St Johnstone Vs Motherwell - The Liam Gordon Derby

[Jamie_B]

2 hours ago, ropy said:

I also thought there was a hand ball in the box late on for a Motherwell penalty.  No VAR review so maybe I saw it wrong.

It definitely hit his arm which was definitely raised above his head because he was appealing that the ball was out of play. There was a short delay after the ball went out of play next so I assume that was the check and that they had seen the ball was in fact out of play in the first place?

[RossBFaeDundee]

Sanders has my sympathies, I'd want to do that too if I saw Tony Watt.

[Steve_Wilkos]

Kimpioka was trying to keep onside against the completely wrong defender... and still scored.

[DrewDon]

What a ludicrous VAR intervention that was a for a potential Motherwell penalty at 0-0. I think they are generally starting to use it a bit better this season, but that would have been an all-timer if the referee hadn't had the sense to stick by his decision. 

[RandomGuy.]

6 hours ago, DrewDon said:

What a ludicrous VAR intervention that was a for a potential Motherwell penalty at 0-0. I think they are generally starting to use it a bit better this season, but that would have been an all-timer if the referee hadn't had the sense to stick by his decision. 

Genuinely think it was around 4+ minutes it took for him to reach a decision.

A total farce.

[The Marly]

9 hours ago, DrewDon said:

What a ludicrous VAR intervention that was a for a potential Motherwell penalty at 0-0. I think they are generally starting to use it a bit better this season, but that would have been an all-timer if the referee hadn't had the sense to stick by his decision. 

They didn't use it properly at all yesterday. Apart from the penalty that wasn't, Motherwell shouldn't have got the corner they scored from. And Sanders got a second yellow for Watt running into him.

ETA Motherwell definitely deserved to win, but that corner decision really rankles. 

Edited September 1 by The Marly

[Jastons6]

1 minute ago, The Marly said:

They didn't use it properly at all yesterday. Apart from the penalty that wasn't, Motherwell shouldn't have got the corner they scored from. And Sanders got a second yellow for Watt running into him.

VAR doesn't look at corners , does it ?

[The Marly]

2 minutes ago, Jastons6 said:

VAR doesn't look at corners , does it ?

It should.  That was the one "clear and obvious" error in the game yesterday. 

[camer0n_mcd]

10 minutes ago, The Marly said:

They didn't use it properly at all yesterday. Apart from the penalty that wasn't, Motherwell shouldn't have got the corner they scored from. And Sanders got a second yellow for Watt running into him.

ETA Motherwell definitely deserved to win, but that corner decision really rankles. 

VAR doesn't look at corners and neither does it look at yellow cards (even if it's a 2nd yellow)

[shivute]

From the vantage point of the away stand certainly looked as though the keeper touched it out for a corner. Surprised it became a talking point.

Still like has been said var can't intervene.

[Swello]

19 minutes ago, The Marly said:

They didn't use it properly at all yesterday. Apart from the penalty that wasn't, Motherwell shouldn't have got the corner they scored from. And Sanders got a second yellow for Watt running into him.

ETA Motherwell definitely deserved to win, but that corner decision really rankles. 

The corner was definitely wrong - and it was pretty obvious from near the back of the stand at least. The bodycheck on Watt was also pretty obvious as it happened right in front of where I was sitting. Sanders moved towards (and looked towards) Watt slightly and turned into him - fairly obvious body check (although I thought his first yellow was harsh given what the referee had been letting go all day). Second yellow is at about 2:50 on the highlights vid

 

The use of VAR was terrible all day though - the "penalty" which was nothing of the sort, should be shown as a guide of what not to do - it's precisely the sort of nothing incident that VAR should steer clear of completely. 

[Jamie_B]

I thought he touched it slightly and I think he’s said at the end of the game that he did as well.

I was somewhat surprised at the narrative being pushed on the radio after the game that Motherwell had “absolutely dominated” and should have won more comfortably. They had their first shot on target at the opening goal - which was a shocker from our perspective - and didn’t have another until injury time in the second half.

On top of that we had 65% possession in the first half, albeit completely ineffectual for the most part. Motherwell came out a completely different animal after the break and we totally lost control of possession until we made our own changes (which we were screaming out for at half time tbh).

After about 75 minutes I felt it was wide open and could absolutely have gone either way until right at the end when we completely lost our shit. We gave away far too many set piece opportunities and with the quality of delivery Motherwell have it was always going to be a threat.

The issue we have is that we’re far too easy to pressure at set pieces because we don’t have anyone at the back who is dominant in the air. We’re crying out for the modern version of Frazer Wright and that’s been abundantly clear since even the League Cup group stage games. That and a top flight ready goalkeeper.

If we have that there’s a good chance we don’t chuck in all four of the goals we’ve conceded in the last two games. We are actually fairly good at not giving up chances from open play - I can’t remember many yesterday other than the disallowed goal and against United it was literally only their opener that they created in possession - but we simply cannot defend set plays.

It makes us far too easy to score against and allows our opposition to do what Motherwell did in the first half - namely sit in and let us piss about in the defence and midfield until MacPherson just spoons it straight to an opponent then foul them, thus giving up another chance to heave it in to our box.

Holt and Carey coming on made us better in possession by miles, but again Levein goes for a midfield three with Carey at its base. Surely if you’re playing that set up you play Holt at the bottom with Carey advanced on the left and Smith on the right. We seem to go out of our way not to get the best out of the limited quality we do have.

Edited September 1 by Jamie_B

[Theyellowbox]

Had it been a draw, you could have argued it would have been fair enough, but to lose kind of equally feels almost the right result. Motherwell better overall, but periods where Saints were on top. Kind of been the story for each game we have lost in the league this season.

Thought Sinclair recovered well from his error to have a decent game overall. Motherwell probably could have been out of sight, but I suppose credit to Levein for the changes.

The VAR decision was ridiculous. If it takes that long, whatever the outcome, then it's not clear and obvious. Suspect if a penalty was given on field it would have not been overturned by VAR.

 

Motherwell will be fine this season and to me, Saints, Utd and Motherwell are all not a million miles away from each other, provided Saints cut out the defensive errors. Nielson was getting torn apart down the Motherwell left and you can tell he is not a right back as he kept drifting inside. 

 

[Swello]

4 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

The issue we have is that we’re far too easy to pressure at set pieces because we don’t have anyone at the back who is dominant in the air. We’re crying out for the modern version of Frazer Wright and that’s been abundantly clear since even the League Cup group stage games. That and a top flight ready goalkeeper.

This could have been lifted out of any Motherwell thread last season - just substitute Wright for one of ours. The irony isn't lost that we picked up a Saints defender to (seemingly) solve our problem.  I thought against Hearts, we scored from two set pieces due to them being totally disorganised - but yesterday we were physically dominating at virtually every set piece and Casey in particular had a field day.

[Ceiling Granny]

14 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

I was somewhat surprised at the narrative being pushed on the radio after the game that Motherwell had “absolutely dominated” and should have won more comfortably. They had their first shot on target at the opening goal - which was a shocker from our perspective - and didn’t have another until injury time in the second half.

 

I wasn’t at the match, so don’t know the reality of the situation, but in fairness this wasn’t some post match narrative. Listening to the radio this is what they were saying for pretty much the whole match (bar about 15 minutes in the second half) - that Motherwell should have been much more comfortable given the general play. So, while you might not agree with what was being said this didn’t just come out after we won. 

[Jamie_B]

18 minutes ago, Ceiling Granny said:

I wasn’t at the match, so don’t know the reality of the situation, but in fairness this wasn’t some post match narrative. Listening to the radio this is what they were saying for pretty much the whole match (bar about 15 minutes in the second half) - that Motherwell should have been much more comfortable given the general play. So, while you might not agree with what was being said this didn’t just come out after we won. 

Interesting - I had wondered if the last 5-10 minutes where we took an absolute battering had maybe coloured the judgement.

I think it would be fair to say that Motherwell had more quality where it mattered - particularly from set pieces - but I didn’t feel that aside from the first 15 minutes of the second half and injury time at the end that we were hugely on the back foot either.

[Gianfranco]

43 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

I thought he touched it slightly and I think he’s said at the end of the game that he did as well.

I was somewhat surprised at the narrative being pushed on the radio after the game that Motherwell had “absolutely dominated” and should have won more comfortably. They had their first shot on target at the opening goal - which was a shocker from our perspective - and didn’t have another until injury time in the second half.

On top of that we had 65% possession in the first half, albeit completely ineffectual for the most part. Motherwell came out a completely different animal after the break and we totally lost control of possession until we made our own changes (which we were screaming out for at half time tbh).

After about 75 minutes I felt it was wide open and could absolutely have gone either way until right at the end when we completely lost our shit. We gave away far too many set piece opportunities and with the quality of delivery Motherwell have it was always going to be a threat.

The issue we have is that we’re far too easy to pressure at set pieces because we don’t have anyone at the back who is dominant in the air. We’re crying out for the modern version of Frazer Wright and that’s been abundantly clear since even the League Cup group stage games. That and a top flight ready goalkeeper.

If we have that there’s a good chance we don’t chuck in all four of the goals we’ve conceded in the last two games. We are actually fairly good at not giving up chances from open play - I can’t remember many yesterday other than the disallowed goal and against United it was literally only their opener that they created in possession - but we simply cannot defend set plays.

It makes us far too easy to score against and allows our opposition to do what Motherwell did in the first half - namely sit in and let us piss about in the defence and midfield until MacPherson just spoons it straight to an opponent then foul them, thus giving up another chance to heave it in to our box.

Holt and Carey coming on made us better in possession by miles, but again Levein goes for a midfield three with Carey at its base. Surely if you’re playing that set up you play Holt at the bottom with Carey advanced on the left and Smith on the right. We seem to go out of our way not to get the best out of the limited quality we do have.

Sportsound went as far as to say St Johnstone players weren’t working as hard as Motherwell and looked bereft of confidence. 
 

ETA St J actually equalised when the people watching in the studio were slating them for how poor they had been . 

Edited September 1 by Gianfranco

[betting competition]

18 hours ago, rowsdower said:

St J fans are nasty people, guy is just trying to commentate on a game.

Moses knows his role.

Very funny 

https://x.com/camer0n_mcd/status/1830170046586360042?t=EJG7U3PGE6-kxEiXGake9w&s=19

[Fife Saint]

Absolutely ragin.

[Widge]

9 minutes ago, Gianfranco said:

Sportsound went as far as to say St Johnstone players weren’t working as hard as Motherwell and looked bereft of confidence. 
 

ETA St J actually equalised when the people watching in the studio were slating them for how poor they had been . 

Yeah the comments on Sportsound were really weird and had me thinking I’d watched a different game, as Motherwell definitely didn’t “dominate” all game. I think a draw was the right result with Well edging it and that’s in the end how it transpired as you scored late, but it wasn’t the battering the radio made out at all. I don’t disagree with the working hard comment though, that’s accurate of quite a few members of our team, MacPherson and Clark being the obvious 2 that should be getting flack. At the end of the day, the best player on the pitch was Lennon Miller and I’d argue he made the difference, there isn’t much between the 2 teams if you take him out of it. Especially his quality from set pieces, it gives you a real good chance every time the ball goes in the box even if the opposition can’t defend them.