that address the problems you describe. Band of Brothers is great, but haven't been able to find traction north of Manchester (I keep reaching out to them, but they're massively underfunded). They provide initiation and mentoring to young offenders or young people at risk of offending. It's a wonderful organisation run by really fine men. 

I think there are definitely issues in Islamic cultures and African cultures which complicate such interventions due to external colonial narratives and internal cultural ones, but ultimately human beings are the same and the young men of their culture want to be loved and held in a way that they haven't been. 

I compare these Southport murders to the Plymouth murders in 2021. In that case, the mother reportedly did all she could to alert authorities:

https://www.devonlive.com/news/uk-world-news/plymouth-gunman-spent-time-remote-5786757

 

Prevent weren't interested and there was no suitable alternative, so nothing was done.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-64318699

 

So I do think there is a gap in the state needing filled for once things are at the acute stage.

I agree with all you put regarding how our cultural milieu contributes environmental factors. I'm glad you mention misogyny because I've been miffed why that's been missing from the media coverage. Rudakubana targeted exclusively females, girls and women (the male victim was only attacked after trying to intervene). I'd loosely group this crime with the already mentioned Plymouth murders, Alek Minassian's massacre in Canada and also the murder of Euradyce Dixon in Australia. Many other recent examples abroad too, at least in the anglosphere.  There's no evidence yet that Rudakubana was motivated by the ideological misogyny of Jake Davison (Plymouth) or Minassian so I'm only loosely drawing analogies here.  I'd argue, though, that a subconscious misogyny could've easily been at play with Rudakubana. 

 

[Jambomo]

2 hours ago, Freedom Farter said:

Rudakubana targeted exclusively females, girls and women (the male victim was only attacked after trying to intervene). I'd loosely group this crime with the already mentioned Plymouth murders, Alek Minassian's massacre in Canada and also the murder of Euradyce Dixon in Australia. Many other recent examples abroad too, at least in the anglosphere. 

I think it depends on why he chose to go to that dance studio. Did he go there because he knew some one there etc?

It’s not surprising that the dance class mainly consisted of girls and so that if he chose to kill people they would be girls. That may have been his motivation or it may have been a coincidence through choosing it for some other reason. 

[Freedom Farter]

2 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

I think it depends on why he chose to go to that dance studio. Did he go there because he knew some one there etc?

It’s not surprising that the dance class mainly consisted of girls and so that if he chose to kill people they would be girls. That may have been his motivation or it may have been a coincidence through choosing it for some other reason. 

Sure, there's also that girls are put in the "children" category before the "females" category so its natural to also have viewed this as an attack on children, primarily.

[sparky88]

We keep on being told that the folk who set fire to the holiday inn aren't the far right. If the far right aren't setting fire to hotels containing asylum seekers surely they are dropping the ball and an internal enquiry is needed? 

[Jacksgranda]

3 jailed - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy8497l7dx8t

[Scary Bear]

5 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

3 jailed - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy8497l7dx8t

I thought the jails were full. If they make an example of a few more, where are they putting them all?

It’s a surprise to me that there are so many further demonstrations planned. 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

4 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

 demonstrations

 

[welshbairn]

22 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

I thought the jails were full. If they make an example of a few more, where are they putting them all?

It’s a surprise to me that there are so many further demonstrations planned. 

They're letting all the pedos out to make room for arr lads, innit.

[19QOS19]

On 03/08/2024 at 22:08, oldbitterandgrumpy said:

These things, in the age of social media, tend to escalate in a quick and organised way. I think it’s unlikely to happen in Dumfries.

 

On 03/08/2024 at 22:13, Monkey Tennis said:

Yes, it was more of a hypothetical, in trying to work out a stance.

Sadly it's a real possibility. I only know because a friend of my Mrs has put something up on FB saying something along the lines of "If anyone I'm "friends" with is planning on attending please unfriend me". 

f**kwits. 

 

1 hour ago, Scary Bear said:

I thought the jails were full. If they make an example of a few more, where are they putting them all?

It’s a surprise to me that there are so many further demonstrations planned. 

The solution is simple to me - when the boats arrive from across the Channel put these c***s on them and send them in the opposite direction. I know who I'd rather share a country with. 

[Aufc]

One day we will look back and question why we ever developed social media. An absolute scourge on society

[Scary Bear]

1 hour ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

 

What are we calling them? They presumably start as something before they morph into riots, attacks and looting.

Protests?

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, Scary Bear said:

What are we calling them? They presumably start as something before they morph into riots, attacks and looting.

Protests?

Potential riots.

[itzdrk]

1 hour ago, Scary Bear said:

I thought the jails were full. If they make an example of a few more, where are they putting them all?

It’s a surprise to me that there are so many further demonstrations planned. 

Rwanda

[Scary Bear]

Just now, itzdrk said:

Rwanda

There will be some spare rooms there right enough.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

46 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

What are we calling them? They presumably start as something before they morph into riots, attacks and looting.

Protests?

Priots.

Bit like Prinks before you go out for the night.

[Scary Bear]

The BBC said there are dozens of planned demonstrations/riots. Are they all down South? is there a list?